Turkey: Plan to lift ban on head scarves ISTANBUL, Turkey - Turkey's ruling party agreed with an opposition party Monday to lift a decades-old ban on Islamic head scarves in universities of the mainly Muslim but secular nation. ............. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080128/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turkey_head_scarf_ban Turkey wants to be accepted in the EU. Do you think the turkish Islamists will play a positive role in the EU?
The real question is; what is your freaking problem with Turkey and particularly with it's EU accession that you use every simply thing for a sabotage? Are you even aware that 5 million Turks(bigger than Ireland) already live in Europe? Are you aware that EU citizen Turks are a larger population than 3 member states; Malta, Greek Cyprus and Luxembourg combined? I don't get what's behind your hatred full posts, mind to disclose your origin?
What I worried about is a rise in Islamic fundamentalism in basically a secular state like Turkey. I do hope it will remain a secular state and contribute to world peace and order as well as being a glowing example for the rest of the Islamic world.
Turkey will remain secular indeed, just like the last 80~ years. There is no such issue unlike presented.
Turkey is not secular. It is a corrupt, fascist state, where people and press have no freedom of expression or freedom of speech. If Turkey wants to learn what real secularism means, let them ask India, where all religions are respected. Gemal Attaturk was a brutal dictator, who killed millions of Armenians, and destroyed Turkey from the inside.
IMHO they do not seemed that bad, there are free elections, the military stayed in their barracks, though they are predominantly Muslim country they are secular in nature.......
@Gauharjk; What the hell you think you are talking about? First of all, Turkey is officially secular. Got it? Officialy, constitutionly. Have you known there were 35 women in Turkish parliament in 1930's, when most of the women could not even vote in most of the Europe? Get your facts straight. Remember; Officialy, constitutionly. Turkey is one of the few countries accross the world where you can find an active church, mosque and sinagogue on the very same streets in the largest cities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Government_and_politics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk I invite you to read before you make such comments. First, Ataturk is not even a part of the so-called claims, those claims are about 1915 events targetting ottoman empire which same empire ordered Ataturk shall be executed, so don't talk out of your .... Ataturk is a big commander who has started a salvation war against the western powers in countless strongholds, he is the biggest reformists any Muslim country and probably the world seen, that he created modern day Turkey out of the collapsed Ottoman Empire, which at the time he created was ahead of most of the west in terms of social reforms. Also read what was said in world after him: http://www2.mkutup.gov.tr/soylenenler-eng.html This is such a lame post i don't even know what to say. But take your own advice and go back to your roots, instead of being an American wannabe. Some of your people, which we are friendly with, used to think different though.
His ignorance about Turkey is only surpassed by his ignorance of America. Don't worry about it, his opinions reflect what is in his personal best interest or that of his country - not that of mine and probably not that of yours.
Your post shouts of what people are worried about Islam. Fanatical paranoa that somebody hates you and want to destroy you. As a matter of fact the so called turks outside Turkey I know I have no complains so far. Good people, good workers. But, you know much better than me though how the turks live from the Asian part of Turkey, they have not changed. They want to set up an Islamic government like that of Iran or Saudi Arabia. Why you trie to cover up the facts that Turkey is not ready yet for EU? The Islamists are changing your secular constituion right under your nose. One day you may end up with an Islamic constituion. Why should EU be always worried about the Islamists in Turkey? Let them prove for 3 decades Islam is not a threat to democracy and then eventully accepting it. I don't consider Islamic governments democratic (as we have them in the west) do you?
And where exactly did i say, or even imply that i think everyone hates us? I said "why you.." do you have a title to respresent the "everyone"? I tolf you that, because given the examples above, maybe not everyone, but clearly some of Europeans including yourself, have an obbsesive idea about Turks. PS: I'm not sure if you're a European though, you sound more like anti-Turkish nationalist of one the known nations, looking at your posts. As a real matter of fact, the Turks, that 5 million, living in Europe, is a mainly the Turks who immigrated from Asian part of Turkey and particularly the poorest families who had to immigrate abroad for work. They, as you confirmed, are the biggest example that a co-existence among our cultures are quite possible. Are you suggesting that former Soviet nations(till 20 years ago) who recently joined EU were more ready to EU than a country who is a NATO member since 50's and EU applicant since 80's? Alright, very legit and bias-free opposition you have there, no comment. 3 decades? Turkey is secular since 1923 and guess what? For all this time we were Muslims, surprised? That makes like 9 decades. Besides, if EU does not want Turkey in, they can reject the application anytime, the reason that this is taking so long is because EU itself can't make an ultimate decesion, to me, i have no problems if all ties with the Union were cut today, that's not why i'm writing here bc i want it. It's the fact that EU has double standards and great confusion with the enlargement process.
