Everyone is stupid in one way or another. That includes you too. Honestly, who the hell argues that a religion believes in killing the innocent. You are not very bright. I apologize if that seems offensive to you. The only reason you argue with me is because you hate Islam, because you hate a religion that you have clearly misunderstood. I apologize greatly, that you have been so corrupted by people around you, into believing the extremist vision of Islam, sad that no one has educated you.
How do we know that your version of Islam is not the watered down version. Every religion seems to have one. You have the basis of your religion, but also acklowledge the world around you. I'm not a fan of strict Christianity, even though it seems to work out well for some people. I'm sure that you and your friends have found a way of being a Muslim and comfortable with it within the society you live in. But that's not what we're talking about here. Our question is what exactly the Qu'aran says, and we get answers such as "You need to know Arabic". That is part of the reason we don't trust Islam. The secretivity. I would like to take your words on every issue, but I can't. We'd be idiots to do so - I'd love to see exactly what Muhammed has written, then make up my own mind whether the religion is good, evil or just another religion. Until we as Westerners are able to get some answers, our government will make educated decisions for us. I'm sure that they have enough Arabic speaking people to give them further insight into the mind set of "watered down", moderate, strict, and extremist representatives of your faith. Use some common sense. Telling people "This is how it is and you need to accept it" does not work with grown ups in a free society. So stop being so defensive and use this as an opportunity to educate us. I'm sure this thread is and will be getting a lot of search engine traffic from people interested in this subject. So please, stop the "I'm done" stuff, let's discuss
Blogmaster... I was serious our non-pig eating "friends" believe that their book should be read in its original. Most of the translations you find will be accurate enough. Some may be inspired by those crazy Zionists. I find that highly suspect though. Cheers...
I might have misunderstood you. If so, I apologize for it Sure, some of the translations are probably anti-Islamic. I have no doubt. Which makes it even more important to get an accurate version - I do believe however that the "only valid in Arabic" thing is hogwash. If you have a good translation with historic events, cultural introductions and such, I'm sure you can get very close in getting it accross to those who prefer reading it in English, Spanish ... heck, even Hebrew. If people don't communicate well, how can they possibly complain about being misunderstood
The perception that unless you are a muslim, you don't know about islam is a false perception. There are many people that know about islam that are not muslim. I have read most of, but not all of the quran, yet. Then we see what happens in real life. Like when riots in France take place, or when riots AROUND THE WORLD take place with violence and anger over cartoons. That represents islam. Beheadings, murders, killings, flying planes into buildings, blowing up subways, trains, cars, hotels, crowds of people and anything else that can be destroyed. Because this is life, that is what happens every day and that is what we see. Forget the tired old "but, but, but not all are. No one cares about all. All is not the common denominator to see a continual pattern of violence throughout the ages. Terrorists have not corrupted the religion, it was corrupted when it was created. Wrong again. You persist to use the tired old "translation" decoy that I've seen used by many before you. I predicted you would use it. I've seen it too many times. The verses are there. No matter what translation one chooses to use, they all say the same thing...kill the non-believers. Granted, there are some dumbed down dhimmis out there that will not research on their own and will look for the victim role, but I hate to break the news to you...there are those of us that know what you know Nope. We're just people that know better. We've taken the time, over the years (many, including myself, after 9/11) to do our own research. That never ending question of, "if islam is supposed to be about peace and tolerance, why they hell are they blowing something up every day and killing everyone? If islam is about peace and tolerance, why can't they tolerate Jews in Israel? If islam is so peaceful and tolerant, why can't Christians (and especially Jews) gather together in islamic countries like Saudi Arabia?" You know, questions like that make you go "hmmmmmm." I've not seen any terrorist sites here. Other than your usual "because I say so" rhetoric. Actually, the way I posted verses and not the actual scriptures, invited people to do just that...to go out and research on their own. That is so much more powerful than posting a scripture and waiting for the age old tactic of the muslim debater to say "but, but, but that's not a correct translation." If I can predict something so simple before you even do it, surely it would be better to post just the sura and verse number and let others see the violence for themselves. Incorrect. You refused to provide a reference, because you know the verses are violent and have no means to post a valid reference online. Incorrect. The problem has been, for many years, the deliberate and intentional media campaign that "islam is about peace and tolerance." We don't see that much anymore, heh? One can only chop so many heads off, blow up so many hotels, fly so many planes into buildings, blow up so many trains, blow up so many subways, commit suicide for virgins in crowds so many times, make so many excuses for the acts of terrorists, but dumbed down dhimmis start saying "hey mo! something ain't right here! What's with all this killing?" Guess what? It happened and it's happening more and more every day. Soon enough, we will have less and less "dhimmis" that "really" don't know about islam making the "all" excuse in the world. Very simple. Cognitive dissonance can only go so far, before people start to question why someone is trying so hard to convince others that islam is not about violence, yet every day we see more and more. It's like that old saying, "don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining." There are no innocents in islam. You are either a believer, or a non-believer. This is important to watch for, after terrorist attacks on Westerners, when you see some cleric writing a press release that says "we condemn the attacks on all innocent people." Very cleverly worded. In islam, non-believers are not innocent
I'm just waiting for imams to issue a fatwah against execute, as his version of "Islam" has no relation at all to the "Islam" most of them seem to be practicing. execute, you really should stop claiming to be a Muslim. Find a new name to describe this religion which you have invented for yourself. Call yourself a "hippie" or a "peacenik" or something. Let's see, execute says one thing and imams, Islamic religious leaders, and Muslims all around the globe say the exact opposite. Who are we to believe? execute or all of them? Whose words most closely approximate the actions that we see? Let's see, execute says that Muslims love everyone and just want to be loved and respected -- or the Muslims will insult them and call them stupid. The rest of the Islamic voices we hear say that Muslims want to cut peoples heads off for being non-Muslims. What are the fact? Lots of heads being chopped off, lots of restaurants and night-clubs being blown up, lots of innocent people being shot, lots of women being murdered. But execute tells us all that none of this is happening and we're supposed to believe him, right? execute, you should be careful what you say about Islam, or soon all of these signs will say "Slay execute", "execute go to hell!", and "Behead execute!" To the mind of most of these Muslims, you are a heretic who should be killed for the false things you say about Islam.
