United States Heading towards a Depression?

Barney Frank – “Fannie & Freddie” are just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgctSIL8Lhs&feature=player_embedded

 

Billions over billions are also being spent on alternative energy projects which even scientists are warning will not have any ecological or economical advantage to anybody. The money is being given to the friends of close circles of Democrats who are making themselves and their friends rich while the monkeys are in the White House.

 

I agree with Bogart. Stimulus is needed. The economy continues to shrink.

That means businesses are selling less of everything and people are losing jobs. With less people working it creates a further downward spiral causing still less spending.

The concept that giving tax breaks to small and large business owners might be the stupidest idea out there in this environment. All it does is put more money into a very few people's hands. They aren't going to hire. With less money being spent and less people working, nobody is going to buy the cr@p they sell.

Its the ultimate scheme of the combination of far right extremists.

Bogart believes stimulus money should go to infrastructure labeling several projects.

Sounds good. Look I'm not a prognasticator, and as Representative Boehner said at the start of the bailout/stimulus efforts.....we are moving in uncharted waters.

The Japanese efforts in stimulus suggested you put infrastructure money where it is needed in projects in areas where there is signficant economic activity--> ie the cities. You also spend on education and healthcare.

That last part may sound counter intuitive...but that is where the best returns were on huge levels of Japanese stimulus money were.

Spending on areas where you won't get a return on dollars invested doesn't seem to do anything.

One analysis shows that stimulus projects to date are skewed heavily towards rural areas and away from cities where the most economic activity takes place. That is counter productive on infrastructure projects....at least if you take the Japanese example from the 1990's as an example.

Of interest, it isn't the feds who are making those decisions as to where the stimulus money is going within each state. The states are making those decisions.

I believe we need stimulus. Frankly I disagree with Bogart on one part--we need jobs. I agree on a different part--we should put the money into domestic infrastructure. We should put where it will make a difference.

With the private economy shrinking, the only place that stimulus money is going to come from is the feds. Its that simple.

I agree with the number one capitalist in the USA, Warren Buffett. We need stimulus and all this debt and all this money printing is going to create a problem that we have to stay on top of.

I'd listen to the number one example of successful capitalism any day of the week before I started listening to a bunch of loud mouthed radical theoretical extremists.

 

Buffet is for government handouts because they are in his own best interest.

Government and big business are partnering like never before, in this country. The only other country where I recall big business and government "merging" like this was Nazi Germany.

Big business wants government involvement (i.e. dollars) and they want government regulation. Why? Because regulation creates a barrier to market entry. It effectively exempts them from free market forces. They technically keep private ownership, but now they face much less market pressure and they aren't allowed to fail. It's the best thing in the world for them.

For the rest of us, it means pay higher prices for lesser goods and services. It means fewer choices. It means higher taxes. It means less opportunity to create our own companies and compete with these quasi-governmental behemoths.

None of the "jobs" created by this government "activity" are "real jobs". "Real jobs" provide a good or a service to a "real customer." These jobs are just busy work which gives the impression of employment. We're borrowing money from ourselves to pay ourselves. Any child should be able to see how well that works in the long run.

So, for a little while we will see the government publish artificially low unemployment numbers. Where are we now? 9.6%? But it can't last forever. Eventually the U.S. will lose it's AAA credit rating and the cost of credit will rise. No one can live on borrowed money forever. When that happens, 9.6% unemployment will be a national goal -- and all the work camps in the world won't enable the U.S. to reach that goal.

The failed Japanese efforts at economic stimulus proved that government stimulus of the economy doesn't work, and the U.S. is following the same non-working strategy which failed for Japan.

Gentlemen, we're heading into a depression of our own making.

 

"Fundamentally Sound financially". Of course... While his gay lover was running the show all was well right?

Every time I see this guy talk I move closer and closer towards supporting abortion.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/18/frank.qanda/index.html

 

hm. Buffett has made more money for himself and for any investor that invested in his companies over an incredibly long time. What is a better definition of succcessful application of capitalism than that. I think that is your opinion.

Frankly, Will, under the Bush administration government contracting exploded. In fact giving Haliburton an exclusive contract on Iraq was an incredible lie to the public...and thereby overspent millions if not 10's, or hundreds of millions, if not billions on taxpayer funds. That was partnering between govt and big business. That was direct. The rest of this stuff is theory.

Where does govt partner w/ business? Try Russia, try China...ugh hugely successful business nation but the govt totally pulls the strings. They also have smaller business growth...because the economy has so much room to grow.

If and when the economy picks up again...there will be more money floating around and infinitely more opportunities for new small businesses to grow. meanwhile, many now huge American companies started during weak financial times. Smart operators found new ways to develop new ways to operate in changing financial times. Uhhh....take Microsoft by example.

I follow one new small industry. Over the last two years there is still private venture money going into a variety of business efforts. Its not huge...but it is definitely fueling efforts and expansion. Nobody is stopping it.

That is theory cr@p. Essentially wall street, and the entire financial industry has screamed for non-intervention by govt for decades. DECADES. Then they f*ck up every so often. Then the combination of free enterprise politico's and big wall street will again start screaming for non intervention.

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More theory cr@p. Microsoft started at the end of the 1970's and early 1980's during a miserable financial downturn in the economy. It was small, it got huge, it became one of the business behemoths. In fact there were lots of developments in the areas that microsoft came to dominate. Changing conditions are often the inspiration for new better ways to do things.

I sort of agree w/ you here, but just a little. People fixing infrastructure aren't making toys, food, clothing, or developing products/services to sell overseas. OTOH, if they improve critical infrastructure in ways that enhance private commerce that does pay off. If they build a bridge to nowhere its a big waste of money.

