United States Heading towards a Depression?

Astonishing isn't it. Obama blows through $USD 800 Billion US Taxpayer dollars to create 1.5 million jobs and that is supposed to be a "personal" story about Obama's character.

For the same amount of cash, he could have given those people all $533,000 of taxpayer money a peice. Gee, isn't he generous?

@Rukbat: I'm serious. If you have even one tale of Obama using his own time and money to help the needy, something he personally oversaw, I would LOVE to hear it. Even something mundane like a story about him helping a close personal friend move.

 

He's just repeating the same koolaid I hear spewed daily from the sheep on the left... It's unbelievable that at this stage of the game some people still believe that what they are flinging will stick to any wall is beyond me.

 

Never been a union member, huh? Never had a boss tell you that, although you're salaried, you get docked for coming in 5 minutes late. Never had a boss tell you that, although you're on wages, working mandatory overtime is something you did voluntarily. Never had a boss tell you that, even though you got hurt due to his negligence, he's docking you for being taken to the hospital during working hours.

Those are things the trade union movement has eliminated.

All I'm ignoring is your claim to have any knowledge of the real world.

By telling them that they get the benefits gained by the union even if they don't want to be members? What choice do the members get to decide for whom they ask the bosses for benefits?

So the entire union movement is another thing you know nothing about. You got a free public education from 1st to 12th grade? Thank the trade union movement. You can't be imprisoned for debt? Thank the trade union movement. You believe in universal suffrage (which seems to be out of favor with Republicans this year)? Thank the trade union movement.

Or would you rather work in a world of robber barons, child labor, sweat shops, piece work (that means that you get paid by the piece and the faster you work the less you get for each piece), unsafe working conditions, bosses not paying you when they don't feel like it ... That's what happened before trade unions.

You do not command a wage by hoping that your employer works against his best short term interest and gives you a raise that he isn't forced to give you. (VERY few employers understand that you get more work out of people when you give them a monetary incentive without being asked.)

BTW, what's the annual gross of your company? (You don't own one? Then you're not qualified to present the employer's viewpoint.)

Since it's evident that you don't understand the first thing about the matter, I'll ignore that joke.

That union members are capable of making their own decisions? That's my argument, not yours. They decided that if you're not a member, you don't get the benefits that the union won. The government told them that they can't make that decision.

Again, you got it backwards, because your Republican masters told you to think that way. Politics and religion are two sides of the same coin. "Accept what we say, even if reality says we're wrong, and stop thinking."

 

As opposed to the nearly 17 trillion dollars Bush 2 blew through to get rid of the WMD that Hussein didn't even have (and Bush knew Hussein didn't have at the time he lied to Congress about it)? Without Bush's tax cuts we'd still have a budget surplus (and since we wouldn't have lost jobs, the stimulus wouldn't have been needed.) We'd be about a year away from being debt-free. Now the best estimate, if we do everything exactly right, is that we'll be debt-free in about 20 years - thanks to the same party that Romney is trying to get elected.

I've heard all the Republican talking points from people a lot more articulate than you are. Repeating them doesn't raise my opinion of your erudition.

 

And this is all they have left...... When you've done such a terrible job, 1.5 million jobs is a huge accomplishment !!!!

 

What's way beyond you seems to be the ability to read numbers.

In the past 30 years, the U.S. economy has doubled in output, but wages and salaries for ordinary workers have stagnated. That increase in income went to the 1%, who had their taxes decreased. Now Romney is saying that by decreasing their taxes even more, ordinary workers will have it better. What's he basing that on? The fact that the uneducated voter will fall for it and vote for him, nothing else. There are NO numbers that show that increasing the wealth of the wealthy benefits toe middle class. But there are numbers that show that every time you do that the working class/middle class suffers. And those numbers go back almost 200 years.

It's really tough for Republicans that reality has a strong liberal bias.

 

And if OBL hadn't flown planes into the twin towers, they would still be there. It seems you are kicking up quite a bit of dust to avoid citing even a single example of how Obama has demonstrated his character in his personal life. Surely there must be something he has done you can talk about.

Tell you what, if you can produce something credible, I'll be willing to waste a little of my valuable time with you debating whether 800 billion dollars for 1.5 million jobs is a good deal or not. That is a charitable offer by any measure.

 

I'm getting my numbers from the CBO and the US Dept of the Treasury. You're getting yours from Mr. Rachel Maddow. That is the difference.

Oh, that and I can add.

 

I'll do the same if he can also explain why spending $800 billion to do what equates to a managed bankruptcy was necessary when the bankruptcy could have been accomplished without spending $800 billion.

