Top directories??? - On who's Authority exactly!

Its not weather i think it can work, that must be your call, but i can already think of expanding it, linking people is just not for missing people, there is linking people looking for partners, linking people looking for friends, linking people looking for people as in employer / worker type set up

if you need to link people for what ever reason

links.com

 

Hi there,

There is of course LinkedIn, which pretty much owns the business space at this time. It is true that it is possible to compete against first movers (e.g. MySpace and FaceBook), but I better have a great idea and some pretty great technical capabilities (which allowed Facebook to compete along with its original niche). But if I can differentiate by offering a different kind of service, I might be able to build something.

Thanks for your sharing your suggestion.

Rich

 

One of the most mature and accurate posts I've ever seen on any forum. It's about time novices realise just how difficult it is to start a business, never mind a web directory.

Kudos...

 

This applies to so many on the web, but the only opinion that matters doesn't always belong to the directory owner. A site must always be for the users. A website should satisfy in this order:

1st - Users come first
2nd- Advertisers are next
3rd- Directory owners are last of all

• Ultimately users will judge on search experience
• Advertisers judge on clickthroughs or ROI
• Owners judge mainly on profits

Owners judge mainly on profits they should do, but running a directory seems to be about kudos and respect rather than profit. eg: how many links have you got

 

EK, no doubting your on the money with a lot of what you post and any sane person would find it hard to argue with common sense and reality, so rather than argue correct facts, perhaps expanding on them a little.

Yes it is difficult but what is important for all new and old players is to understand it is not impossible, to say it's already done so don't bother for starters, if that were the case people could have said we already have transport so don't bother, if so, we would still have horse and cart, people could have said we have entertainment and if so we would still have a transister radio not the Ipod, and the list goes on.

Further to that there will be some one born tomorrow that will in 15 - 18 years time come up with an idea that will rock the net, and make it big, so the idea is there now waiting to be developed, there will be a new site tomorrow that rattles and roles those before it.

Change and adapting to change and new idea's is important, and guess what the kids on here today may form part of that group and i hope so.

EK with each of your posts i unwind a little about you and there is something missing still and not sure ( not looking for bad as i feel it's good or positive ) but where i am confused now, is that truely successful people often offer help and guidance but your posts almost try and put the brakes on everything? but i may be reading you wrong

For the players there are always more than one view and looking at other angles, don't be afraid to invent the new transport or media player just because its been done, dont be afraid of getting things wrong, because it will be the only way to learn,

Don't think you need you need to know everything because you don't, you just need to know how to acess the information if you don't know not the information itself and or acess the skills needed not the skill itself. No one person that is successful, does it on their own they sorround them selves with knowledgeable people and those with the skills needed.

Lastly learn to back yourself in if you are sure about your idea, to much humming and haring, but what ifs and im not sure type stuff some guys here need to harden up, no place for pussies at the top.

With that hoping all here find an extra inch. take themselves out of the comfort zone and build what others say can not be done.

To the owner of links.com, yep i think your right it would or could never work and is a waste of time, tell you what i'll slip you a few bucks on paypal for the dud domain name and take it of your hands

 

Hi,

Since I was involved in venture capital for a while, I'll briefly relate to you my experiences and observations:

1) Everyone thinks that they have a bright new idea that is sure to work, especially if they work hard at it.

2) It is much easier to spend money than it is to make money.

3) 99% of the new ventures end up either losing money or never paying back on their initial investments.

In venture capital, one is hoping that there is one big hit in 20. and that big hit pays for everything else. The trick is to have enough money left over, so you can get to the 20th hit. The surest way to the poor house is to bet everything on the latest and greatest idea - and then poop out before you ever get around even the first lap. Patience is king.

Just a little bit of my own experience after being in business for 35 years - and retired at 50.

Rich

 

And top advice for al players, that domain is a nice jewel in your crown of 20 thats for sure.

cheers

 

Thanks much. It was partly by luck, partly intuition, and partly patience that I have the domain to work with. Sometimes it is frustrating that I cannot put together the right idea, but I figure it is part of the process. I always appreciate the gracious assistance and advice that I get from others.

Thanks again.

Rich

 

Interesting, and feel this thread will end up covering new ground, although that may not be to everyones liking. We have a few or perhaps more that don't wish to move beyond their comfort zone, and that's fine, I just ask that they don't hijack this thread - thanks!

Ok, I see what you're saying and partly agree, except the web is such a different model to say transport (offline business), and as such there are fewer transport companies compared to websites. Take Courier services for instance - there are a lot less of these, so although the competition is reduced, there is room for more to service, as they all offer different things eg: international service, multi-drop, same day, overnight etc, and don't all try and offer the same services (which is quite tough to do), so the only thing they can beat each other on is price.

