What about the people who are not "of color". Are those stories somewhat less sad or tragic? Perhaps those not of color are somehow responsible? You think the people "of color" who are merchants really feel the people who are "of color" doing much of the looting are part of "their own"? My guess is that they feel about as much connection to the looters as I feel to some toothless hill billy living on welfare in a trailer who robs, steals, and molests his children. If a white cop wrongfully shoots a unarmed black man, he carries the shame and the blame. If the police department fails to indict that man, they share the shame and the blame. Hard to see how the looters do not own 100% of the blame for every action they have taken to this point, regardless of whether that action was taken against a person "of color" or otherwise. They are an embarrassment to every law abiding citizen who is "of color", and those are the people who should be speaking out loudest.
O_Nation: The looters are responsible, no matter whose businesses they attack, people of color or not of color. meanwhile, as with other riots of this kind, including the ones I witnessed many years ago there are deeper reasons for these outbreaks. Those reasons also have to be dealth with.
I would be lying if I said the vandals and criminals were all non-white. In fact, it seems that Manchester's problems were instigated by local residents who are exclusively white. However, this is just one city. All others have been the opposite. Of all the excuses and motives the criminals have; of all the solutions and answers the law abiding have, I close my eyes and truly sigh to the core of my being hearing nothing of individual responsibility to protect and defend. Not once have I heard any victim or politician claim that much of the devastation and murder could have been avoided if those with property had a means of proper self-defence. Instead, they've relied on broom handles, pipes, pieces of fencing, bottles and baseball bats. The media continues to demonise those who refuse to lie down and cower as vigilantes, continuing the decades of conditioning that human lives are worthless. All I hear now is how more police should be put on our streets and how spending cuts should be reduced to fund this. I have a better solution, something that would not jeopardise the cuts or logic: forget the police officers. Allow the riot police to use appropriate methods of defence and encourage all law abiding citizens to defend their lives with the same means. The simple truth is that the emergency services cannot prevent or deter crime. We should all therefore take responsibility for ourselves. The Koreans during the LA race riots knew this and protected themselves and their livelihood better than any propaganda could portray the police as intending. Ask yourselves this: if these mindless rioters had stormed parliament or 10 Downing Street, how quickly do you think "non-lethal" and then lethal weapons would've been deployed?
Now here I agree with you wholeheartedly, though I think we might disagree as to what those reasons are. Riots in Greece, for example, are what you get when you have a whole bunch of people dependent on their nanny, the state, and the state goes broke paying their ever increasing demands. Riots in Los Angeles are what you get from a community that is 60% unemployed, badly uneducated, with it's community leaders pushing a race based anti-personal responsibility agenda. Your failure to goto school is someone elses fault. Your failure to get a job is someone elses fault. Sure everyone in the neighborhoods around you is going to school and getting jobs, but not you, because they hate you because of the color of your skin. It actually doesn't sound too far off from what the Islamist leaders are feeding to their people. In the mean time, successful educated blacks are still often characterized as uncle toms, just as moderate and successful Muslims are called non-Muslim by the extremists. But hey, at least Al Sharpton has a new high paying job at MSNBC.
If you have a right to treat me like shit then I want the right to destroy your buildings. Where's the argument there? Now I'm not agreeing with the theives stealing stuff in the slightest (as they are simply theives that will be dealt with accordingly). I do agree each is responsble for their actions and they have jumped at an opportunity which they will be sorry for later, but the reality is every business will be compensated and this is expected to now increase employment. What's the big deal now? Sure, let your fear guide you. The right-wing are now pushing for more of a police state and you'll be pushed like pigs to the slaughter. If you can believe a government flew a plane into a building and killed 3000 people to dupe people into increasing security then it's only a slight step further to question where this riot really began. I don't believe it was started in England.
They are enjoying their stolen stolen stuff, I don't think they are sorry at all. Those who have been arrested will be released soon because the prisons are full, they knew this beforehand. Now if you cut the hand of the thief, you won't have to worry about him stealing again nor would the tax payer be responsible for paying £40,000 per year to keep him in a cosy prison. I'd say cut their hands off! Might sound extreme, but it saves the tax payer money and the thief won't steal ever again.
I think you could believe in ocean front property in Las Vegas, and I have some to sell you, and those like you. Interesting contrast. Middle east, government cuts off limbs to stop thieves, so everyone fears the government. US, everyone owns guns, so everyone fears the gun owners. Boy, tough choice.
"No fear" is what drove these scum-bags, they knew nothing would be done to them. If you know your hand will be cut off, you are not likely to steal...again this is way too extreme for you guys, it may take another 1000 years for you to actually understand that you need to deter people from committing crimes, and punish criminals accordingly, giving them a nice cell with free food/drink and tv is not a punishment.
Sure you have the right to destroy my buildings just as i have the right to put a slug in your brain if you try to do so . If you don't like equality and want "special" funds and attention then you should move to Antarctica .
What I find deeply disturbing is that I actually agree with you. Without deterrence, criminality runs unchecked. What we disagree on, is how. For the record, the employment rate has a much more direct correlation with the crime rate than the number of police on the street, armed citizens, or any type of draconian punishment you can think up.
