United States Heading towards a Depression?

Freddie Mac needs $6.1 Billion this month

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090512/ap_on_bi_ge/us_earns_freddie_mac_3

GM needs $5 billion this month. GM executives are selling stock like rats trying to get off a sinking ship. GM stock is now at its lowest level since 1933. GM stock has dropped to $1

Consumer spending is down for the month of April as well.

It's going to get bad before it gets worse. The $1 trillion stimulus isn't going to do much. It's a $1 trillion dollar spending bill filled with pork with little stimulus.

 

You think Zibblu still owns his shares? Or are you one of those who wonder if he was fibbing about owning GM in the first place.....

 

ROFL. I was just thinking about him this morning. I was wondering why we haven't seen him bragging about his GM shares lately....

 

Imagine if nothing had been done by either the Bush administration or the Obama administration.

Last fall more banks and financial institutions would have failed. For those who have short memories....last fall credit absolutely dried up in many many many portions of the economy. There simply wouldn't have been any sales...let alone the depressed numbers we have been seeing.

Chryler and GM would have already gone into bankruptcy. Suppliers to all the auto manufacturers would have been stopped in their tracks. Instead of annual auto sales running about 60% of an average of past (pre recession) we could be running at 20-30%. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of more workers could be out of work.

Pre Obama, the nation was running at a structural deficit. Its been running at a structural defiicit throughout the decade. Check it out.

No bailout of any sort.....less revenues, more people out of work...even greater deficits than pre recession days.

The deficit wouldn't be as high as it is now w/ Obama and Bush actions...put GNP would be a lot lower...and tax revenues would be lower --> bigger deficits than in the past.

The housing market is still going south. There were more foreclosures in April than any month (or foreclosure notices). Imagine how bad the markets would be w/out any underlying support.

The bailout/stimulus efforts are not a panacea or an instant response to magically make everything good in an instant. The nation is awash in debt...its far worse on the personal and financial institution side than the govt side (at least for now).

The one thing I see as a glimmer of hope on the deficit side is the first effort at controlling medical expenses. That is not nationalizeing medicine. It is an effort to control an element of all spending and govt spending that is breaking the backs of individuals, businesses and the govt.

Nothing concrete has been put forward yet. I hope they start to hammer that down quickly.

The 3 biggest areas of fed govt spending are Social security, medical expenses and defense. Cutting medical expenses would have a huge boon to the current looming govt deficit problem.

 

Like 99.9% of the people here, he's likely full of crap.

 

Oh you guys didn't hear about that? Don't let his blatant flip-flop go to waste.

 

It looks like based on the fact that repossessions are down but foreclosures are up that the banks are starting to unload that "700,000" foreclosures they have on the books that haven't hit the market yet. Most of the Foxnews and CNBC idiots forgot about those 700,000. Expect a major wave of new foreclosures on the market over the next 6 months!


And of course they thought consumer spending would be flat after a drop in march. It turns out only february and january were positive out of the last 10 months! I bet for the rest of the year consumer spending will go down. If you calculate the percentage of jobs lost each month lately from january to april, we are due for at least an additional 1 percent drop in consumer spending just to make up for the jobs lost percentage wise recently in the last 4 months. Thats not even counting any future degrades in the economy and unemployment. Thats why I think consumer spending has a long ways to go to drop.

 

Anyone have facts on how many foreclosures have been repurchased; what is the percentage of total foreclosures to date...and at what price relative to the loan?

Also, how much activity is there in these categories by month?

 

By the way if 2nd quarter GDP comes in at negative 3 percent as many expect that means the total 4 quarter average will come out to -4%. Far surpassing any post world war 2 year time recession. The closest I think to that was around -2 percent range annually in the 1982 recession.

We have already hit the last record of 4.4 percent change in umeployment percent from peak to trough. That was in 1973-1975 when we went from 4.6 to 9. This time we went from 4.5 to 8.9.

So this downturn has lost more jobs percentage wise and we have contracted GDP wise more than any other downturn since world war 2. Final numbers will come out when GDP 2nd quarter is released in July.

 

There you go talking up the Bush administration again. Look, any REAL liberal will tell you, NOTHING good came out of the Bush administration.

The Bush spending was just money spent lining the pockets of big bankers because they were supposedly going under from credit default swaps and threatened to take us all with them. Obviously giving money to the rich is bad.

The Obama spending helps all the small guys like the auto builders of GM. It isnt their fault that GM produces cars nobody wants while Toyota and Ford produce products that are still selling. If Obama hadn't pumped billions of dollars into GM, many of those people would be out of work and GM would be in bankruptcy.

Obviously these conservatives have a very short memory. Compare this to Bush who was handed a 260 billion dollar surplus, had a completely uneventful presidency, and managed to jack up the economy completely in his 8 years in office.