Will you are so dumb... There are no religious leaders in Islam, the Caliphes died with the Ottoman Empire. There is no heirarchy like in Christianity where priests and bishops have power. Imams have 0 power, they are there to preach and help people pray, the good thing about Islam is, you pray to God yourself, you don't have to even go to a Mosque to pray, you can pray from anywhere. Maybe the IRanians would issue a fatwah or whatever to me... Like they have done to many muslims... Iranians DO NOT represent Islam in general, most of them are Shiate, and are very extremist. The rest of the islamic voices you hear are a small minority in Arab countries, not muslim countries, arab countries and pakistan... Most Muslims will agree to what i said, since i copied it right out of the Qur'an... its hilarious how you have no argument other than pictures of extremists... You know i'm right, but you argue with me anyway because of your hate. You are an extremist. I don't care what you say, because its your hate that is driving you to insult a religion. And that my friend, is just childish... It's amazing that in 2006 there are extremists like you in this world, that think all muslims are evil... They are not, and i am just amazed at how the extremists have succeeded in convincing you with their version of Islam. WHich is completely false. And with Gtechs predictions and belief that he knows everything about Islam without being a historian, professor, or being muslim is just hilarious. You are a sicko you know that? You actually believe that Islam is about killing the innocent. You're just a racist, and you need to get over your hate, and learn the truth about Islam. You've been gullable enough to believe what Extremists say about Islam, so now you're polluted with your hate. I told you the truth, but you insist on believing your terrorist version of Islam. IT's not the truth. People can be bad, but you can't blame a whole religion on the actions of a very small minority. Play however you want with words, or pictures or whatever, the fact remains that extremists voices are being heard more than muslims because of hate.
Exactly, great post... you deserve a green rep . I'm sorry you had some bad experiences with some Muslims that hated jews before, but not all muslims are like that, only a small portion of it in the arabic world. It's a primitive view, that needs to be suppressed, not only in the Arab world, but the whole world.
Just to clarify a bit - the priests and the pope are part of the Catholic religion, and catholics do make up some of the Christians in the world, but probably not the majority. We don't have anyone with power, I do give respect to those in authority or are a type of an authority in my life, but only as long as they are follow God, if not they are no longer in the chain of authority. We pray to God anywhere and everywhere and any time we want to.
I have to second what Will has said. I don't believe you represent the Muslim world accurately. Hippie Muslim or muslimish maybe. I bet you drink once in a while too, huh?
Didn't mean to re-start anything that late on a Friday night either Have a nice weekend, guys. Monday we're back to fighting. As peacefully as possible.
I'm Catholic. No power struggles or power mongers from where I sit. You got the wrong religion there!
No biggie.. The conversation will go on. Just figured once and a while it's nice to break things up a bit. I'm just glad its FRIDAY!!!
I've got a kid, so Friday nights for me are relax till he gets up from his nap, work on all the stuff I cannot get done during the week. Then we play till mommy gets home.. Saturday is my fun day.
Nothing can be far from truth than this statement. In most muslim societies the religious leaders are considered equally powerful to (if not more than) the rulers. An order by a religious leader has to followed. Even countries when Muslims are in minority, the religious leaders are known to have held governments to ransom. The Shah Bano case is just an example ... where the Muslim religious leaders asserted the Muslims in India were not bound by Indian laws and would continue following Islamic laws....and even managed to get the constitution changed by threatening agitations. The recent cartoon row is another example of the kind of intolerance that exists amongst the Islamic religious leaders. Read this thread Even Hindu Gods are misrepresented and insulted by people of other Faiths.. but Muslims even though they are much fewer in number in India, have created more trouble following the cartoons, than the Hindus who are in the majority. http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=11950 http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88325 http://www.ndtv.com/template/templa...n+Lucknow&id=84981&callid=1&category=National