United States Heading towards a Depression?

Don't blame the Republican party for this stale, out-of-date thinking.

The Republicans are on board with the big government economy. They did their best to implement it with the introduction of yet more bureaucracy (e.g. Department of Homeland Security).

The Republican Party and Bush did everything they could to guarantee Americans a comfortable lifestyle with Big Government, Big Business, and Big Spending.

So, don't go around spreading lies that Bush and the Republicans are fighting progress by trying to protect the private businessman.

They did everything they could to fight the rights of private citizens and enterprise to guarantee America's future of entitlement and dependence.

Look who got rich under Bush and the Republicans -- bankers and government contractors.

Mission accomplished.

 

Oh Bush was a big spender alright, but he didn't do much for entitlement. Are you saying he did?

 

Sure. I define all government interference as entitlements (tranferring benefits from one group to another).

Credit cards were entitled to keep us in debt with high interest rates, confusing agreements, and changing legal conditions.
The bankruptcy laws were changed because the banks were entitled to keep us perpetually obligated, without relief from the law.
The drug companies were entitled to their profits under the Medicare Prescription Benefit Act.
The defense contractors were entitled to arms sales so Bush started the Iraq/Afghanistan wars.

Bush made sure BIG business got the profits they were entitled to get. Of course, this did a great job of reducing competition and harming small, private business.

Without Bush and Republican entitlements, how could the banks, credit cards, mortage companies, defense contractors, and CEO compensation been so high?

Bush did his part to transition the country from private entrepreneurs to government/corporate bureaucrats.

He did a great job!

 

Jesus. You have no idea what entitlements are. Run with your definition.

 

Here's my definition. What's yours?
Wikipedia

Entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits because of rights, or by agreement through law. It also refers, in a more casual sense to someone's belief that one is deserving of some particular reward or benefit.[1] It is often used as a pejorative term in popular parlance (i.e. a 'sense of entitlement').

 

An accurate definition

An inaccurate definition. In a more casual sense it could mean my lawn's right to be watered.

Your ridiculous "entitlements":

• Interest rates on credit cards entitled to keep us in debt?
• Banks were entitled to keep us obligated?
• Drug companies entitled to profits?
• Defense contractors entitled to arms sales?
• BIG business entitled to profits?

The only one in the list that even involved government spending is arms sales to defense contractors, and that certainly does not qualify as entitlement spending in any traditional sense.

Anyhow, this debate is entirely academic and I just noticed in 4 posts we have changed the topic at least twice. It seems the point of your two responses to my posts is that you like neither Bush or Obama, but for different reasons. I defended Obama by pointing out he is pouring money into entitlements which help our nations poorest (a good thing) and you point out more reasons to dislike Bush (like we don't have enough already). I'm not sure how one responds to supporting Obama with an attack on Bush, but since you hate both Obama and Bush, I am going to borrow a phrase from the right wing phrase book.

Bush is out of office, we have a new president, get over it already. And what a glorious new president he is.

 

Well, if you agree with that definition, where does it say anything about spending?

I don't hate Bush and I don't hate Obama. When did I attack Bush?

You say Obama is doing something as if Bush did not. I am saying they both do the same thing so it confuses me when people try to say they are different.

They both love wars. They both love spending. They both love BIG business and banks. They both love special interests. They both love big government.

They are like 2 halves of the same car. One is the left and the other, right. But, it's the same car.

Bush and Obama are good for America. That's why things are the way they are today.

 

@ Bogart:

here is a nifty web tool for looking for foreclosure properties in the NYC area.

It would be dramatically cooler if it got regularly updated:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...4c4&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=NYT-E-I-NYT-E-AT-0520-L6

Frankly, If I were looking hard for foreclosure deals anywhere, I'd love tools like this.

 

@ earl

Interesting heat map. According to Trulia the prices in Hudson opposite Manhattan are declining approx 1.5% a month. Even with forclosures, the prices are around 200% of year 2000 levels. (1) The big issue is that a lot of the homes/buildings need a lot of work. (2) Property taxes are sky high. Taxes on an average home run around $8k on a 2500 sq. ft. lot.

So lets say you buy a three family brick apartment building at $329k. The rent roll is around 3k a month. You have to pay heating, water, taxes, insurance. You're losing about 1k a month.

Prices still need to work their way down. At this point the banks aren't ready to negociate. I have my eye on a few properties. But I think that late 2009 or early 2010 will be a better buyers market.

Interesting with the heat map, is that North Bergen is red. I've found a few nice possibilities over there. One building has a studio +garage (1st floor) and 2nd &3rd floor both have 3 bedrooms with 2 bath. The below building in North Bergen is 349k. Even at 349k the best you can do is to break even. Building like this were 550k a year ago.