Beyond the bailout, Obama realizes NOW is the time to pump hundreds of billions of dollars into medical care to make sure those who are not currently covered will have coverage. This will SAVE us government billions spent on medical care in very little time. Additionally, unfettered stimulative spending put into practically every last Democratic initiative and social program will help dramatically improve our GDP soon. Obama took extra measures to protect us, the small guys, by requiring any state taking bailout money to put into place new and permanent entitlement programs to spend more money on us, his electorate.

All you nay sayers need to hang tight. Times may be tough now but with this new legislation, in five years we will be riding high!

 

@ abomination.....more of your totally wasteful commentary.

BTW, to the rest of you.....where would the economy be w/out the initial bailout funds and subsequent funds?

I know the govt is spending like crazy. It is running up huge debt levels.

From a purely business/financial perspective...a govt or a business might run very well in healthy times w/ 30,40,50% debt on revenues (taxes-in the case of a govt) If debt costs(interest rates) are low...it might well work. If debt gets expensive (rates go up) then it screws up everything.

US debt is rising dramatically. Who has ideas on cutting big expenses?

 

Wasteful Commentary? I'm with you man. Debt is what we need! Its not like printing our own money will raise interest rates, feed inflation, and make that debt more difficult to pay back! Its not like the 2008 debt was 73% of GDP(not tax revenues). Its not like our existing entitlement programs will go unfunded in a few years for lack of ability to pay for them. We need to create more!

What is more important than finding ways to "Cut big exepenses" is finding new ways to spend. Don't forget, like the president says, "Spending is Stimulus". As long as we make sure the money goes towards social programs that give money to the poor,increase the size of government, and bailing out union workers pensions for companies building cars nobody wants, that money will fuel a red hot economy making it an investment. It sure beats pissing money down the toilet on lower taxes, which benefits nobody but the rich in this country.

 

Yeah, let's throw cars in there.

We all know EVERYONE buys Japanese and German cars. They have no troubles and aren't suffering at all. Only the bad Big 3 are suffering.

Yep, the Big 3 makes all those Cadillacs, Jeeps, Ford trucks that no one buys and no one wants.

I can't remember the last time a Ford, GM, or Chrysler car was seen on the road. And, we all know those GMC, Lincoln, and Dodge dealerships only exist to look bad. They couldn't possibly be selling cars people are buying. Those salespeople just like wasting their time on empty showroom floors.

And, of course, the FACT Detroit is the only city in the country with a TRADE SURPLUS and the 2nd largest EXPORTER (only behind NYC) in the US is entirely fantasy.

Yep, the Big 3 produces cars nobody wants whether in the US or the world. All those dealerships, exports, and jobs are just pure fantasy.

It sure makes sense to me.

 

And they do it HERE in the US of A.

How?

They don't have all those shitty union contracts, and other forms of coercion and blackmail that mob run union shitheads bring along with it.

The highest cost to any industry? LABOR? Japaneses cars sell for the same or less and cost HALF as much to build.

Get rid of the UAW contracts and GM and company will do just as well.

 

The current Obama plan is to pay them to build cars now that are not selling so that we have a surplus of overpriced American cars to sell 10 years after the factories close up. Just imagine buying a brand new 2010 Chevy Impala for 30,000 in 2015 and no warranties!

Let's look just a few years back when the auto industry was starting to have some struggles. They offered 0% to get more buyers. Now that they used up their last bit of time they could have used to change things that would have affected them for the good long term, they are suffering even worse.

This bailout is just another way to stretch out their time, fill some pockets of the friends of the current administration and of the mafia. The same workers will still be out of a job eventually.

Maybe they should try changing it from the inside out. Fire all union employees and start building more efficient and more reliable small cars that could actually compete with Honda and Toyota in quality. Stop giving money to special interest groups. Cut pay at the top levels down.

 

Sure. Those nasty unions have kept the Big 3 from selling cars all across the country.

In fact, Japanese cars are the only ones that sell in the US.

German cars don't sell. Big 3 cars don't sell. Only Japanese cars sell because they don't have the unions. AND, their quality for every car is better than the quality for every Big 3 car. AND, every Japanese car is cheaper than every Big 3 car. And it's all because of the unions.

Besides, the Japanese are harder workers than Americans.

Yeah, the Japanese are better than Americans. That's why the Japanese companies are doing so well. It is why the Japanese economy is so much better than the US.

Japan never loses money on cars, they never lay off people and it's all because they don't have unions. Without unions, Japan is a paradise. It is the beacon for every worker in the world to go, because no unions exist.

Unions are the reason for the downfall of the Big 3. It is why no one in the country buys cars from the Big 3. Not one! Unions are the reason for the collapse on Wall Street. They are the reason unemployment is so high. They are the reason for declining wages.

The Big 3 and Unions are the reason for the war in Iraq and the housing bubble and the credit card companies.

