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United States Heading towards a Depression?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by decoyjames, Dec 27, 2007.

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  1. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2881
    Are you getting your info from Ron Paul forums or something? Reason I ask, is your post is almost verbatim some of the post on the ronpaulforums.

    In any event, the US is not the only country to drop the gold standard. And the US has dropped it more than once, none of which had to do with war or blame.SEMrush
     
    Mia, Oct 23, 2008 IP
    SEMrush
  2. PioneerGold

    PioneerGold Well-Known Member

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    #2882
    I've never heard of that site before.

    It almost seems as if you can't accept that the government, the Congress, the President, and the banking system are corrupt as any Soviet government.

    You make excuse after excuse while things just keep getting worse.

    As long as Americans like you are around, things will never be good. There will only be periods of pain and less pain.

    Fiat currency is broken, whether Euros, pounds, yen, or dollars. The US is trying to use oil to back its dollars (petrodollars) but that requires waging war in the Middle East to control oil reserves (which is expensive).

    While Washington and Manhattan are thriving, the rest of the country goes through periods of pain and less pain.

    There has been no wealth creation in this country over the past decade. All these trappings of so-called wealth have come at the price of deteriorating infrastructure, weakening manufacturing, and reduced employment (underemployment/unemployment).

    Keep thinking this country is doing well, and see how that solves any problems.
     
    PioneerGold, Oct 23, 2008 IP
  3. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2883
    What you fail to realize while you are busy laying blame on the "current" administration for the blunders of failed policies of the entitlement hungry democrat of the great society.

    Look up Betton Woods. It was a formidable gold standard whereby the dollar alone was convertible into gold.

    In short it means that foreign countries held our dollars in the belief that they were "good as gold".

    The "war" you refer to, I assume is Vietnam and not the "War on Terror".
    I mention Vietnam because that war, and the Great Society required enormous government deficets that had to be monetized.

    So when those foreign countries realized that there were more dollars than gold, they began to demand their gold. Subsequently the US and as a result the US and its economy defaulted. The end result there was the stagflation of the 1970's.

    Each one of these blunders can be traced back to democrats and their liberal beliefs, socialist ideology and undying need to tell you how they can make your life better for you.

    I've already eluded to the fact that things like the CRA, Jimmy Carter, then Clinton and the Freddie/Fannie creation and manipulation is at the very least more than partly to blame for the problems facing Wall Street and the Housing Market.

    To deny this is to base logic and reason on pure emotion. Blaming George Bush or John McCain for this mess is something that is motivated by hatred, ignorance and a unwillingness to face reality.

    Are there Republicans to blame? Sure. Are there problems with this current Administration, of course. You'd have to be an idiot to deny that, as much as you'd have to be an idiot to believe the hogwash that is being shoved down your throat from the likes of MSNBC, CBS, NBC, CNN, ABC, etc.

    And to the contrary, many parts of this country, ARE doing quite well. Can always do better, but they are certainly not collapsing. The industries that are not, are not for more reasons then have to do with the gold standard, government policy, consumer confidence, or the housing market.

    This too shall pass.
     
    Mia, Oct 23, 2008 IP
  4. PioneerGold

    PioneerGold Well-Known Member

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    #2884
    ^^^^^^^^

    You completely missed the point of my post.

    Who cares about ideologies, liberal/conservative, Republican/Democrat.

    They are basically the SAME in the US political system!

    I guess that's the fundamental problem in recognizing the problem. You think it's a question of political party, while I say it's a question of the centralization of power.

    The checks and balances seem to be withering away in this country.
     
    PioneerGold, Oct 23, 2008 IP
  5. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #2885
    Are you calling yourself an idiot? :rolleyes::D

    I have also heard that Jimmy Carter farted couple of times while he was in White house and that is the reason Bush has failed in everything he has done and made the country bankrupt. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Oct 24, 2008 IP
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  6. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2886
    No, I am just trying to provide a useful contribution to the diatribe without being insulting or rude like your posts suggests.

