Universal health care and current health care costs in U.S.

Just curious as to what other DPers think about Obama's plan for universal health care and his administration's villianizing of our current health care system. Democrats complain of the astronomical health care costs here in the U.S. and paint the picture as if no one can afford health care anymore, which is grossly untrue. Every country has its rich, its poor, and those in between, so there will always be a small minority who cannot afford basic health care. However, emergency health care is offered to EVERYONE in the United States, EVEN ILLEGAL ALIENS!

There are definitely people who fall between the cracks and face tragic debts or illnesses because of a lack of health care coverage, but does that mean everyone else should be forced to pay for those who are uninsured? Would it be more ideal to have a voluntary health care fund where charities and individuals can donate money if and when they wish instead of forcing taxpayers to pay for are they either are not using or do not want through a government-run health care system?

Your thoughts, please

 

I put this link in another thread. Here it is again. hhhmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jadstGm-foY

 

i am all or universal health care. i think the best solution is a single payer system that covers everyone.
and the current system has nothing going or it

 

The trouble with this health care issue is most americans, as they do with most things, do nothing besides pull thier party line. If it's their parties position, then it's also thier position. it makes any kind of rational discussion with them impossible because they don't think for themselves.

The fact is, nationalised health care provides better treatment across the board and is more effective. It provides the basic health requirements for everybody, which, if you want to live in a progressive society, is imperitive.

 

Over 50% in America now identify as Independent. Perhaps you should check your statistics before speaking on a subject(like most subjects) that you know little about.

Ahh, conflict within your own words, as usual. "Better treatment" and "basic health for all". You forgot to add, "at a lower cost". From the logic of those words, I can be confident you also believe in perpetual motion.

And there you have it. Here are some more statistics for you. A little under 30% of Americans call themselves Liberal(Progressive). When that number crosses the 50% line, then and only then will we as a society be ready to embrace the type of mediocrity your formerly great country does.

 

With proper health care in place anyone that is suffering from an illness, injury or is mentally ill etc can get treatment to control the condition/injury.

Don't you feel you will benefit from this?

 

Hahaha. Good one!

 

Obviously you aren't benefitting in Europe.

 

making shit up as and when you need it must be convinient, intellectually bankrupt, but convinient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states

Not my words, the words of the Commonwealth Fund report who, after surveying doctors from many different countries found British health care was "better than private health provision in the United States for quick and effective treatment". it also found that "Britain was the only country where the majority of doctors felt the quality of health care is improving and, in contrast to the United States, the NHS rated highly for fast, inexpensive and readily-available care for all".
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1564548

Who said anything about liberal? Do you know what progressive means? Look it up.

 

Your wiki statistics are outdated. Nice insult by the way. I can appreciate the irony of posting outdated statistics while calling your opponent intellectually bankrupt. Get recent data and you'll find that those declaring themselves independents in America outnumber those affiliating with either party. Even your outdated statistics show a significant(30%?) number of Independents, which completely debunks your post alleging that all Americans are mindless drones who take their marching orders from their political party. Why would you post statistics that destroy your own position?

Ah yes your "impartial" commonwealth fund. Since their impartiality was completely debunked in the very thread you linked, I suppose next you'll be posting quotes from Hamas leadership as impartial and authoritative regarding the cruel and inhumane treatment of Palestinians by Israel.

Words have many meanings. In the states, Progressives are Liberals. For someone who knows so much about American politics, I'm surprised you were completely unaware of this.

stOx... Dictionary. Agnosticism != Atheism. Look it up. Oooga Booga.

 

I love how every time you get monumentally schooled you simply deny that evidence exists which is contrary to your position. it's out of date, the word has a different meaning, while all the time offering nothing but your own vacuous little opinion based on absolutely nothing.

Do agnostics believe in god? it's a simple question.

It's actually getting to be quite creepy debating anything with you. it's like you have some kind of masochistic fetish around being humiliated by other men.

 

I love how you come back with insults when you have no facts. Its like surrendering while at the same time declaring victory. I love how you are hanging on to this Agnosticism = Atheism thing in defiance of the English dictionary. Ooooga Booga!

P.S. When are you going to own up that I NAILED your profile. I'm sure your state provided health care has councilors that could help you put that stuff behind you and move on with your life, though I would miss your crazy posts. Tell me again how we should invade Muslim lands to liberate them from their barbaric religion?

 

The bad news in a universal healthcare system is that you will be forced to pay for some things on your own. For example, despite the fact that most doctor's disagree, those paying will try to discourage women under 40 from getting routine mamorgrams done. However, they still are expected to pay. The minute we go to a universal healthcare system, if there are these forms of policies guess who pays for them then? You do.