You HAVE to be kidding. You think a measly promise of a payout of a fraction of the valued damage by the government is a magical cure? This is a very big deal. Why do you keep going on about the "right wing"? Are you "left wing" or something? The entire parliament is calling for a larger police state and even the victims, which was my point previously. I don't have a problem with bolstering those who actually and directly deal with these people when the time arises, but not those who patrol usual streets during peacetime. Interesting point about the origins. What are you thinking? The police have actually hinted as using "spotters" in the crowds, so I'm suspicious as to who else they have mingling and their intent and purpose. Greek national TV blew the whistle on police provocateurs furthering violence there, so I wouldn't be surprised if some went on here.
What's the chance of it being a librarian who started the first protest about burning the books and what is the big deal there? SOME books certainly need burning surely.
I definately lean left of centre like most normal people do yes. I don't mind your Mr Cameron who I see as right-leaning though now unfortunately I think he reacting wholly upon fear and your country has seen much worse. So now you agree with what the the whole of parliament wants? Nice to see you're just like everyone else here including me where you can pick and choose your evidence. Personally I have seen the power given to the police abused many times and been doled out unfair punishment at their hands (have you ever actually watched Cops and seen how they cause much of the trouble?) I think those in power do need reminding every now and again that the people are the one's with the real power when push comes to shove and this event did that. It could be much worse, can you imagine how much of a real problem it would be for police if all these rioters had guns?
Riiiight, as long as you say so... You really do find it difficult to grasp my points, don't you? If I agreed, would I use words like "police state"? The politicians want more police on the streets, curfews and other time wasting enforcement. I don't. I want the lawful citizenry armed and the appropriate and particular sections, who are only used during events like this, to be given freer reign regarding the punishment of violent criminals. Poverty appears questionable as a cause when you hear of upper-middle class youths partaking in the madness. Did you not read this? The rioters had access to guns and some did have them, as a large proportion of them were "gangs". They don't obey gun control law, being criminals after all. The reason the majority didn't have or use them must be because they didn't want to go that far, as torching buildings is much more anonymous than shooting someone in public and would immediately change the resistance from police to armed response units. Murder takes a certain personality and fortunately is a minority. Besides, as we've seen looting was the main motive. Trust me, there is no shortage of illegal firearms around London, in fact, it's an epidemic. The logical response to this would be to balance the playing field and allow the business owners to properly defend their families and property.
The result of bad parenting: [video=youtube;yfR0skgCcCk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=yfR0skgCcCk[/video] If only they had a parent like Tariq Jahan: [video=youtube;UZ1VjUSKevc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1VjUSKevc&[/video] With a father like that, your kids will not be looting, but defending your community from looters, his son died doing just that. If he didn't come out and call for the rioters to end, there would be gang wars between Asians and Blacks, and we would have seen a blood bath. Tariq Jahan and his son, hero's in the eyes of many. Calls are being made for Tariq Jahan to be the torchbearer of the olympic games - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nominate-MR-Tariq-Jahan-as-an-Olympic-Torchbearer/108788599223407
Unfortunately, in the U.K. it's legally safer to let the looter harm you and steal from you than to fight back. The U.K., or at least England, doesn't give citizens the same right to self-defense as they do in the USA. As I understand it, in England, if a looter kicks your wife in the head and you punch the looter and knock him out, you are liable for assault. If he enters your home you have no right to defend your property. Hence, the situation we see here. England very much has an unofficial caste system. I saw it at work when I worked in England about ten years ago. New hires were judged by their position in society first, their talents second. The riots are partially caused by an ignored underclass that is uneducated, unemployed and does not benefit from England's "generous" (cough cough) social programs. What really makes this stupid is that it appears that they are rioting because they are left out of the new manipulative modern marketing - they want XBoxes and Wiis and iPhones. And the police response is a joke. What are they doing - shoving the rioters with their police shields? Without guns or any use of force, the looters have the clear advantage. England's upper-class believes that obedience from the underclass is required and expected. England is culturally unequipped for this sort of thing. I have visions of a Monty-Python type constable comically staring down a street full of looters saying, "What's all this, then? Go back to your homes, all of you, that's a good boy." Of course, this is a dream come true for criminals. I have been trying to figure this out. What causes this type of rioting? The gunpowder is always deeply suppressed resentment. But what is the trigger? Any social scientists among us? Ah. So anyone who does not think like you is not normal? Is anyone who does not think like you your enemy? No tolerance for diversity? Why is it the Thought Police always comes from the Left?
Sadly, you're right on the mark there Corwin. I saw on the telescreen today that the prime minister here has brought over the former chief of police of LA and NY in an attempt to utilise his expertise on combating gang crime.
LoL, you're reading more into it than I meant, though I wrote it for a response so that worked. I stand by the statement. Normal = Average - the average person is left of centre, it's the rich and powerful that ascribe to the right - your own political persuasion (the loud right) resonates with a max 10% so yes, left is Normal imho.