Banks are going to take a beating in the New York area at least through 2010.

 

Lets not forget that Biden voted for the bankruptcy bill that meant that people couldn't wipe credit card debt off of bankruptcy proceedings and made it harder to enter bankruptcy!

And Obama appoints Geithner Mr. IMF and Federal Reserve of New York and also in charge of the bailouts during Bush era is now in charge of the Treasury! If the obama administration doesn't speak for the banking elites I don't know what does.

 

There is a county here in california next to us that just saw a 1 percent increase in housing prices (after hitting levels seen since 1999). The one Im in and another next by saw a slight decline and all 3 counties are at 1999 price levels. These 3 counties, stanislaus, merced, san joaquin are the three hardest hit from the housing bubble. Therefore, in california the housing market has hit bottom in my area. There are parts of california that haven't hit bottom, but even those parts now aren't too far from the bottom. The fact that the hardest hit in the country are now hitting a bottom tells me that the other ones not hit as hard, will be at a bottom soon. I think the housing price decline will stop by the end of this year.

I personally think the recession will end between december 09 to February 10 and then well have a brief and shallow growth and then inflation will kick in big time and well enter another recession. I think the 2nd one will be worse than the first one. I'm basing this on what happened in the early 80's double dip recession and all the money we are spending on this problem.

 

Gas is going up in price, which is a component of inflation rather than deflation and a good sign. Obama is fixing up all the Bush screw ups. Soon the price of everything including housing will be on the up and up again. Happy days are here again!

 

Wait, you were probably the first to complain about gas prices during bush era. I know michael moore (your idol) thinks that GM making gas guzzlers is the problem for their woes. Which isn't true, its actually the Unions and bad management.

Now you are cheering higher gas prices? What a hypocrite!

 

Why do you hate Bush so much?

Bush gave us a luxurious lifestyle, wars for freedom, and a booming financial sector.

Executive pay exploded along with corporate perks. Everyone had a couple of cars, lots of credit cards, plenty of home equity, and many, many foreign-made goods.

Bush made it so the US didn't have to produce what it consumed. Bush and the Republicans made it where we could either import it or have a foreign company make it for us here.

It was a great time. So, why keep blaming Bush?

 

First off, it doesn't seem fair to give Bush credit for anything good. My problem with him is very simple. He didn't spend enough. What he did spend was not spent on entitlements. I think Obama could spend more as well, but a 2 trillion dollar deficit is a good start, and I mostly like what he is spending it on. I also found the wars Obama is waging to be an egregious affront to the world community while Bush was in charge. All other things being the same, I think you have to agree the whole world is a lot happier having Obama drop bombs on civilians than George W..

 

The crash of the market is close.

 

George Bush was a great President who created a great future for this country. Future generations will look back on George Bush as a wise and prudent leader who guaranteed Democracy, liberty, and freedom for America.

Bush ensured a higher standard of living, access to health care, and a strong education system that is the envy of the world. Bush's energy policies allowed the United States to be energy independent and reduce it's reliance on Mideast oil.

Bush was a great leader. Obama wil be a great leader if he continues following Bush's policies.

It's too bad they each only get 8 years.

 

I'm not sure why you take my complaint about Bush not spending enough as a queue to proclaim your lust for the man. By the way, I think you may have over idealized the man. Lets not forget that many feel he may have had hand in planing the 911 attacks. I also don't see how you can refute my claim that Bush did not spend enough. The evidence is there in black and white.

 

The costs of home ownership exceed the cost of renting. During the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s, the average rent ratio nationwide hovered between 10 and 14. In Boston, New York, Los Angeles and south Florida, it topped 25. In Northern California, it approached 35, higher than it had been in any city, at any point on record.

When you factor in the costs of repairs, property taxes, mortgage principal and mortgage interest people are losing money by owning a home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/business/28leonhardt.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

The 1980 and 81-82 double dip recessions were caused by the stimulus spending after the 1973-75 recession. In 1979 the Unemployment rate had dipped to 5.8% so we were having relative good times.

Dick Morris is predicting that the inflation will start in 18 months. Though we could have a few years where more or less there are GOOD TIMES.

It amazing that the DOW 30 didn't hit 2000 points until 1987. People keep throwing money into it. Doesn't appear that anyone has learned for the dot-com crash, 2001 crash or the real estate crash.

http://www.data360.org/dataset.aspx?Data_Set_Id=393

 

Bush tried to increase spending by starting wars in Iran, North Korea, and possibly the Sudan and Zimbabwe.

Bush started as many wars as possible to increase spending and government debt.

But, Bush only had 8 years. Given the time, I'm quite sure he would have started the necessary wars and invasions to keep the economy booming through 2008 and beyond.