United States Heading towards a Depression?

All the stuff you said and I didn't copy is very relevant. As far as the line I copied.

...... F' em

Couldn't happen to a better guy.

 

Paulson says foreign banks can use U.S. rescue plan

Why are American taxpayers funding insolvent foreign banks? What are they getting from this deal? There has to be something??? Maybe the deal is that foreign central banks should continue to prop-up the USD in exchange for the bailout..


Default by the US government is no longer unthinkable

It would be a disaster. The Neocons have destroyed America...

 

I think the US government is banking on the fact that if things rebound, it stands to make a phuck ton of money off this deal.

I hear all this talk about comparing the US to France, saying that the US is reverting to nationalizing the banking industry, etc., when in reality the US government created this mess to begin with, staring with their own governmental bodies, Fannie and Freddie, and perpetuated by two of our nations worst presidents, Carter/Clinton.

In reality, I'd rather see $700 billion spent fixing the problem , than sent overseas in the form of terrorist oil purchases.

 

It turns out that Lehman Bros. had a financial position with the current ownership group of the Watergate Hotel and buildings which are going through a massive and expensive rehab and updating.

Ahhhh.....the Watergate....the building that took down Richard Nixon for lying to the American Public.

Nixon...lying to America....financial misdeeds....all connected thru the Watergate. Somehow there is something telling about that connection.


heheh....I'm sure ACea could explain it to all of us.

 

Things are changing now.

No longer are we living in a timeframe where the banks can pull our society from under our feet like happened in the 30's... one of the main reason's for this is the digitization of everything.

Because of the extremely fast integration of the internet, people have become the most powerful decision making force on this planet.

Sure, the us dollar could drop, but that won't matter as the internet is creating is own economy/society... that even if the us did go into a depression... if you could still get on a computer, you'd still be linked to this society/economy... so unless the whole world collapses and all internetz go down, no where can collapse anymore socially or economically anymore and is in fact forced by the virtual society to excel out of its current state of poverty

or thats how I think it'll work out

 

To wastefully spend lining pockets of the already filthy rich, while complaining that the poor need more benefits....

 

$700 sure is cheap.

 

Mia... come out of the closet... you closet socialist.

 

The commercial real estate financing business has dried up. That is not a catastrophe but it will lead to more problems.

Its a function of the amazing unknowns in the financing/bank industry. They aren't making loans to one another. None of the institutions knows whom to trust, which institutions are solid and which aren't.

If the financing for buildings dries up to the extent that buildings can't get financing for improvements that will have a far bigger impact on the economy. It will crush new leasing and put an enormous number of people out of work; everyone involved in building out new space, designing the plans, etc. It will double the impact of loss of jobs from a drying up of the residential construction and improvement business.

 

People like you are mind blowing.

At first, you were claiming everything is fine (even with high gas prices, high inflation, and bank bailouts).

Now you realize how wrong you were, yet don't want to place responsibility on the current Congress and President.

It's people like you that keep making this crisis worse because you won't face facts.

 

Actually the bush tax cuts may have had more to do with this than anything Clinton or Carter ever did.

http://hnn.us/articles/41985.html

Huge, extended tax cuts for the wealthy may have fueled the bubble. Combine that with a bad job done on the part of the companies who give ratings to the securities, capital being pumped in from China(because of our trade deficit, they had a surplus and were also helping to fuel the bubble), and people giving loans who really had no business giving loans to people who had no business getting them.

Maybe the hands-off approach to the market that has been encouraged by mostly republican presidents like Reagan and Bush is a bit like giving a shotgun to monkey.

Sorry. I like to think of myself as a good capitalist, but this crisis seems to make it pretty obvious that the free market is capable of blowing itself up if you let it.

 

Actually, what is mind blowing are people that refuse to listen and read.

I never said everything was fine. I said I do not believe in doom and gloom. And for the record, for many of us, things are not only fine - they are better than they have ever been. The sector of business I am in is booming and has been under Bush.

Gas prices are not that high, historically. But then I'm likely much older than you and have been around longer to realize this reality.

Do you even know what the inflation rate is right now? My guess is no.

In 1992

[SIZE=+1]What cost $20.00 in 1991 would cost $24.39 in 1999. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]What cost $20.00 in 1999 would cost $24.67 in 2007. [/SIZE]

Seems pretty consistent to me.

The banks being bailed out are governmental bodies formed by FDR/Carter, and perpetuated by Clinton. You need to brush up on your reading:

Read the following study "Report of the Special Examination of Fannie Mae" from: www.ofheo.gov

There you will find the corruption that made people like Raines and Gorelic millionaires several times over. Its there you will see how they falsely overstated the earnings of the nation's biggest home lender so "senior management maximized the bonuses and other executive compensation they received, at the expense of shareholders."

Enjoy. Its some pretty easy reading.

Wrong about what? What are you talking about? The place the responsibility belongs is quite evident. People that lived responsibly and used their tax cuts to buy homes and feed their children are not the ones responsible for this mess as you would have us believe.

The fact is that democrats created a perpetuated this style of waste, greed, and thievery. How on earth the current president was able to create a downward spiral in a group of organizations that were designed to spiral downward from the start is beyond all reason.

Not everyone is suffering here. That point needs to be made quite clear. Not all of us did as you obviously did and followed the sinking ship of greed.

