UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

Nah, not a violent urge to destroy, just ambivalence or worse toward the destruction of Israel.

You have picked your side in this and you can see just from the posters on this little webmaster forum the mentality of those you have cast your lot with.

You said yourself that you think Israel's formation was wrong. I don't care what religion anyone is, and I think you are not merely opposed to violence but to Israel itself. You give only muted condemnation to the terrorist and the forces who are plainly antagonistic to Israel. You claim to be for peace, but for peace at Israels expense alone.

 

You can blame Hamas and their supporters for clouding the issue.
For example, your arguments against Israel may be legitimate and nuanced but it's human nature for people to lump your posts in with, for example, imad's -- who is one that supports Hamas' hardline charter and destruction of Israel -- if you are using some of the same rhetoric. I'm not saying it's all the same, I'm just saying that it gets hard for many to discern the difference in criticism, the legit from the extreme, the sane from irrational.

It is possible but you seem to only make posts against Israel. It's ok to speak out against the weak side too. Strength or weakness isn't really indicative of righteousness.

Most Israelis seem to be for a two state solution. I don't know about the Palestinians, but the problem is, because of the tactics used by their extremists, the extremists are the ones who dictate their course.

The reason I side with Israel comes down to one thing and really one thing alone. And that is, that Hamas' position is much less amenable to compromise. It is much easier for me to imagine a party who has allegedly encroached upon lands reaching an agreement at the table than it is for me to imagine a party who has vowed to fight on behalf of their god, until the other side doesn't exist, reaching a sustainable peace agreement at the table.
If it wasn't for this fundamental, non-compromising position of Hamas and its supporters, I'd probably support them. For without that obstacle, Israel wouldn't have much of an excuse for the measures they have taken. But then the question is, would they have taken the measures in the first place? Probably not.

I'll say again what I heard someone say a few days ago in regard to Hamas' position: "you can't negotiate with god".

 

Logix, yes the isreali people are for a 2 state solution but elements of the isreali government dont seem to be for it. Just looking at the map on the video provided for us by the couragious jewish peace activist Anna Baltzer shows that there are so many settlements on palestinian land that it isnt even funny, and the funny thing is the government is making it even easier to build more settlements by offering 20 grand to anyone that wants to move into them.

The people are for the 2 state solution but the government isnt, couple that with the corruption of the fatah leadership, the corruption of hamas leaders and the way hamas was created to create conflict and you have a recipy for war, destruction, death and hoplessness.

 

who gave you the right to speak on my behalf?

I support Palestinians self-determination on their own land, and I support liberating Palestine, Hamas already dropped the destruction of Israel, if you are following the events, you will know that this was a requirement to enter elections, and they accepted a Palestinian state on lands occupied in 1967,

that of course does not mean that Israel had a "legal" start, still their establishment been on expelling 800,000 Palestinians from their properties, and on terrorism, massacres, killing...etc

if ending occupation means the destruction of Israel then let it be, they should have known that occupation will mean resistance, for long this resistance been peaceful, and there was a UN resolution that calls for ending the occupation,which as usual Israel did not implement, from 1967 till 1987 there was 20 years for the illegal state of Israel to end its occupation and implement UN resolution, in 1987 the first Intifada started and it was unarmed, the occupation also did not end, then the second intifada started and it was armed, and armed struggle against occupation is a right since day 1 of occupation,

the first suicide bombing happened in the illegal state of Israel was in 1994 27 years after occupation, and it was caused by their oppression, unwillingness to live side by side, and their hate for peace, and of course as a result of provoking wars to grab more lands, burning Muslim holy places, and massacres mainly the one that been done by the terrorist Goldstein whom they consider a hero for killing 29 Palestinians while they were praying in mosque,

despite the Zionists have stole Palestine, this includes lands occupied in 1948, Palestinians showed their willingness to share but it was not enough with a state that lives on wars, recognizing Israel is not a decision that I make, its a decision that the whole Palestinian nation should participate in, and for sure it should come after the aggressors admit what they did, and recognize Palestinians right in living on their own land and their self-determination, when the aggressor delete this right, he can't demand it from others, then we should not blame the victim then for not recognizing a terrorist regime who has no interest in peace, until the illegal state of Israel drop the idea of creating new conditions on ground and demand the other to deal with them or get killed, Palestinians have all the right to speak with them in the only language they can understand.

