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Top Marketing Gurus

Discussion in 'General Marketing' started by Fahd, Jul 13, 2006.

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  1. #1
    Ok here is something I've noticed about most of these so called top marketing gurus like on www.gurudaq.com

    Most of these guys don't sell anything of real value. That is, whatever they sell - software, information, etc is easily available for free to the discerning webmaster/entrepreneur.

    What they sell, they over hype to the point of what they sell is better than sliced bread.

    Is it just the words selling them and their customers literally getting suckered into buying? Do you think the buyers actually get their worth? All the testimonials sure sound great! But are these testimonials fake and/or only the very few select customers feedback?

    A good example would be Joel Comm's www.linksizzler.com where the script is on sale for over $800.
    SEMrush
    Your thoughts?
     
    Fahd, Jul 13, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #2
    My thoughts are that true marketing professionals don't "sell their soul" on the Web, because they're too busy working with the top corporations, Marketing, PR, and Ad agencies, Non-profit organizations, or running their own companies (meaning providing services, not "information"). You've probably never heard of the top marketers in the world, let alone the US, because they don't prostitute their knowledge around trying to sucker every Joe Schmo into buying an ebook or something similar. Instead they spend their time actually practicing their craft, educating clients on real marketing issues, and forwarding themselves in the industry by being involved with continuing their own education and participating in respectable organizations. They're not the ones you see peddling snake oil on the Web, making promises that you can do what they did. Guess what? The only marketing they're good at is marketing that same snake oil to unsuspecting site visitors. There's nothing they can teach that you wouldn't essentially learn in an introductory marketing course. That doesn't make them a "guru". I'm nowhere near being one of the top marketers, but I could still tell you just as much as most of them, and I'd happily do it for free on my AIA marketing site. So if you have a marketing question, ask it. Don't waste money on garbage when you certainly don't need to.

    If you've gotten one of these products, and you've learned something from it... great. More power to you. But I guarantee you could have learned the same information for free if you just would have searched a bit, avoided the hype, or asked someone in the field.

    These so-called "gurus" make the rest of us look bad, and that drives me nuts. This is the very reason I'm so torn on putting together my own ebook on publicity and press releases, even though I've been asked repeatedly if I've got something available. I normally charge a consulting fee to give that information away, so I'd likely end up charging for it (not to mention wanting to recoup some of my time creating the ebook). At the same time, I'm a little uncomfortable with that, because I already give free advice on my marketing site and places like here in the marketing forum, so it seems almost silly to charge for it. But on the other hand, I respect my work too much to ever litter my professional advice with affiliate ads in an ebook form. Heck, it's hard enough for me to be comfortable putting ads on my sites just to try to justify the time I'm already putting into them. So how these so-called professionals are comfortable with things like that is truly beyond me. In my opinion, it's a bit unethical when they're making their tips out to be so much more than they really are. Integrity should always come first.

    So yeah, those are my thoughts. Those types of "professionals" make me sick.

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Jul 13, 2006 IP
    Fahd and Correctus like this.
  3. Fahd

    Fahd Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Sounds like we both feel the same way. However, you expressed your opinions far better than I did with my open ended questions! :)
     
    Fahd, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  4. cylai

    cylai Peon

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    #4
    I agree with u guys!
    many of the so called 'gurus' made their $ teaching other people how to make $. very few of them are actually in non IM niche.
     
    cylai, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  5. dturnbull

    dturnbull Guest

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    #5
    Always hated these "gurus" the only successful web marketer that has actually been helpful is Lee from ForumTrends (and the rest of them that post there), oh and those at ProBlogger.net - there are just so many sites sellin "the secrets of websites" when there are no secrets. It's a very simple concept.
     
    dturnbull, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  6. Correctus

    Correctus Straight Edge

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    #6
    Content of their books and products: Pretty much what a person can do themselves and learn through experience, I have had bad experience in past with therichjerk and it was stupid being fooled out of money (my friend spent money on it). Most of the things in the book were simple strategies, nothing more.

    Testimonials: Well, always fake.