No, its people like you that deny reality. I pay my bills, I don't spend more than I have. Its people like you that overspend money you do not have in the hopes that the government will rescue you by raising taxes on people like me that earn the money.

Interesting premise, however it fails to point out one small fact. More tax revenue has come in under the Bush tax cuts than did prior to making the cuts.

Let me be a bit more remedial for people like Pgoldy. We took in more money by cutting taxes. Had we not cut taxes, we would have less revenue. How exacxtly is that better?

Many are just now beginnging to realize the damage done by 8 years of Clinton, and they want to shift that blame to the current administration out of utter frustration and denial. The fact is, many of us that are doing well now, suffered early on by getting fucked up the ass by Clinton with his retroactive tax, and other hikes on our income. As a result, believe me you, many of us have found more inteligent ways to place our income as a result.

I welcome any polster to conduct the following poll to prove my point. Ask 5,000 Americans who are in peril what party they belong to. Then look at their credit history and income and see if they were living beyond their means.

Then lets get back to what this nation once was. A place where individuals strove to take responsibility for their own actions, not blame whoever is in office at the time.

 

Unless its food or energy, right?

The good news is, crap you don't really need is almost as cheap as ever. Food, education, medicine, those are on double-digit price growth trends - energy is even further out of the world - but forget it!

We all know its how often you can upgrade furniture that makes or breaks a household budget.

 

I've lived through much tougher times. If it comes down to feeding my kid or buying crap, I feed the kid. The trouble is, people in America bitch and think they are poor if they only have 2 TV's, or have 3, but one's not a Flat Screen.

I love the people that bitch about living pay check to paycheck, yet still find a way to buy cigarettes and NFL ticket. The US has become home to nothing but a bunch of whiners.

 

So, you want to make this a political issue. What? You think I like Obama over McCain or McCain over Obama.

You just don't see this crisis is something which supersedes political parties and personal agendas.

That is what is so mind-blowing.

You are finger-pointing, stereotyping, and playing politics while the financial sector is collapsing before everyone's eyes.

You said you don't believe in doom and gloom. Great advice for the Titanic, the Great Depression, or any kind of emergency.

How someone can see Wall Street wiped out in the span of 8 months (two firms gone which were over 1 century old) and think things are fine is amazing to me.

But, like I said before, you know the bottom hasn't hit as long as people like you are still around.

It means I still have time to get my financials in order before the inevitable happens.

 

Like I said, read. You've clearly got a lot to learn. It's not a political issue. Its a governmental mis-management issue.

Read the report I posted a link to.

 

Your link is wrong. I'm not sure what your point is.

The report I read says there was massive mismanagement at Fannie Mae. Yet, the government, Bush, Congress did nothing to correct it.

Is that what you are saying?

To me, this is irrelevant. I have two points to make...

First, Bush and Congress have lost all credibility (it should have been gone with the so-called war on terror, then the Iraq war, then Katrina, and now this).

Second, the crash is coming. It can only be delayed.

You seem to disagree with both these points.

My premise is the government is mismanaged. It does not have the interests of American citizens at heart. It does not reflect the will of the people/voters.

I think... you agree with my premise but you disagree with my conclusions.

That is what I call denial. And, it's going to be an expensive indulgence when the inevitable occurs.

But, keep the faith so I can have a chance to get my money to safety.

 

Its not the link. Its the report.

Did you even read it?

The mismanagement, interestingly enough was aided by a good portion of Obama's current presidential team, Clinton's former Employees and democrats too numerous to name here.

I'm not saying anything. You need to read the report.

Anything that is counter to your claim is irrelevant. That's a nice way of thinking.

Congress, yes... But look who runs it. Yes, Bush caused Katrina.... His nasty weather machine. How dare Bush not only cause death and destruction, but he took it further and stopped running New Orleans. God forbid the leaders of ones one community, city, and state govern themselves. How dare that Bush not run Louisiana. Bad, bad Bush. When you took the oath of office you know it included doing Nagin's job.

Words of wisdom.

Exactly. And "government" IS fannie and freddie.

That my friend is the first thing you've said correctly all day.

Now, that is what is called reality. Read the report.

Your money is safe so long as you do not put it in a bank. Its pretty much always been that way. Use credit unions.

 

Yeah, expecting the President to show up and offer support and do some followup to make sure the city actually recovered is too much to ask the highest elected leader in the land.

Makes perfect sense.

I guess only New York/Manhattan deserves the attention of the President.
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I don't get what is so important about the report. I visited your link and read the report (384 pages).

Now what?

It just makes my point that Bush and Congress did nothing to prevent, stop, or slow the inevitable collapse.

Incompetence at its finest. Yet, no one talks about jail sentences, impeachments, or indictments.

I agree Obama's team helped cause this situation. In my opinion, they are all a bunch of crooks that need to be in jail.

It appears you see everything I'm seeing, it's just you think this is fine while I think it's gloom and doom (in your words).

So be it.

 

The FED at 1:00 am has supplied $30 billion dollars to money markets overseas to the central banks of Australia, Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

Last week, the Fed and other foreign central banks pumped as much as $180 billion into money markets overseas.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080924/fed_credit_crisis.html

It appears that financial crisis is becoming gobal

The hardest part to me anyway is to put a price on a property. Comparitive values are 'out of wack' due to the housing bubble and crash. Even looking at the rent roll may not give you an accurate valuation of the property. A recession may cause a decline in rents or vacancy.

Whatever value you place on a property the question is whether can you sell it at that price?