 

on the topic, more Jews are sick of the illegal state of Israel:

10 Jews Chain Together to Block Driveway and Entrance

 

And why does this bother you so much? Is Israel sacred?

There is a mountain of evidence presented here in these forums that Israel was founded under shady circumstances, by guerilla terrorists, who accomplished the feat at the expense of the Palestinian inhabitants.

But it is not in my nature to support Hamas. I really don't like being in that position. They are not very defensible. They and their struggle are also not fairly portrayed, however, which causes people to misunderstand the war crimes in Gaza.

The Gaza attacks were presumably a response to Hamas rockets. If that were so, we might expect a similar amount of damage.

The Israeli propaganda machine is doing everything to convince the world that this slaughter was justified...I feel my job is helping to show that it wasn't.

If Israel can only survive at the cost of these 1150+ lives, then let it be dissolved and a democracy be established which respects those of all ethnicities and faiths.

 

Israel is just a mere State like every other on Earth. It bothers me that you see nothing wrong with trading one peoples aspirations for another. I am for Palestinian Statehood. You are for Palestinian Statehood at the expense of Israeli Statehood.

Same could be said about most States in existence today. But there is only one under constant attack and called illegal.

Their words and their actions define what Hamas is.

No we would not. If any other war, with any country other than Israel, Hamas and all it supporters would be long dead. Usually when a weaker nation and a stronger nation fight one comes out victorious. Israel fights for its survival and not to exterminate the opposition. Although it seems that many hold that against Israel too.

I do think Israel's actions in defense of their nation are justified. And I do not think it was a slaughter. Those who compare it with the Nazi atrocities on this forum have not a clue what the Nazis did and the comparison is a affront to all those who perished fighting the Nazis.

You feel its not justified, so what. You are willing to trade the entire state of Israel to save a thousand lives, no matter that the consequence to those former Israelis. No nation on Earth would agree to defend itself with the limitations you place.

Is that just Israel or do you think that no nation has a right to defend itself if it will cost civilian lives? Thank God there were not people like you in charge when the world was fighting in WWII - I can picture your calls to leave Hitler and those poor German citizens alone. How dare we kill 1150+ lives.

I have no problem with people supporting Palestinian aspirations for a new state. I do. I do have a very big problem with people like you who seem content to destroy another nation to make it easier to happen. As I said before while you seem to be for "peace" you are for peace with Israel paying the whole price with its very statehood.

 

That video was absolutely amazing, thanks for sharing.

 

Browntown did you happen to see the video by Anna baltzer? There are zillions of settlements all over palestinian land which is recognized as palestinian land internationally and in the UN. How can you be for palestinian statehood and not by voicing this at the top of your lungs. These are illegal settlements and they are illegal because the UN which you and everyone supports even states this.
This is the main problem here. The israeli government has no intention of giving statehood when settlements are popping up like flies all over palestinian land.

Please watch the video and then tell me who is being fair. I gotta tip my hat to Anna to voice the truth when no one else has the guts to voice it. The truth is the truth

 

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGnmH3dtbxE

 

anti Israel... stop hating people. I come from a background where you were brought up to hate the Jewish people...I had the opportunity to work with and become business partners with a Jewish person few years back and started learning a bit more... I never could hate the Jewish people just because my elders (in their ignorance) said the Jewish people are this and are that...(I was smarter then them) In my opinion most people are jealous of the Jewish people. I give them two thumbs up.They help one another unlike everyone else - have family values - like to help their kids and give them everything - they are educated and give education high importance - have people in high places since they've been in the states for a long time - They are smart and use freedom and do not oppress their people or their own Army to win but people go willingly. I have Arab, Palestinian, Jewish and couple of Russian friends... we all get along fine and would not change it for anything other! The battle over the area goes back long time and it goes all the way back to the bible. The land really belong to the Jewish people if you analyzie the bible and view historic maps. I know lots of people are not going to agree with me but I think this conversation should stop as its not going to benefit anyone and its only making things worst. I hope all this will end soon as innocent peoples lives are being lost daily. I commend the Jews for not backing down in all this... Armenians like the Jews had millions murdered by the young Turks in 1915 and their lands taken... luckily the battle is over there for the most part but again its the same war. In the 90s a war broke out and thousands of people were left dead on both sides and even more became homeless and sick.