The point I'm making is there aren't 24 million Courier start-ups each month - but there are 24 million web pages every month at least, and yet many still actually think they will be found, if they copy what everyone else is doing, and that's clearly foolish. And although people the web is a large place, I get the feeling many still see the web as what they can see or access from their PC Monitor, and are not aware of the complexity of the www or the true vastness of it all.

Now the web offers incredible resources, no doubt about that, but copying someone else is just madness, and this is the problem. They see Amazon and truly think they can bring them to their knees, it's really quite disturbing, when they actually want to be inventing new services, as they will stand a chance at prising away visitors from the big dogs. But nothing new is being invented - and this is the whole point to success on the web, media or no media.

You mentioned Horse & Cart, I view the same type websites as that eg: there is no new advancement of ideas. But people want what's comfotable, so I reckon all these directories exist purely because it once proved to be a great advertising platform, but now it's had it's time and the only ones that won't accept it are the directory owners, except the public/visitors moved on years ago for better things. - The search engines..

Now, here's the real problem, the users know search engines, they know how good Google is, Yahoo etc etc right, so now don't trust anything else, because they feel Google is all there is, and quite possibly that Google is the web itself (I know they are out there) - but this is so not true and a very blinkered attitude to take, but they don't care because they have Google.
So how to change their minds?

Well, Google is massive, but don't (infact know) think it does a brilliant job, as many times it failed to deliver for me, and good search is vital for many. But other engines win favour, simply as they are huge starting points for the webs' information. But the web is the real resource here, and search engines is just the search tool. (I'm not sure people think like me, but the web is the true service, and not say google.)

So, others built engines, portals and services to offer what was lacking in search. But instead of doing just that, and building tools that provided different to what Google or Yahoo provide - they made smaller versions of Google. Now that's insane, because these replicas don't have the X-factor to pull away Google's visitors. So now we have lord knows 50'000 little Googles running about, it's not original and doesn't sell - period.

So where's this change and adapting you speak of, it doesn't exist or at least doesn't come along that often, and from what I've seen of new entrepreneurs, these decent ideas come about only every 2 to 6 years, so looks like many say a lot, but don't do a lot, and that's very annoying.
Sorry but I don't see forum dwellers invent the next big thing, I just don't think they are true entrepreneurs, or at least haven't see anything yet, as the true ideas rarely surface and there's just more of the same because it's easier and folks like the familiar I guess.

But some familiar ideas work better than others, and directories aren't one of those ideas. Probably too old a concept, endless lists kind of thing, when people are demanding information en-mass, not simple website lists - who knows.....

No, you're pretty accurate. I deal in facts, and hate unoriginal ideas, because old ideas don't keep up with wants and needs of buyers - which is crazy when you want to keep customers returning. Er, think Longevity - not quick cashflow..

There's nothing wrong with slight reinvention, but some go too far and do this a little too much and end up as exact copies of already doomed ideas. The new idea must stand out, or what's the point in the new idea.


Thinking of fresh ideas is tough, boy I know about that one! And I just get the impression that people don't want to do that for whatever reason. Probably because of the work involved, doubts of success, zero capital or just plain fear of failure.

Be original - it's the only way to go, and in 15 years time you can say to yourselves "I built the new whatever, and it got recognised as the new blurb service"

.........be proud, not a copycat

 

Without wanting to run the risk of hi-jacking a thread that's already gone off on a tangent, Top directories??? - On who's Authority exactly! was the title if I remember correctly, you mentioned to me in a p.m that you have a "Search Engine". So I find it pretty strange that you say 'be proud, not a copycat', what's different with your search engine? and where is it? I know I said in p.m that we agreed that often its a case of telling people what you want them to know but in your case because your offering this 'expertise' at least demonstrate this with tangible evidence that you've been able to apply this to your own life.

It would also re-enforce your comments which if you take away the verbosity actually make sense.

 

That's much appreciated Jamie - Thank you

 

There you go, good start, simple response to a simply compliment. Now back to Top Directories in general lets get this off a 'one trick pony' subject which its become. If Links.com wants to get airtime I'm sure Rich can start a new thread fishing for help.

 

Who Decides ? I'd say unique visitors, these people ultimatley vote with their mouse button.

 

Fair comment, but do visitors pay the bills even if they are unique visitors? Wouldn't it be just as fair to say that website owners wanting to be listed in any given directory would also have a say in what they view as a 'top' directory?