I seriously doubt the US has a bond rating equivalent to the highest rankings. In fact its rising credit rating s*cks. It is able to sell bonds not on the basis of its current credit worthiness but more on its relative standing amongst nations as being more trustworthy to be able to pay things off. Its more political than financial. Meanwhile, if you applied a strictly financial analysis comparing the US govt financial creditworthiness to California's right now....you'd probably find that California is significantly more credit worthy. The difference is that it doesn't print money.

When I read through the details of analyses of the Japanese efforts during the 1990's I found that some things seemed to work, others didn't, and the Japanese overspent on things that didn't work. That doesn't mean it all doesn't work...you just have to work hard to find the things that do.



Gentlemen, we're heading into a depression of our own making.[/QUOTE]

Uh, Will, last I saw we had this brutal recession that developed during the Bush administration. Of course govt could have done NOTHING. If so, I'd bet we'd be in a depression RIGHT NOW. Certainly the major components of the US banking system and the worldwide banking system were closing in on collapsing last Autumn.

 

Don't you mean under a democratically controlled congress?

 

Mia: You obviously don't know very much if anything on this topic. The administration writes the contracts with govt contractors; the agencies, the departments. Congress spends relatively little on itself when it comes to the vast scope of government contracting.

And when it comes to Congress, the GOP was in charge for 6 of eight years during the Bush administration. Look it up. Read a book. Read something.

 

Earlpearl, you obviously do not know very much about reality. Where have you been the last few years? It's pretty amazing how fast democrats can undo things. I've apparently seen it happen a bit more than you.

Don't need to look up what I've lived through. Come join us in REALITY!!

 

Ahem. There is a vast difference between outsourcing efforts to the private sector (good) and taking ownerships stakes in "private" businesses (bad), nationalizing companies (bad), and guaranteeing that companies cannot fail (bad).

In addition, I think we've fully explained the need for cost-plus outsourcing when requirements are unknown. That's propaganda is old, you need some hot fresh new propaganda.

Your idea of "hugely successful" and mine appear to differ. Compare PCGNP between those statist economies and the (comparatively) free economy we enjoyed under previous American governments.

Smart operators right now are all saying the same thing: Partner with the government to steal from the taxpayers. It's the only reliable bet for making money in the next eight years.

The U.S. government enjoys an AAA credit rating — the highest rating possible. It has held this Triple-A rating since 1917.

Moody's has already warned that the U.S. government may lose this rating. When that happens, the "cost" of the U.S. national debt will rise sharply. That could be the trigger for the "big collapse."

Government always demands more money and power to solve the problems caused by the money and power we've already allowed them.

As P.J. O'Rourke quipped, "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."

When this round of money fails to achieve the stated goals, the politicians will just demand more.

Not once will they consider that it impossible for any nation to tax and spend it's way to prosperity.

 

That is scary information from an institution like Moody's. Credit rating dropping for the U.S. would be devastating.

 

There is a lot more in store, national financial and food crisis. Happens when people take their riches for granted and let the government control everything.

 

People tend to act in their own best interests. When the Democrats were swept into power, they allocated roughly a trillion taxpayer dollars as gifts to their supporters. To get the American people to swallow this poison, they called this graft a "stimulus package."

As Thomas Jefferson stated, "The general (federal) government will tend to monarchy, which will fortify itself from day to day, instead of working its own cures."

The Democrats spent a trillion dollars to reward their supporters and ensure future support. This trillion dollars was spent buying votes for the Democratic Party and nothing else. The Democratic Party spent a trillion taxpayer dollars to fortify itself in power -- right in line with Jefferson's prediction.

Of course, the Democrats claim to have stolen a trillion taxpayer dollars for our own good. Daniel Webster foresaw that when he wrote "Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."

Remember though, this is the change we voted for. We must never forget that it was Democracy which led us down this dark path. As James Madison wrote, "Whenever there is an interest and power to do wrong, wrong will generally be done and not less readily by a powerful and interested Party, than by a prince."

Once again we come back to Thomas Jefferson, "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

We know where we are and we know where, in the absence of action, we are heading.

The only question now is what will we do about it.

 

It's tough to predict when the country as a whole will wake up and what if anything people are going to do to get back on track. The type of people supporting the current administration are generally speaking not the type able and willing to make things happen.

God help us all!

 

No, they are the ones TAKING from and living off of their government and its people.

Agreed.. God Help Us!!!

 

interesting read...

10 Reasons Employment Is Worse Than You Think.

 

It's even more hopeless than that, because even if the economy does magically improve in the short-term, the replacement jobs aren't going to be added in the U.S.

The new health care laws and torrent of new regulations coming down from the executive branch make hiring new workers in the U.S. uneconomical.

One of my companies has been in business since 1998 and has never hired overseas, until now.

At the same salary, an American worker is far more expensive than an offshore employee. Part of this is due to the cost of mandatory benefits, but much more is due to the cost of compliance with innumerable federal regulations.

Over the next few years, businesses that fail to move employment overseas will simply fail. America is not competitive in the global economy.

The American voters decided that we didn't want a unipolar world. We get the government we deserve. Never forget that we voted for this. We voted to destroy American exceptionalism. We voted to destroy Pax Americana. We voted to destroy our global economic leadership. We voted to raise the national debt from 1.3T to 1.8T almost overnight. We voted to saddle our grandchildren with the debt caused by our spendthrift ways. We voted for the highest unemployment rate in 26 years. This is the change we voted for.

 

Yeah...

we all know SARAH PALIN in the White House would have been so much better.

 

That we do.

 

I definitely concur with that statement!