    Description: The Description is almost always overhyped and I am quite surprised that most of these sites follow the same pattern when they make their website. The Description gives you the best possibilities and probabilities that might happen through the usage of that partcular product they are selling (often the probability of whatever they have written happening for real is 1 in a 1000)

    Money Proofs: They are not proofs, they are spoofs, because most of them have a little disclaimer added at the bottom where they bluntly say that they take no responsbility for the truth of any content on the page, and when purchasing the product, a user blindly clicks on "I have read the disclaimer" checkbox, therefore making the fraud legal.

    Last but not the least, they claim to be making millions, then why sell ebooks for 10-20 USD each?

    So then, dont go for these stupid Marketing Guru kinda things, be your own Guru, and I am sure you will succeed

    IT
     
    Correctus, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  7. MattUK

    MattUK Notable Member

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    #7
    I've quickly come to associate,

    Tom Marketing Guru = Spam or Scam
     
    MattUK, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  8. TigerGreen

    TigerGreen Peon

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    #8
    Check out anything by Seth Godin or Guy Kawasaki. These guys are into making successful longterm businesses. They have free blogs.

    "I'm the greatest, buy my ebook" means nothing. I'm the greatest...at what, I had no idea.
     
    TigerGreen, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  9. ReviewFire

    ReviewFire Peon

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    #9
    Hi Guys

    I'm sorry but I have to disagree with much of what has been said here.

    Don't see any problem with that. If our teachers at school had taught us how to make money rather than grooming us simply for a "JOB" - then people would not have to buy this information from "gurus"

    Yes the way words are used does sell the product - it's called copywriting. Exactly the same as any sales person in any commission based industry talking to you about a potential purchase. Or any TV advert designed to trigger your buying response.

    If I asked you "Would you like a porsche, Mercedes or BMW - would you put your hand up and say yes please?"

    Now if I asked "Do you NEED a porsche, Mercedes or BMW - or would a generic family saloon do the job - would you agree?"

    People buy what they WANT not what they NEED! You don't need chocolate, tv's, DVD players, ice cream etc - etc - but you probably still buy them.

    Any legitimate "guru" will offer a money back guarantee. If you don't think you get your worth - send it back. If they don't offer the guarantee - don't buy.

    People are lazy and don't want to spend their time and money learning through experience. People want a quick fix and they want it now. They don't want to wait. Anybody can go to collage and learn to be a doctor or top lawyer, spend years and years learning and then make a good living when they have finished studying. If that's the case why doesn't' everyone become doctors and lawyers? No - instead they buy lottery tickets - because they want a quick fix, they want the reward now not later!

    If you make $20k a year, would you like to make $30k. If you make $50k would you like to make $70k. If you make $1 million a year would you turn your nose up at $2 million per year. I suspect not.

    So why sell ebooks at $10? Because they cost nothing to store. They cost nothing to deliver and very little to advertise.

    Therefore most of the money taken is pure profit. If you are willing to give away 50% of the profit - you can have thousands of affiliates marketing the book for you, i.e. you do not have to do any work at all after the book is written and you have this massive sales team out there selling your product.

    So why sell ebooks - because they are the single most profit pulling products ever created - and that is a fact!

    I have bought products from many "gurus" If I get one idea from a book, DVD, newsletter, video etc - I can take that idea and turn it into money. But I take action. So many people buy these products then do nothing with the information provided - then are the first to moan and cry scam because they haven't magically made $1 million in 27 seconds.

    If I don't feel I have got value from the product, I send it back - usually with some feedback - which in turn helps the marketer to improve their products.

    A great example of one of these "gurus" is Perry Marshall. I have bought everything he has produced. Why - because he taught me to master adwords - which has generated thousands for me. Did I begrudge him the couple of hundred dollars I payed him - not at all. Oh by the way the products are ebooks and audio mp3s.

    Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but I do get annoyed by some people making sweeping generalisations about a whole sector of the internet.

    Of course there are scammers out there and unfortunately the business opportunity and online marketing community does attract it's fair share.