I pray and hope that this will end very soon but I have my doubts. I hope innocent lives will stop being takes in vain on both sides and may God help both sides and help the leaders to see eye to eye and come up with resolution to end this.

 

According to the Wikipedia entry which you yourself cited: "Self-hating Jew (or self-loathing Jew) is a pejorative term "often used rhetorically to discount Jews who differ in their life-styles, interests or political positions from their accusers"

In other words, you are simply using a pejorative term to discredit Jews who criticise Israel "because [you] believe it lends legitimacy to [your] cause of defending the Zionists of Israel."

Pot calling the kettle black!

 

No ones hating jewish people, and i came from almost the same background as you, and when my dad came to america in the 1950's no one helped him to succeed his business but his new jewish friends. My ancestors were also buthered by the turks but that was hundreds of years ago. The facts are all in those videos that were shown by the OP and you gotta look at the videos no matter who you suuport. I also support the state of israel but this illegal settlement building is going on and if you support the truth and are against oppression and colonization then you must speak out against this. No ones saying hamas, fatah and the plo are angels (heck the plo was responsible for massive brutality in lebanon and throwing that country into a chaotic civil war for 30 years), but the facts about the settlements are the facts. Im personally tired of the killing on both sides and just want the good people on both sides to get together and make peace.

 

Many people simply do not want to see one side wipe out the other but rather would like to see both sides figure out how to simply live in peace.

 

But I also support the state of palestine, please dont take one small part of my post and think i meant one thing. Please read my whole post to get its whole meaning. You need to approach this situation with pragmatism.
The fact is Israel is a country now and we need to focus on the security and peace of both the israeli state and the palestinian state.

If we wanna go back on who owns what we should give back all of america to the indians, but again lets be pragmatic folks.

 

not every jews support the terrorist country of israel.







i agree with that

 

Not all Jews support Israels terrorist acts.

It's just the ones which live within Israel who have been brainwashed.

 

I read somewhere but can't find the source right now, that 63% of the Jews live outside Israel, the Zionists terrorists raised a slogan when they started their project of stealing Palestine, that says "a land without a people for a people without a land" deleting all the rights of Palestinians to live on their own land, and denying even that the Palestinians exist, then later crying why Palestinians "deny Israel right to exist" while Palestinians were denying anybody's "right" to steal else property by terrorism and massacres..

if all Jews answered the Zionist call, what would happen? they will need more lands, so they will want to steal more, and that's exactly what happened in 1948 when they illegally attacked lands that were allocated for Palestinians in UN partition plan, and what happened in 1967 when they provoked war to occupy more lands, misleading the public opinion to believe that the Arabs want war and that they attacked, and that they want to "burn all Jews" and so on,

later it has been proven that they have no intention for peace as they want to keep what they stole, this thread shows how they been acting above the international law:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1194867

if they are serious about peace, they will not try to find excuses, like the so many excuses they used before to keep what they stole, like no partner for peace, Arafat is the only obstacle for peace, Hamas suicide bombings, rockets ... no solution.. the solution is available since very long, and since before any ciolence start in Palestinian territories, which is, end occupation.

 

It's incredible that you compare this conflict with WWII... Of course, as always, you like to use double standards. When someone compares Israel to nazi Germany you showing your outrage yet you somehow wants to convince us that Israel is in same postion today like those who fought against Hitler and nazis in WWII!
Seriously, stop with that nonsense!