What is good about Turkish "secular" constitution that you feel would be changed? That they have no freedom of speech, no right to wear headscarfs, no right to freedom of press, military can come and stop democratic elections anytime? Is that the meaning of Secular? Who the hell is in charge of Turkey's military anyway? Not the Turkish President I'm sure What do you mean by Western Democracy? No two countries have similar democratic rules? What are you talking about? You don't consider Islamic governments democratic??? How can democracy flourish, when corrupt dictators are propped up and supported by a Super-power? Democracy means enforcing the will of the majority. Do you believe this is a right thing to do, unless you are the majority? A constitutional republic is the answer, where the constitution protects all people, irrespective if they are a minority or opposition. And Turkey does have Western style democracy IMO. The only problem is that people there are oppressed by the military, and do not have any power. Press has no Power. But Turkey is still a Democracy...
My advice is to you is; cast opinions over subjects which you have any information about. It is very decepting to talk about politics based on what you have heard on mainstream TV when zapping, your emotions, and what "my friend who knows everything" has once said. Take this advice, it's never too late.
I beg to differ on this, from what I know, Turkish military is a professional military body that is extremely proud of its tradition and serves as a stabilizing factor in Turkish sometimes turbulent politics. It had stepped in many times to ensure that the country remains secular.
Every one knows Turkish military can over-rule your elected representatives, block any political party from contesting elections, and is extremely powerful, not in control. I understand and agree that EU is biased. Some counties don't want Turkey into the Union, because their leaders are Islamophobic. That is what mainstream media shows them all the time. IMO, EU membership would benefit Turkey economically and politically. The army will go back to the barracks, and political leaders will be stronger in an EU-member Turkey. Integration with richer Europe would be very useful.
I would agree on that, integration with EU would help widen the perspectives of both political and military organizations in Turkey. Turkey can also bring about better understanding of Islam to the EU, it is a Win Win situation.
Every one knows. <- ok i forgot to put that in the list, we can categorize that under my friend told me or emotions i guess. -Prove me ......? -Everyone knows! -Oh ok then. The funny thing is, if you look in the thread, or the general discussions over this topic, you will se one point; which is all oppositions against Turkey's cause can be countered very well, because Turkey fits in todays Union in all aspects, and at an ultimate point it comes down to; "They are Muslims, who knows they won't turn out to be bombing buildings?" and on such case, your stance as a Muslim is disappointing. Can we close this now please? I will expect deeper thoughts. /poke NPT
I have nothing against the people of Turkey, but only the military. Turkey: Military Meddling Mars Run-Up to Elections Warning by military on eve of Turkey election Headscarf is a provocative symbol of religion? Are these people nuts? Your "secular elite" are just a power-hungry bunch of fools, who have destroyed Turkey. If you cannot see how Turkey's military is preventing people from contesting elections, which is the basic principle of democracy, then how can Turkey be a democracy? I seriously suggest you research Indian system, to find out what true secularism really means.
Crap! I didn't see this coming. Google Turkey+military+secularity+human+rights+violation+freedom+bangbus, paste the top results. I always thought there was nothing unpleasent about Turkey in Google, now i'm really screwed. Good for starters. Your "feelings" about Turkish military is as legit as your thoughts about Ataturk, check the posts above. I'll shortly answer your quotations; Now; Turkey's election & military: There are 2 possibilities: 1- Military intervened the politics, electorial results have been influenced/altered/modified/corrupted/changed/surpassed 2- Elections were completed and results issued exactly based on public votes. Answer: 2 (sorry) Abdullah Gul & Presidency 1- "Secular elite", whoever they are, intervened the presidental election and prevented such candidacy based on headscarf. 2- Discussions took place and Abdullah Gul elected as the 11th President of Turkish Republic by the Turkish parliamentary. Answer: 2 (sorry, again) You know, the uniqueness in Turkey is; as summarized in this very thread that, Islamists think that Turkey is a state of no-religions and religion is too much suppressed mainly because it does not look like the average Muslim country, most of them hate and blame Ataturk for this not particularly you but in general, on the other hand, western elitists think Turkey is too much involved with religion and poses the risk of jihadist agenda, mainly based on the fact that.. wait no fact, but because they are Muslims which according to them is a big risk on it's own. In fact, Turkey, in the midst of these, for all it's flaws, shows the world that civilisation and democracy can be developed in a Muslim dominant country, by solely based on it's own Muslim people, without any external cause such as oil-driven overseas export democracy. This contradiction comes from the consept that there is need of a categorization, which Turkey fits in neithers viewpoint, whereas a country in a position of Turkey should either be like {insert average Muslim country here} say Saudi Arabia(you have Jihadists!) or {insert random European country here}say Italy(Vatican shall rule!). West thinks Turkey is too much like Saudi Arabia and east thinks it's too much like Italy, there is nowhere between the two to locate into. Now you can think, who contributes to the development of Islam more? An improving and developing Muslim country, again for all it's flaws, which is heading to be a large part of the civilized world, or those who live like in 7th century, playing the victim card no matter what, sentence women to death for getting raped, and think swearing at the civilized world from shitty caves -with the face of Tom Hanks in Cast Away- is serving the great religion, who? PS: I won't comment on secularity in India, which i believe that wouldn't be my first country to research on such subject, i won't pretend to know jack based on a couple of lines i read out of a webpage.