    How old are you? Can you please stop posting such nonsense? It's a waste of everyone's time to look at a subscribed thread that has a response like this in it that adds nothing of use to the discussion. Its not even mildly entertaining, assuming you actually meant it to be.
     
    Mia, Oct 24, 2008 IP
  7. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #2887
    ABC network posted some interesting data on which parts of the country are facing a recession and which aren't. It is somewhat regional and somewhat related to where the mortgage crisis has hit the worst.

    Take a look at Texas and move due North to the Canadian border. These are the states that are most recession resistant. The energy business has been strong. It has been boosting jobs and hiring. (Hope that continues in light of dropping gas prices).

    Areas with the worst numbers of foreclosures are most hit by recession. Areas such as large parts of Southern California (and wide additional areas through the state) and Florida are suffering amongst the worse. Geographically more of the nation is suffering than is reasonably well off.

    Its probably a moving graph as different regions react differently. New York was a state shown as not having been hit the worst. Probably has had less foreclosures.

    On the other hand, continued firings in Wall Street will dramatically impact the state, and certainly the close in NYC suburbs.
     
    earlpearl, Oct 24, 2008 IP
  8. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2888
    Earlpearl, do you have a link to that. That's interesting data. I've seen stuff like that before, and it is interesting to compare/contrast that information on a statewide and region wide basis as it concerns things like views about the economy, the current presidential election and how others in different regions view the current administration.

    I for one can tell you that where I am, building is still going on. New subdivisions, new places like Target, Best Buy, and so on going up. That would be some really interesting data to see.
     
    Mia, Oct 24, 2008 IP
  9. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #2889
    I am just pointing to how idiotic your posts are, Jimmy carter farted and that is the reason 30 years later Bush has failed with everything he has touched, including bankrupting his own private (daddy) companies. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Oct 24, 2008 IP
  10. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

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    #2890
    I really don't think Mia was stating that Carter caused any of Bush's failures. I think he is just sick and tired of people trying to blame Bush for every single thing that has gone wrong, playing the partisan lines. Both Republicans and Democrats has a part in our financial failures and Bush shouldn't be the scapegoat. I'm in no way stating Bush was a great President, but people (cough cough Pizza) are so quick to put the blinders on and blame Bush so the Democratic party doesn't look bad. Both parties need to admit failure and stop shoving the responsibility on the other....
     
    Firegirl, Oct 24, 2008 IP
  11. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2891
    No, you are making nonsensical posts and then follow it up with an insult and name calling. There is no value in posts like this.

    That's pretty much my point in a nut shell. I've yet to see anyone that is pro-Obama or pro-McCain come out and say, let's fix the problem. Its all a bunch of finger pointing, more of the same, and generally, BLAME BUSH FOR EVERYTHING.

    Who cares. Bush is gone in 3 months. Instead of blaming, why not look at the root of the problem, and it does emanate from some failed policies starting back during the Great Society, including the creation of entitlements, removal of the gold standard, creation of government backed loans to people that can or will never pay them back. All of which as continued to balloon.

    Bush just happens to be president as the shit comes to head. I can no more blame Bush for Fannie,Freddie, than I can for WWII. Though others will try.

    We're looking at more than half a century of failed policies that neither side has been able to end.

    Everyone seems to forget the bigger picture as it concerns the scope of our debt and it is related to the 60% of social programs that we just can no longer afford to support. Not the war, not the housing market, not the financial markets, not even earmarks.

    Its the 60% of social programs that our government, economy and wealth producers cannot sustain.

    Why has no one brought up the entitlement programs that have increased, which ads to our debt? Why do people seem to think that our debt exists and grows because mean nasty wealth producers like myself are not paying enough?

    It exists because we spend more than we make. Raising taxes will not solve that. We've already proven that even though we brought in more revenue under Bush's tax cuts but still spent more.

    Does anyone honestly think that raising taxes is going to reduce our debt when we spend more than we take in?

    This is not rocket science here. Anyone with an income, a family, a home and a budget knows how things really work.
     