    But with respect - the people who are generally viewed as the "gurus" are so because they have sold valuable products to grateful customers and provided good service - otherwise they would not be "gurus".

    Plus - the overriding factor is - no one forces you to get your credit card out and buy these products.

    Best regards

    Baz
     
    ReviewFire, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  10. TigerGreen

    TigerGreen Peon

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    #10
    I think the "gurus" in question follow this line of logic...

    I'll create a product that teaches people how to make money buy selling a product that teaches how to make money...in other words, it's circular.
     
    TigerGreen, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  11. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #11
    I'm going to reiterate my original point. I happen to be a marketing professional. I happen to work with other marketing professionals. I happen to follow the marketing industry from a professional standpoint. And I can absolutely assure you, these guys / gals are NOT "marketing gurus" on any level. They don't have any special or secret knowledge. Any marketing professional (a real one) could teach you a heck of a lot more than they could, and most of us would do it for free through personal sites and blogs. When all they do is try to toot their own horn with some of the most primitive marketing "tricks" out there, they're not only being unprofessional, but they're being disrespectful to their supposed field in the first place. It's disgusting. If you want to sell an ebook, fine. But don't litter it with ads, and hype it up with flashy language and BS. If you need a disclaimer on your sales site (heck, if you need a one page sales site at ALL), to say how results aren't typical or some other nonsense, you're not a professional. And buyers are being scammed. There are no such things as secret marketing tactics that are going to make you millions. The ONLY effective marketing is what you can tailor specifically to your site or business. Spend your time working out a marketing plan, put in the necessary effort, and you could be earning a significant income over the long term. If you're just looking for a get rich quick scheme in the first place, then you deserve whatever you get yourself into in my opinion.

    And just to demonstrate that real marketing professionals don't charge an arm and a leg just for some information on the Web, I'll gladly put my money / time where my mouth is, so to speak. I said you need to spend time working on a custom marketing plan. I also know a lot of website owners simply don't want to be bothered with a full marketing plan. So I'm currently in the process of developing a custom short-form Internet marketing plan. I'll commit to getting the outline done this weekend. I've already talked to a site owner here on DP who has agreed to let me help them create a plan which I'll be posting as an example to others. And how much will I be charging for this custom-created plan? Not a cent. It will all be posted on All Info About Marketing & PR, just like my press release resources are. And if someone opts to take my advice and give a plan a shot before wasting money on these so-called "gurus", I'll even happily suggest a few specific marketing / PR tactics based on the niche / nature of your business or site. All you ever have to do is ask.

    So I'll say what I said originally. Go to a real marketing professional if you want real results.

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  12. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #12
    One more thing, just because this topic infuriates me on a professional level....

    Take a look at all of the scam sale sites.

    Now, I want you to take a look at a publication by a real professional, Michael McLaughlin. He's a respected consultant with Deloitte, and a heck of a nice guy who had no intention of scamming anyone. He worked with Jay Conrad Levinson (the Guerrilla Marketing founder) on Guerrilla Marketing for Consultants. It's one of only a handful of marketing books that I would recommend. It's outstanding. I would suggest any consultant, freelance professional, or really anyone running a service-oriented business read this book. I've reviewed it on All Info About Consulting & Freelance Jobs (I'm not going to waste your time linking to the review, you can find it through my sig if you want to read it).

    It's not only an incredible marketing book, but look at the sales page / site: www.guerrillaconsulting.com. Even that's respectable. No hype. Free information available. And not pushy. If you like his style on the site, you'll like the book. If you like the tips there or in the blog, you'll love the book. This is how a real professional markets themselves.

    I'm actually in the middle of a book publicity campaign for an author who is a client of mine. I would never in a million years allow them to provide the BS marketing copy that these "gurus" use. Why? Because it's unprofessional.

    While I'm on the subject of respectable publications, there's another one in the series I would highly recommend, especially to the writers here : Guerrilla Marketing for Writers. I don't remember the author of that one off the top of my head, but it's one of my favorite books to keep going back to, and it's full of tips that could apply to a variety of professionals in creative areas, including designers.