 

Unemployment on Election Day 2008 - Barack Obama elected President = 6.6%

Democrats had super-majorities both houses 2008-2011 and had complete and unchallenged totalitarian rule of the United States Government

Unemployment on Election Day 2010 - Dems lost House to Republicans = 9.8%

Unemployment Today with Republicans in control of the House = 8.3%

Net jobs since Obama took office = -500,000 (Loss)

Total cost of all stimulus packages passed by Democrats 2008-2010 = $4 Trillion ($1.3 Trillion/year 3 years inclusive)
- Cost per U.S. citizen: $12,837

Total cost of Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003-2011 for military and related activities = $709 billion ($78 Billion/year 9 years inclusive)
- Cost per U.S. citizen: $2,275
Budget for U.S. Department of Agriculture over the same period 2003-2011 = $948 Billion

Increase in National Debt under President George W. Bush = $4.899 Trillion over eight years
Increase in National Debt under President Barack H. Obama = $5.106 Trillion over four years

Year with largest increase in National Debt under George Bush = 2008 $459 Billion
Year with largest increase in National Debt under Barack Obama = 2008 $1.413 Trillion
(Year with smallest increase in National Debt under Barack Obama = 2010 $1.294 Trillion)

History of National Debt in the United States


Soooo... what does this all mean? The facts show that the economy gets worse under Democrats and gets better under Republicans.

 

Helping the people who work for you to do a better job isn't "demonstrating your character in your personal life", it's demonstrating that you'll do anything to increase the bottom line - then use the fact that you did it to make yourself look good (to increase the bottom line even more). Romney is demonstrating that he's a self-agrandizing demagogue, so why are you asking me to show that Obama "has character in his personal life"? Let's see some "character in one's personal life" that he has to compete against. So far all we've seen from Romney is exactly the opposite - showboating his attempts to make sure that his employees do their best at making him more wealthy.

Next time he's swinging a hammer next to Jimmy Carter (for a few straight 10 hour days, not for a 20 second photo op), why don't you let us know about it? He's a lot younger, a lot stronger and a lot more fit than Carter was when he worked for HfH, but I don't see Romney putting in his own personal effort to help the poor. (And forgiving a debt that represents what he earns in a day [he earns about $269,000/day] isn't doing all that much. I've excused debts that represented a lot more than a day's work.)

 

You know 3rd grade arithmetic and how to post a fallacy. How nice for you. Will you please invite me to your 10th birthday party? That would be in 2014, right?

 

3rd grade arithmetic is all that is required to figure out that when you spend more money than you take in you're never going to get ahead.

Cricket, cricket... Still no answer to the previous challenge. I had a bet with Corwin and he won. He figured you'd make some silly childish reference to 10 year olds. I thought you were going to mention Fox News...

 

And the last Republican administration that took in more than it spent is ... NEVER!

Talk to your Republican bosses about lowering taxes to bring in more money. Even Bush 1 called it voodoo economics.

Evidently a 3rd grade education isn't enough to teach one to think.

 

That is easy to calculate. Mia collects about 50 empty beer bottles per day and he works about 22 days per month which means 1100 bottles /month. Now if you find out how much he gets for empty bottles in his state, you can find out the annual gross of his company.

 

The last Republican Administration had a budget, every year... We've not seen that for, oh, going on 4 years now... I'm sure just about every 3rd grade class in America knows that as well..

Ah, and now the circle is complete.
[h=1]Tweedledum and Tweedledee...[/h]

 

Rukbat! Welcome back man! I thought you ran away for good!

I see you were unable to dig up anything at all for Obama, so you subbed in Jimmy Carter. Sorry pal. Jimmy Carter isn't running for office.

Your argument regarding the stories about Romney's character boils down to an allegation of ulterior motive. "He did it because its good business","He did it for publicity", "he did it because 269,000 isn't much money to him".

I suppose you can speculate about his motives as much as anyone, but there are several facts about those stories that stand as evidence against your claims.

1) The stories aren't highly publicized, some of them only becoming public after some journalist finally decided to sniff around for something other than dirty laundry. Hard to call it bragging if he isn't the one pushing the stories.

2) Many of the stories involve people he knew but not people directly working with him. A daughter of a friend. Someone else who used to work at the Olympics with him. If his motive was personal gain, perhaps you can explain to me how he could personally gain anything from the daughter of a dead ex-employee.

3) Taking care of your employees is good business, but as you yourself pointed out, many business people simply don't understand that. Many people who've made a few bucks in their life run around trying to measure dicks with everyone else, bragging about the pathetic amount of money they may have earned, and asking people stupid questions in political discussions on the internet like "How much did your company gross last year", as if the answer to that question will somehow prop up their sagging self esteem.

In other words, we can no more attribute Romney's good character to his success in business than we can attribute your character to your failure in business. Personally, I'd be more likely to blame your character on your parents.

Anyway, my offer still stands. Produce me ANY story about Obama helping ANYONE on his own time and I'll be happy to debate with you the proper adjective to use when describing the use of 800billion taxpayer dollars to create only 1.5 million jobs among your political supporters.

 

Neither one has a valid argument or a clever comeback. They'd rather attempt to insult me by suggesting that I know more than your average 3rd grader, which incidentally has a greater grasp of math and history than a certain former Harvard Law Review President.

I do so enjoy watching the meltdown... The desperation and mud flinging is a sign of whats to come.

 

My sister is a Harvard Law grad. She cant balance a checkbook either.

 

I was going to join in the fun, but let me be serious for a moment.

@Rukbat, are you just fooling around or do you sincerely believe what you wrote above?

If you do believe, it, WHY? Is it an attitude you have about wealthy people, or just Romney?

If you were in Romney's situation, what would YOU do? Would you help those people about to lose their home, or not? What would be the the reason for your action or lack thereof?

I'm not being a wise-ass, I'm sincerely curious.