A Christian Terrorist would be someone who kills a doctor, because the operation he/she performs is against their ideology. The ideology is at the heart of the matter and the object is to scare other doctors into submission (which is Terrorism). The Oklahoma Bombings had to do with government. The idea was not to scare the public, rather to bring about a change in the government.
Incorrect. The root of the problem is islam and the scriptures in both the quran and hadiths which call for the deaths of non-believers. I'll be happy to post them, but I'm quite certain you are very familiar with them already. No one is labeling "all" muslims terrorists. You are attempting to use the common denominator of "all," yet no one is suggesting so. All, as a common denominator is not a requirement to recognize that "many" do subscribe to such beliefs, because the scriptures in the quran and hadiths say so. There are many peaceful muslims in the world because they DO NOT follow the religious teachings of their prophet to the letter. Likewise, there are many peaceful Christians in the world, because THEY DO follow the teachings of their prophet to the letter. While there are *some* peaceful elements to the quran, there are many violent ones that specifically call for the death of non-believers. The "all" argument, that only seems to crop up when dealing with islam (and not Christianity) doesn't work. All is not a common denominator to recognize a problem. We don't wait for "all" people to have aids, before recognizing the problem. "All" must not have cancer, before doctors work on a cure. Call him whatever is appropriate. When black men, little old ladies with blue handbags, red haired women or any other label one wishes to describe start flying planes into buildings, driving cars into Home Depots, blowing up buses, planes, buildings, cars, subways, hotels or anything else, in the name of their religion, they are terrorists. No, he was not labeled a Christian terrorist, nor should he have been. He didn't blow the building up as part of his religion and there are strong islamic ties to the OKC bombing. There is no hijacking islam. It is a violent religion and has been since it's creation. Not "all" in it are violent, but "all" is not the common denominator. This is exactly what kitman is about. The cognitive dissonance that suggests, repeatedly after all the violence we see day in and day out, that islam is not violent, followed by muslims blowing up hotels, buses, cars, trains, subways, buildings, planes, etc. doesn't work. No matter how one tries to suggest otherwise, the facts still remain. The extremists are not the ones creating all the hatred and violence and gatherings of millions around the world, as we've just seen, in violent pack mobs to expose their anger, burn down embassies, torch businesses and kill others. The extremists are the ones that actually are peaceful, for they seem to be the minority.
Gtech wrote: I would like to know more about this Gtech so if you could post the scriptures in the quran and hadiths you are aware of i would very much appreciate it.
Edz: Here are a few that I have seen posted on my political forum. All Non-Muslims are without Intelligence 8:65 O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence Fight Disbelievers 9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him). Head Chopping! God revealed His will to the angels, saying: "I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." (Sura 8, Verse 12) "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads." (Sura 47, Verse 4) 8:12- "I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off." Murder! 9:123: "Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you." 2:191- "Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out." 2:193- "Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah" Pay Head Tax or Die 9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior."
Of course, in counterpoint, the Old Testament says some really crazy things too. Personally, I don't much care what a couple of old books say -- I care what the followers of those religions are doing today. And today, the Muslims are behaving very badly.
Hi Edz, In addition, or coupled with what Will posted, I've gathered some of the verses below. Rather than post the actual verses (except from the hadiths, of which are not as easy to find online), I thought it better to just post the verse numbers so that you might have the opportunity to research them. In the never ending game of chess in discussions like these, anticipation of what "execute" might do next came into play. I anticipate that his response to these verses would be something along the lines of "these are not correct translations, since only the quran can be read and understood in Arabic." I've seen that old trick used a number of times, but it's just a decoy. Which is why I specifically just list the verses here. Then there is the moral equivalence argument that the Old Testament contains harsh verses. They do, for those were harsh times in the Kingdom of God. The challenge though is two fold; 1) find something equivalent from the New Testament, which never happens and instead, they resort back to quoting the Old Testament anyway becuase they are fully prepared to do such, but not prepared to quote from the New Testament. 2) Draw upon modern day events where people of the Bible are using it's scriptures to commit the same acts of flying planes into buildings, blowing up planes, trains, buses, automobiles, hotels, buildings; strapping on suicide belts and being promised 72 (or 80 in the case of the London bombings) virgins for committing suicide in the killing of others for their God. A sub argument of this comes into play, typically with the liberal left, but I'll wait and see if that exposes/rears it's head on it's own. Another trick I anticipate he might use, is to post scriptures to counter the bad ones. In the early days of their prophet, while attempting to build his base, he was kinder/gentler towards Christians and Jews. After conquering Mecca, and having built a larger following, he was much harsher towards them. I may also take some time to counter his comment many pages ago that I see used often, in words to the effect of "muslims believe in Jesus." While they do, the story does not just end there. I may save that for another day because I've been quite busy lately. I've followed certain threads here, but not had the time to get intricately involved with them because of my work load. 2:190-193 2:216 4:76 5:32-36 8:12-14 8:39 8:59 8:65 9:5 9:14 9:23-29 9:38-41 9:123 47:4 47:35 61:4 66:9 Sons of pigs and apes 2:65 5:60 7:166 http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR01102 From the hadiths: "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him’" - Sahih Bukhari, vol. 4, book 56, no. 2926 "When judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire" - Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no. 5552
You are misinterpretting everything, and have the nerve to tell people what the Qur'an says, when you are not a professor or a historian. I just opened the Qur'an right now, just one of the things you guys have said, an example of how you misinterpretted it. You take it out of context. When they say kill the non-believers, they are talking about killing the ones that are opressing you. Here is what the Qur'an has as interpretation and what is understood by most intelligent muslims, not the dumbass imams that preach terror. Islam is NOT about violence, it's about the freedom to believe in God, which is believed to be the last prophet of the 3. You may or may not believe it, but don't you dare misinterpret it as violence. You have no authority:::: For Example (in reply to will): The section where you find all those beheading and murder looking text, is about defending against unbelievers who are trying to convert you. You are taking it out of context, and pretending like Islam is about killing the innocent. It's not. It's a small section in the Qur'an telling you how you should defend yourself. Here's another: since will likes to cut off parts of the qur'an and not write everything about it, only parts that he likes. What it says is : Wait a second. Will.spencer LIED about what the Qur'an says. How dare you misquote the Qur'an and preach terrorism at digital point? How dare you tell people what the Qur'an says when you clearly haven't even read it. How dare you support the extremists by writing mis-quotes about the Qur'an and then lieing and taking them out of context. Thanks for proving to us what a fool you are. Next time read the qur'an instead of making it up. I looked at the exact section where he quoted it from. It does not say what he says. Nice way to mislead people and to promote terrorism. The things about killing in the Qur'an that you describe, are about self-defense and defending your religion in war. Not killing the innocent. Don't you dare lie to people in Digitalpoint like that again. Would you like me to highlight this stuff for you? To Gtech, stop with your bull ok? I won't counter-argue that its written in Arabic, because it's also written in many languages including english. Stop trying to twist the words of the Qur'an into your sick twisted belief in terrorism. All you do is take segments of a certain section, and you don't even finish the sentence you put a period like as if it ends there when in fact you are lieing.