If the Big 3 and the unions just disappeared, the country would be so much better today.

 

Showing once again what an ignorant fucktard dubmama is. I would respect him more if he actually held a job. Its his lack of experience both as a blue collar and white collar "real world" worker that is the real problem.

Their mistake? While they were doing that, they should also have been cutting costs by cutting dealers, suppliers and union controlled workers/pensions and other benefits. Unfortunately state franchise laws and union contracts forbade them from doing so.

It's just another in a long line of entitlement programs fostered by the current king of handouts. Our President. Given he's leeched off the system himself nearly all his life, it should come as no surprise that he only knows how to take, not how to produce.

Eliminate the UAW would likely fix almost every single problem. In fact, eliminating unions in every industry would likely allow employers to run profitable companies, and employees the luxury of earning a fair wage without fear or intimidation.

 

Oh please. Your right wing rant is filled with misstatements. Unions keep big 3 from selling cars? Last time I checked Ford motor company was rock and rolling, along side Toyota and all the foreign car companies building cars in the United States. GM and Chrysler on the other hand have been sucking ass.

There are many causes but I cant imagine you missed the nearly 5$ a gallon gas a few months back. You couldn't give away a Detroit gas guzzler. Perhaps your right wing mindset doesn't care much for the environment, but when gas hit 5$
a gallon, the whole nation suddenly became eco-aware because it hit their pocket books.

Regarding the top selling GM products, I honestly don't see a lot of Buicks, GMCs, Pontiacs, or Saturns on the highway as compared to Toyotas or Hondas. Perhaps it is just me. To be honest, what we see on the highways is irrelevant. We know GM cars arent selling because GM is telling us their cars arent selling.

Why are you conservatives so anti-American? Sure the Japanese are outselling their cars inside the United States, while hiring American labor to build their cars here, but you don't have to call us inferior. We realized long ago that union labor is better for Americans. If that means our cars are more expensive to produce, that is a cost the American consumer should pick up! Its conservatives like you buying foreign cars that are causing the demise of great American companies like GM. Thankfully, the president is sending your taxpayer money to GM so you are going to buy American whether you like it or not. I hope he also levies some heavy taxes on all foreign car companies operating in the United States who don't hire union. Our workers deserve it, and our citizens should pay for it!

Jesus. Typical right winger. We all know that stuff is all George W Bush's fault. Think of something original to post!

 

64% of Americans said today that its time to start blaming the current administration for these problems...

 

Yeah I know. Where have all the Jeeps and GMC's gone. You never see Dodge or GM trucks anymore. They aren't on construction sites or Home Depot because the Big 3 destroyed the housing sector.

You don't see Big 3 trucks at mining, milling, or manufacturing sites either. The Japanese and Germans took the truck business away from the Big 3 because their trucks are more reliable and so much cheaper than Big 3 trucks.

I believe the Big 3 and the unions caused the credit crisis too! So, now people can't afford to buy Big 3 trucks on credit anymore.

Gas prices are irrelevant. Everyone knows it's all because of the unions that gas guzzlers sold like crazy from the Japanese but not the American car companies. The unions caused people to buy Japanese gas guzzlers at $4+/gallon and not American gas guzzlers.

I know. Everywhere in the country, especially the South, loves buying Toyotas and Hondas. Yeah, GM cars have never sold, EVER! No one buys Corvettes or Camaros. Police and government never buy Ford or Impalas. Why? The Japanese cars are so much better than union-made American cars.

That's why you always see cheaper Japanese police and government cars and not union-made Big 3 cars.

Yeah, the unions have always caused the Big 3 to suffer, for the last 50 years. The unions told the Big 3 what kind of cars to produce, when to produce, what parts to use, and fuel economy. It's all the unions fault! Why can't you see that?

We all know the American higher wages means less money to spend into the economy and to pay for higher-priced cars. Lower wages from Japanese car makers is so much better than higher wages from American car makers.

That's why CEOs want to be paid less, not more. Because every worker knows it's better to get paid less money for an hour of work than more. We all know that.

Yes, thankfully the President is protecting the true victims in all this, the banks and the credit markets. We all see that the credit markets are more important than the Big 3 and other producers and workers.

Fortunately, with the trillions going to bank bailouts, it will save the Big 3. Maybe some will go to GM and Chrysler, but they don't deserve it if all they're going to do is save overpaid union car workers and pensions. You see Wall Street is underpaid but the unions are overpaid. So, Obama is doing right by putting more money in the banks.

Only the banks deserve any help. We know they really power the economy. If only the auto unions hadn't crippled the banking system.

I never said that. Opening US car markets to the Japanese while the Japanese close their markets to the Big 3 is a great strategy for keeping the Big 3 unions honest and keep their overpaid, lazy American hands doing an honest days work.