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United States Heading towards a Depression?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by decoyjames, Dec 27, 2007.

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  1. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4101
    ~ Ever studied macro / micro economics, Keynesian theory at the college level, for one? I'll just let the above quote on that one go but there is much for everyone to understand about economic theory that is not so difficult but for some surprisingly similar to mathematic certainties....What has really happened with our economy is the Republicans dared the Democrats to call their bluff of spending without funding after Bush and the Democrats did just that (and took their bluff).
    SEMrush
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 1, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4102
    Bush Stupid Presidency

    It is amazing that people try to blame 8 years of stupidity and incompetency that has destroyed USA on just 1 years of Obama government. If Obama is guilty of anything, is for not being man enough to break enough froom past. ;)
     
    gworld, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  3. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4103
    What's even more amazing is that several people blamed 6 years of prosperity under the Bush presidency on Bill Clinton and this amazing "surplus"...

    Irony.
     
    Mia, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  4. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4104
    You still haven't answered my question.

    gworld, What tax cut do you think you're talking about???

    BTW, I blame Pelosi/Obama for not providing middle-class payroll tax cuts to boost the economy LAST YEAR.

    And BTW, where do you get 8 YEARS from? The Republicans were responsible for the economy for only SIX years.
     
    Corwin, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  5. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4105
    And the 6 they had it during Bush are not the years it was squashed. Previous to that we had the majority post 1994 Revolution Era Congress. What Obama and the Gworlds of the world purposely elude to is that in the six years of his eight-year reign, President Clinton had a conservative Republican Congress who kept him accountable regarding America's fiscal situation at the time.

    Ya All want to talk about that surplus again?
     
    Mia, Feb 1, 2010 IP
  6. Damocles

    Damocles Peon

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    #4106
    Oddly enough, because the spending already includes his "stimulus" that too is frozen right into the discretionary spending. Essentially he says he is "belt tightening" but still proposes a record deficit "budget"...
     
    Damocles, Feb 4, 2010 IP
  7. Damocles

    Damocles Peon

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    #4107
    The "fix" is too little, too late. He spent his first months saying his stimulus was going to "create or save" millions of jobs, and wasn't even close to the mark. He warned that if it didn't pass we'd hit 10% unemployment, here we are past that mark. He projected 8% unemployment and a more healthy revival at this point, it isn't happening.

    Even with the stimulus being tailored to spend more in election years it isn't going to be enough. "Freezing" the budget next year (locking us into record deficit spending with no end in sight "saving" us 250 Billion by 2020, really, that is what he projects and we already know they exaggerate savings and earnings in their predictions), not this year, isn't even close to "belt-tightening" and spending 30 Billion we got back from the banks is going to do nothing if spending 1.2 Trillion on the same thing didn't...

    Obama's fiscal policy is leading us faster in the same path that the previous administration had started us on. Oddly enough the only portion of legislation that has done any good was the bank bailouts (repaid mostly) passed under Bush.

    Obama's policy is bad for America, and Americans are ticked. His "We won, so you shut up." early on in the debate for health care and stimulus was a mistake that will be played again and again. His little meeting with the Rs where he tried to blame them still for not being able to pass his legislation with a supermajority of both houses notwithstanding, his party will suffer for his poor leadership ability, inexperience, and poor policy.

    Going ever faster in the same direction as before is not "change".
     
    Damocles, Feb 4, 2010 IP
  8. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4108
    Thats because they were doing such a lousy job they were voted out of office. Repeal of "pay as you go" was their first legislative enactment and their biggest mistake, required for their tax cuts that insured massive deficits when repealed that allowed for "unfunded" spending - for six consecutive years....and now people are willing to vote for them again - not for long.
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 4, 2010 IP
  9. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4109
    Quite a few things wrong here, such as:
    - The economy was doing just fine until Pelosi became speaker.
    - Republicans were voted out of Congress because of Iraq, NOT because of the economy
    - (I love asking this question) WHAT TAX CUTS??????
    - "Massive deficits?" Where in blazes have you been the past year??? It's the DEMOCRATS that want to raise the debt ceiling to $14.3 Trillion

    O.K., I guess EVERYTHING was wrong with Breezy's post.

    "Pay as you go"? Sorry, are you referring to cell phone plans? You might want to tell us the name of the legislature you are pretending to refer to.
     
    Corwin, Feb 4, 2010 IP
  10. DubDubDubDot

    DubDubDubDot Peon

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    #4110
    The speaker of the house does not wield the necessary power to destroy the economy as you like to believe Pelosi has done.

    Pressure had been building for years and it finally blew in 2009. It was going to happen regardless of who was in power. The bad loans had already been made throughout the several years prior. It was time to pay the piper.