I'm not really an advocate for our current healthcare system. But back when I was in college and we studied this topic in depth we quickly came to the conclusion that our healthcare system isn't perfect, it's just better than anyone elses.

 

Do agnostics believe in god? You brought it up, did you forget how i keep handing your ass to you on a plate? Now answer the question. Your cowardice alone makes defeating you easy, all i have to do is ask you questions and your cowardice does the rest. But it's your intellectual dishonesty which makes kicking your ass all over the forum fun.

Im also waiting for the statistics which show over 50% of Americans are independent.

 

Because I shopped around I pay 50% less this year than I had been previously for health insurance and have a better plan. I guess you might say I have what congress considers a "Cadillac Plan". In any event I pay for my own health insurance out of my own pocket and have every year I've been in business. Every year I have paid INCOME tax on that health care I buy with my own money.

From what I see, the new plan is asking me as an employer and my employees to contribute some $2500 PLUS in payroll taxes to pay for a health care plan that robs from medicare, over taxes those who have health insurance, over taxes those who have too good a plan, and only covers a small amount of the "uninsured" some FOUR YEARS later, while making us pay 10 years of tax for 6 years of coverage?

Sound confusing? Duh.

Anyway, that additional tax that I will have to pay under this new plan is more than the savings I achieved by shopping around for insurance. Imagine if I could shop across state lines.

 

The reason your question doesn't get answered is because it is irrelevant. You think arguing in circles can make black=white, but its just not possible. Stox, does a car have wheels? Does a bike have wheels? So bikes are cars! Wow, Stox reasoning! Why don't you get out your dictionary and figure out what the difference is between an agnostic and an atheist.

Keep waiting. As stated earlier, even your outdated link shows around 30% of Americans do not affiliate with either party. Obviously that statistic does not support your allegation that Americans are mindless zombies who do what their party tells them. Why did you bother posting it? Since you made the allegation, the burden of proof lies on you, and unfortunately,the facts simply don't support your statements (as usual). I presented you the same irrefutable argument in an earlier post and you either didn't read it or didn't understand it. To keep from having to repeat myself yet again, if you still don't understand after this post, I'll be happy to provide you links to the posts that have the already provided answers.

I'm sure you are vaguely aware that you are not going to win an argument with the english dictionary about the definition of a word, so I fully expect you to stick to insults and victory declarations. It seems to be what you are best at. Like a runner who imagines he has already won the race and thinks he is running his victory lap while the race is still afoot. As long as it makes you happy though, wave at the crowd, they are laughing WITH you! =)

 

The trouble with paying is that some can't afford it, can they debunk?

The USA is so out of touch with most of the civilized world, but Obama is dragging you into the 21st century. Maybe one day you'll get rid of the death penalty too

 

I know! The US is SOOOOO behind on so many things! We keep looking for a role model that does things better so we can change our backwards ways and maybe one day take a leadership position in the world!

 

The current system is not really equivalent to private health care, at least not the kind of care that a free-market provides. Either system is going to be government run, it's just that one is implicit while the other explicit, which is why I don't care much for the debate going on.

But if I had to decide between the system we have now, which is basically a system that gives power to a small yet powerful group protected by their friends who make the laws and disguise themselves as capitalists, or a system which openly admits to what is really going on, I would choose the latter.

However, I really foresee a problem with the entitlement attitude going around. The problem with entitlements of all kinds is that they only grow once they start, which means a growing dependence on government. Nobody is entitled to anyone else's resources; universal healthcare is NOT a right.

Can the government afford it? Conservative figures put as at what, some 11 trillion $ in debt? The problem with government is that it's easy to be generous with other people's money. Nothing is "free".

 

The reason you dont answer osamanation is because you know what answering will do. You have had it explained to you what an atheist is, so if you answer a question as simple as "do agnostics believe in god?" it will inevitably destroy your entirely position. atheists are people who do not have a belief in god, agnostics don't have a belief in god, therefor agnostics are atheists. In fact everyone besides those who believe in god are, by definition, atheists.

But thanks again for being a gutless coward, it exposes the fragility and shallowness of your character in a far more compelling way than i ever could.

It showed 25% were unaffiliated. a quarter is 25%. Do you want suck puppet timmy to come and show you how that works?

My claim was that most pull the party line, which you refuted by lying and making up a statistic which had no foundation in reality. I then proved you wrong by posting an actual statistic that really exists.

You're all over the place now. You start of refuting that most americans pull thier party line, then fabricate the blatent lie that most (over 50%) americans are unaffiliated, then when you are shown statistics showing 25% you claim it shows 30% and that 30% is a majority? The churning that must go on in your stomach when you try to dig yourself out these enourmous shit pits of ignorance and deciet you keep finding yourself in must be terrible. maybe if you weren't such a cowardly liar you would'nt have to keep humiliating yourself publicly.