    Mia, Oct 24, 2008 IP
  12. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #2892
    And some how you were praising Bush for all the "good" things he was doing until couple of months ago, including he increasing welfare which made it possible for you to buy a house. :rolleyes:

    so , 8 years of Bush presidency has been completely useless and he had no effect on turn of the events. :rolleyes:

    This is exceptionally funny from some one who couple of years ago was kissing Bush's A*S for giving him better welfare check and now thinks he is so mighty because he probably earns 2-3 thousands a month.

    And some how you manage to be utterly clueless. :rolleyes::D
     
    gworld, Oct 25, 2008 IP
  13. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2893
    Do you ever have anything useful to contribute to the discussion? Let me answer that for you. NO.
     
    Mia, Oct 27, 2008 IP
  14. guru-seo

    guru-seo Peon

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    #2894
    The American economy and politics are like a chain, if one link breaks it screws up the chain. Well guess what... G.W. Bush IS the WEAKEST LINK!!! Good Bye!
     
    guru-seo, Oct 27, 2008 IP
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  15. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #2895

    There is a video on abcnews from October 21. Its not what I saw on the morning news on the 23rd or 24th.

    What I saw was a graph of the nation. It showed two types of impacts; foreclosures and recessionary impact by state.

    Take Texas and move due North to the Canadian border. Those states were doing relatively better with fewer foreclosures and less recessionary impact.

    The other data was mixed with states such as Florida, California, and Nevada having been hit very badly.

    More of the country was tending toward recession than not.
     
    earlpearl, Oct 27, 2008 IP
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  16. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2896
    I think it would be even more interesting to see data that displays whether the banking industry was more apt to lend to questionable people in the affected areas than not.

    I also wonder if there were/are other factors that have affected the buying/lending habits of Americans by region. I know that where I live the majority of the homes in foreclosure are either second homes, or homes owned by flippers that have now skipped. A great many of the homes in the resort town I live in are owned by snow birds, and people with "Summer homes" and "vacation properties" here.

    Overall, I've not seen a huge decrease in home values nor have I seen an end to new home construction. However, I have noticed that new construction seems to be offering some amazing deals. I looked at a house recently that is new construction that is selling for the base asking price of the model, with the land included for free.

    There are also some condo developments here that include cars like BMW's and nice cross overs included with the purchase price.

    I was able to secure some low interest financing today on a refi, so banks are still lending money. The key is, you need to have some vested interest, money down, money in the bank and good credit. Imagine if those rules were always enforced?

    Taxes here still blow, and if the state continues on the path to 100% lefty, we are in for a 10% sales tax and about 37% increase in our income and property taxes state wide.
     
    Mia, Oct 27, 2008 IP
  17. PioneerGold

    PioneerGold Well-Known Member

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    #2897
    In one of the most depressed states and most depressed cities in the country, as we speak, they are building half-million to million-dollar homes in an area with one of the highest poverty rates in the nation, high foreclosure rate, low property values, poor city services, while credit is tight, the stock market is collapsing, and inflation is high!

    Why? Because that is where the banks and the government want investment to go!

    Now, when the people are suffering, and you are spending what scarce resources you have on luxury items, it does not send the message the priorities of this country are in place.

    You keep saying things are fine.

    The US, as a whole, operates like a bum who just found a bundle of cash. Instead of buying the necessities (roads, bridges, ports, tunnels, rail, dams, etc.), it is spending it's money on fancy houses, jets, vacation trips, luxury cars, and sports and concert stadiums, and of course, wars.

    Sure, it looks great now. But, 10 years down the road, how does any of that make the country stronger, better, or more desirable to live/work/learn?

    How does it make retiring/saving/investing any easier?
     
    PioneerGold, Oct 27, 2008 IP
  18. rochow

    rochow Notable Member

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    #2898
    Because right now they feel on top of the world. The 'further-est' most people look into the future is "whats happening this weekend".
     
    rochow, Oct 27, 2008 IP
  19. Crazy_Rob

    Crazy_Rob I seen't it!

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  20. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #2900
    debunked, Oct 27, 2008 IP
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