    So anyway, these respectable publications are not only backed by real publishers and distributed to the masses, but chances are they're actually cheaper than the stupid ebooks from half of these so-called gurus anyway. Just please don't waste your money and time on that kind of garbage.

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Jul 14, 2006 IP
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  13. amedno1

    amedno1 Active Member

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    #13
    If you can talk your self into someone's wallet then IM is for you.

    So its no surprise that most of them just rip you off, but hey it makes money so why not.

    But at some point you have to disagree that all of the provide useless stuff. There are some who provide really good stuff for running an nternet business with little effort.

    I mean some ebooks are really informative, if your lazy to search for the info online then an ebook is the next best solution to your problem + you have the advantage of getting it straight away instead of having to wait for the book to be delivered.

    But in general I have to go with you guys IM gurus are successful money rippers and like jhmattern said on a post above they practice their marketing skills online and lure more people to attend their seminars and stuff.

    heres something to think about, they claim they work from home and enjoy the freedom and blah blah but in reality they are overworked busy wannabe marketing consultants. So in reality they don't live what they talk well not all of them

    As for Joe Comm I tink hes the most overpriced rip off his ebook adsense secrets is a total steal if you goto the google adsense site and read what they tell you about optimizing adsense for the highes CTR you wil have gotten a better guide for the cost of $0
     
    amedno1, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  14. infonote

    infonote Well-Known Member

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    #14
    jhmattern: waiting to your marketing plan. Hope you stay on DP as you provided very valuable information on this thread.
     
    infonote, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  15. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    Thanks. :) I'll post info about it in a new thread in the marketing forum when the outline / template is ready. I'll post that first once it's finalized (should be ready this weekend), and during the following week, I'll try to post an instructional article covering each of the sections and how to research / write them, and when that's all ready I'll work with the site owner I've spoken with on the sample, and I'll announce that too, so you can see how it all comes together. :) I appreciate the comment.

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  16. hsmith

    hsmith Peon

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    #16
    The easiest way to become a "marketing guru" is to have something to sell that works, that you believe in, that you can get others to believe in. So many people try to only get you for that one single sale, without considering you as a future sale or even advocating their product to others.

    Sure, you may be able to make the quick buck by getting one sale, but the true "marketing gurus" are able to turn the client into a salesman working for free and continue selling as wel.

    Least, that is how i feel about it.
     
    hsmith, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  17. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #17
    Actually, like I said in my original post, the only "true" marketing gurus are the ones being paid huge amounts of money by major corporations, marketing, PR or advertising firms, non-profits, or that are running their own successful firms with clients that matter. Their services will always be so much in demand that they'll never need to, or want to, start selling things like ebooks telling every layman how to do what they do. You can't do what they do, no matter what any ebook tells you. It takes a solid education (and a continuing one), years of experience, and results to back them up. The so-called "gurus" online are generally unheard of in the real marketing community. People just need to stop getting suckered in by this stuff. If you really want to learn about marketing, buy a textbook (not an ebook or general book) to learn the fundamentals. Believe me, that in itself would be enormously more worth the investment than 100 of these stupid ebooks floating around.

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  18. KINGOFTHEINTERNET

    KINGOFTHEINTERNET Peon

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    #18
    KINGOFTHEINTERNET, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  19. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #19
    I'm assuming you're talking to me. So yes, I am. I have my degree and run a firm in Public Relations, which is a specialty area of marketing, similar to the way Advertising is. I also run a relatively new site on the All Info About network covering marketing and public relations issues (www.allinfoaboutmarketing.com). Why? Did you have a marketing question?

    Jenn
     
    jhmattern, Jul 14, 2006 IP
  20. KINGOFTHEINTERNET

    KINGOFTHEINTERNET Peon

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    #20
    No, actually I was mocking you because you literally said marketing professional 100 times in your past 5 posts.

    You seem very very serious....
     
    KINGOFTHEINTERNET, Jul 14, 2006 IP
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