Another one too. Well its nice you're trying to corrupt people into believe Islam is about terrorism or killings. You are truly an extremist... Here is your quote: IT DOES NOT SAY THAT.... It says Do not acknowledge the religion of truth from the people of the book, until they pay the Jizyah, with willing submission. This means that if you are in the Islamic Empire, you should pay taxes because you are not a believer of Islam, if you don't then you will pay taxes. If you do, then you are an equal and won't have to pay taxes. There is no word about killing in that section. So stop quoting the Qur'an because you obviously are lieing.
Incorrect. As I predicted before you posted, that you would do so, I simply posted the Sura and verse number. I've been down this road many times over the past few years (since 9/11...ding ding ding!) with rookie internet jihadists just like yourself. You are not the first, nor will you be the last Your kitman won't stand up here, there are too many of us that know the real truth. There's nothing taken out of context, they are there for all to read. There's an old saying that goes something like: don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining.
Right, we can be Christians and Jews (or other religions) if we pay the infidel tax. Isn't that nice Actually, it says what Will posted: http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe009.htm Why be ashamed of the truth? Perhaps to keep the infidels dumbed down?
You are outright lieing again Gtech. You misquoted the Qur'an. Everyone can see that you have outright lied and changed the words of the Qur'an to suit your argument. You have been totally discreditted, you have no argument now. And don't you dare call me a jihadist, since you're the one supporting terrorists by promoting false quotes from the Qur'an. You posted a Lie, but you won't admit it. I quoted it for you, but if you read my post or the Qur'an you would know you lied. So stop misinterpretting things and twisting the facts. The tax was there to incourage people to convert, instead of what the Christians did, like "DIE OR CONVERT" when they killed thousands of Indians, thousands of Jews, and thousands of Muslims. OH and by your last post, you just contradicted yourself. Now you posted the correct quote, and before you posted false information... You are truly hilarious haha. I'm done here, you have completely been proven wrong, you got nothing but speculation right now, so the thread ends here.
Really? Can they alter their own reality to see the words on the islamic site I posted as a direct reference? Or are you calling your brothers there liars? I also won't admit I made love with Ru Paul last night, because I didn't Projecting? How could I? Previously I only posted the Sura and verse number so that others could see what you want to hide. So in the first part of your reply, it was "outright lied and changed the words of the Qur'an to suit your argument" and a paragraph or two later, it's the "correct quote." Are there any other positions you'd like to take?
I can help you improve your kitman and taqiyya skills if you like? You're going for the victim role way to soon. To be effective, you have to spend more time trying to nicely convince the infidel that they are just not seeing it the way you want them to see it. You gave up entirely too early and just thrust yourself right into the victim role too soon. That's not effective! You have to establish yourself with more kindness and more convincing before you rush off to the victim role, or no one's going to take it seriously! OK, so pretend you didn't post that, and that you didn't try to be a victim too soon. Give it another try and let's see if you can do better this time.
So it's OK to kill people trying to convert you? Thats like when a jehovah witness comes to your front door, you open the door and swing a axe to behead them because they were trying to convert you. What are you, stupid?
Well. I dunno about you, but when those telemarketers call at 9 pm, I sometimes wish I had a nice sharp axe in my hand
And you are? Well aren't the non-believers opressing them by not believing? Mis-interpret what? I did not see any quotation marks in your rant. Not my cup of tea. Did not realize self-defense included beheadings. I've never really seen someone defending themselves by cutting someone's head off. Yikes... I'll bet he's shaking in his boots right now. How dare you... Oh no. How dare... wtf? Or? Please, no, don't whip out the Gworld highlighter. Anything but that.. Please NO... The bold text is driving me crazy. I feel like I'm in "A Clock Work Orange". Please, spare us. That last sentence was a run on. How dare you.... Oh boy...
Even if that is what it truely says, it's still a bit f$%ked up IMO. But then, it's just a book. The one thing I cannot figure out though is while Gtech posts direct quotes, citing line and verse, you do not. But you expect us to believe you? Hey man, we need proof! (sorry, could not resist)... How bout some screen shots!