    It's a policy that forces Congress to either raise taxes or cut existing spending to pay for new spending. Decreases in revenue are also to be met with cuts in spending. In other words, it holds Congress very accountable for it's spending.... and the Republicans hate it.

    Republicans like to talk about smaller government and less spending, but they traditionally do not back it up with action. PAYGO was in effect in the 90's, and it prevented the Republican Congress under Clinton from taking part in the drunken spending we would later see throughout the Bush years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
    DubDubDubDot, Feb 7, 2010 IP
  11. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4111
    If the above is correct good for the electric and may the Democrats meet the same fate if they continue either Iraq or Afghanistan a day longer.....though playboy Bush will always be the spoiler for an unjust war (Iraq).

    Pay as you go would have required raising taxes to pay for the wars sponsored by Republicans but even without the law moral perspective for this nation was always to fund the military in times of stress but not for the conservatives who lowered their own burden while raking the working class and imperiling prosperity for the sake of Saddam Heusen.

    Cheers to the Republicans and their 41 vote minority....put something on the table and lets have the up and down vote they are always calling for.
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 7, 2010 IP
  12. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #4112
    Gentlemen, we're still only seeing the tip of this iceberg of depression. We're seen the first dead cat bounce of the stock market. We've seen surprising short-term strength in the U.S. dollar, because the Europeans have been even less fiscally responsible than US. We've seen commodity prices surge because the government has made speculation cheap with unreasonably low interest rates. We've seen short-term deflation caused by massive deleveraging, but we will see massive hyperinflation caused by profligate spending and an out-of-control trade deficit which is caused by unreasonable taxation and oppressive regulation.

    All of these, however, pale in comparison to the long-term view. Socialism didn't work in the Soviet Union, it didn't work in Nazi Germany, it didn't work in Cuba, it didn't work in North Korea, it's not working in Venezuela, and it won't work in the United States. If you really want to see the future of the United States, look at those who have tread down this dark path before us.
     
    Will.Spencer, Feb 7, 2010 IP
  13. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4113
    Really?

    Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution says differently.

    If the Speaker decides that she doesn't want a bill to come to the floor, or decides that she does want a particular bill to come to the floor, and she instructs the Committee chairmen to do either, then that has the potential to do great damage to the economy, doesn't it?

    Really? Why do the Republicans "hate" pay-as-you-go - because YOU say so?

    I can't back this up (and unlike you I will admit this), but I suspect that "pay as you go" is a farce. It's as farcical as these five or ten year budgets that Congress likes to present and then forget the next year.

    As opposed to the fall-down, slurred speech wildly drunken spending the Democrats have been doing the past two years?

    "unjust war"? Gee, wasn't a formal declaration of war passed by both Houses?

    @Will.Spencer, interesting post!
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
    Corwin, Feb 8, 2010 IP
  14. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4114
    The reality is the Speaker has more power than the President.
     
    Mia, Feb 8, 2010 IP
  15. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

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    #4115
    I'm not a fan of Obama just because I have absolutely NO idea what he was thinking this first year.

    The economy is tanking still, jobs are being lost, people are losing their homes (although some deserve it if you buy more than you make), and all he has been trying to do is pass some sort of healthcare bill. I watch the news every morning while getting ready for work, and the message was the same for MONTHS: the economy is in the sh*tter, but we are determined to pass healthcare first.

    Huh?

    The Democrats, not just Obama, were so determined to railroad the Republicans on healthcare that they totally forgot it's completely pointless to have healthcare reform if the entire nation goes broke. It's like me losing my job and going out and buying the most expensive car I can find the same day.

    Now that the Democrats seem to be dropping like flies, he's finally getting the point.

    What took so friggin' long?
     
    Firegirl, Feb 9, 2010 IP
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  16. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4116
    It's kinda sad to think that we have to wait for these people to die before anything gets done.
     
    Mia, Feb 9, 2010 IP
  17. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4117
    Supposedly, believing the concocted Bush / Chaney intelligence reports of impending Doom that an imbecile would not have fall for but for the audience they were playing to - as being the unjustified war.

    The Republicans do not like PAYGO because they are not able to cut taxes without also spending and that entails "legislation".
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 9, 2010 IP
  18. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4118

    concocted Bush / Chaney intelligence reports of impending Doom


    See also - previous administration. e.g. Bill Clinton. That's where the info came from. How soon we forget.:rolleyes:
     
    Mia, Feb 9, 2010 IP
  19. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4119
    Bill Clinton kept Saddam at bay without massive loss of life and spending and among other things maintained the balance of power in the region while at the same time balanced the national debt....all hail the Democrats.
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 9, 2010 IP
  20. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4120
    Next time remember to use one of these: :rolleyes:
     
    Mia, Feb 9, 2010 IP
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