 

There are probably 4 main types of visitor:

• information hunter
• Buyers of services
• Advertisers
• Viewers eg: viewing a site for entertainment purposes.

they could all have a say about any site, but even if they buy something, they have no right to decide what a company does or should be.

Why? because the advertisers/visitors don't own it. They are only users of the service.

You cannot force someone to do something against their will, and searchers are picky animals. More picky than you realise, and won't just buy because someone says 'Buy here'.

Even returning visitors have no rights, the rights ours get, are what we give them. Visitors don't pay us, clients do the paying and clients may eg: suggest a new service, but cannot force us to incorporate it - no way, they don't have that kind of influence.
I had a client ask about us offering a ppc system, but this may not be possible due to lack of resources to monitor click-fraud, so it didn't go forward.

People can say what they like, they will rarely know the truth behind the organisation - I mean look at Google and all the claims to insider knowledge that goes on. The only ones that know the truth are the owners.

 

Thought you said you did a business degree? If you had you'd know that if a thousand customers suggested you sell carrots as they'd buy them, then you'd sell them, you sell what the customer wants to a greater degree than opposite.

Your seriously misled here and I'm convinced you never took a business degree if you have this mindset. You learn by return visitors that your providing at least 'Something they like' otherwise why would they return? As for the ones who don't return you try to learn what your not providing for them and work on it.

Absolutely correct on this, (at last something we can agree on). The problem is though that the larger the company the more chance you have of getting leaks. I can speak on personal experience on that although it wasn't internet related it was property. NEVER rule out insider knowledge even if the knowledge is orchestrated by the insiders deliberately to put competition on a false trail.

Hmm, your a right puzzle.

 

This 'top' directory stuff is a laugh isn't it, I mean what's it all about - gotta be an ego trip right. I see directories all the time and certainly don't think "here we have another Yell.com killer", quite the opposite infact.

It's just directory owners all saying "we are great", but if there is a top directory list, it wouldn't have low pagerank directories on it anyway.

Also the term 'Top Directories' could mean anything couldn't it. It could mean:

Attractive design
Good Pagerank
Spam Free
Authority

and none of the above mentions or convinces me of capability to get my business noticed to a significant level. It's just words at the end of the day, and people want to be foolish, that's upto them isn't it.

 

Well if a directory is not judged by those who choose to use it ( in any form ) then can i ask what you would consider to to be the factors in judging a top directory, for me i will stay with visitors.

If i owned a cinema and played crap films i would get no bums on seats regardless if my claims were velvet seats, if iowned a deli and sold crap meals regadles of my fresh claims i would get no customers

I also think there very well may be varying levels of personal success and none of them wrong as each person would have differing goals set.

 

What is a top directory and who decides it has been an argument for 10 years that I know of except the argument used to be who are the first tier and second tier directories and who decides it.

 

Judging a directory's status involves quite a lot. The design, what industry does it serve, is it a true resource or an empty shell etc etc. For me as a searcher I use the search engines period, unless the directory is very niche and outstanding or has incredibly unique potential - I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft cattle prod. So to get me interested, it has to be pretty special, others require less, and many are just after that freebie, so it depends and there are many different reasons.

Many talk about quality, but few directories are actually that, and you can quickly tell the ones with passion behind them, and that speaks for a lot these days. If someone is only concerned with chasing links, then there are tons of poor directories for that, but searchers now want more from their search experience, and ease of information is now the goal, sadly the major engines can't do this, but this is the way now.

I don't have any set criteria when judging, what works really well, usually does the trick. I found this directory the other day, and it was so refreshing, to see the owner had gone to a lot of trouble to put it together, and yet he probably makes bugger all from it which is very sad. But it was packed with lots of information like Guides, City info, unique info as well as a search facility by state - and it wasn't full of the usual 'in you face' make-me-rich kind of thing. I guess it had an air of authority about it, but it also looked young, so there probably are many that outdo it, but it impressed me because of the sheer volume of content. I didn't delve too far into the site, but it has potential and the owner seemed to care, which is refreshing these days.

So mass of information impresses me.

Ofcourse, you will get that. But it takes so many years to just break even, so forget getting rich from this.

So I'm saying the following is needed for a quality portal site:

• Focus on the user
• Be original in design and content
• Uniqueness is key to success
• Forget the money aspect - totally!
• Give something away for nothing
• Lose the webmaster attitude - it doesn't sell

there is much more to learn, but until the above is done to perfection, it's pointless teaching the rest. Just concentrate on the above and it will help lots.