Don't let it get to you, Mik. Some things in life we cannot change. I am not trying to be right or convince anyone, but I truly believe in the opinions I voice. You obviously do the same. It doesn't mean the other person is evil. I myself think that there is huge communication barrier between the US and most of the world. We are not out to dominate or conquer. I don't even want the responsibility in Iraq. I believe people were oppressed over there. My cousin is in Iraq and his parents hate Bush. I believe his duty will prevent something worse happening in the future. I would like to see the war over and done but not abandoning what has been started just to watch a new Saddam arise and have to go thru the same thing 20 years down the road.
You've done what? Ah, yeah... Ok... Hmmmmmm. I'm not rebutting anything. There is nothing to rebut. You have done nothing but ramble, rant and rave spouting incoherent gibberish. Admittedly I tend to breeze through the bulk of your posts because they are hard to understand. I am not sure if they are just lost in translation because English is a second language to you (and if it is, then I apologize), or because you are so off the wall angry at the world you just spew out all of your collective thoughts without any degree of organization. I feel like I am reading a CB manual half the time. I've not called anyone a name. I have indicated that the behavior and endless repetition of nonsense is childish. You have made statements that have no bearing in fact, and then support your claims with more statements that have no bearing in reality, or are simply so grammatically challenged that I cannot comprehend what you are babbling about. The "credibility" statement goes to your misunderstanding of why Saddam invaded Kuwait. I assumed from your statement that you did not know why he did because you again made a statement with no bearing in fact. Quite to the contrary of your claim, Saddam invaded Kuwait because Kuwait called the note. At the end of the Iran/Iraq war, Kuwait asked Saddam to pay back his debt to them. Saddam's answer to that was an invasion. That's it. That is what started the Gulf war. Not oil, not Reagan, not Bush, not Haliburton, not Cheney... Saddam figured in response to Kuwait insulting him by requesting repayment of debt he would take over their country. Open any 10 year olds History book, and you will find that information. Very few people know that. It's pretty simple, and a pretty silly reason for war, but that's what caused it. Instead you would have me believe that President Reagan started the war. Of course you have to preface that ignorant statement with disdain by insulting one of our former leaders by spelling his name "Raygun". I guess that is part of where my "4 year old" comments come from. What the hell are you talking about now? You made inference that President Reagan was to blaim for Saddam invading Kuwait. Now we are stepping backwards into the Iran/Iraq war. That is a whole other subject. I could go toe to toe all day on that one, but why? What does it really have to do with this thread? Lovely, not only is every source on the internet quoted in 99.9% of your post, but now I am. I must say, I am quite humbled by that. Thank you. Oh God, yes you are right. If I had taken the time to read all the copy/paste piece meal articles from the mother of all truths ("internet web site"), I would have long ago seen the light. I think I have been quite careful to cite sources for various claims. Anything else I say is just opinion. I am not one to believe I am right all the time. I'm a little too south of the pole for that type of arrogance. I'm really not sure I follow you. You made a statement about President Reagan with regards to Iraq and the invasion of Kuwait. I took issue with the statement, because with all due respect, it was quite obvious that you did not know what you were talking about. I am not going to continue a diatribe about what "Jer" thinks happened after 1988. It's not really my intent in this thread, or in matters of discussing history to give you "my take". I've tried rather hard to simply state fact about certain events as they have occurred and as seen through the eyes of history. I am not interested in stating a biased interpretation about any of these events because hind sight being 20/20, that is quite impossible to do without warping fact.
I think some of you are missing mikmik's point, what I get from him is that no nation has the right to go lay waste to another nation and kill innocent people with modern weapons. How would you like it if someone came to your state and wiped out your city, because they did not like your mayor? Another thing you are missing is the case he makes that we put Saddam in power in the first place in the Iran/Iraq war.
Put saddam in place? We invented Iraq in the first place- It never should exist. What if the UK decided that the US, S america + canada should be one country, where we will draw the borders for you. Im sure there would be a few different perspectives here.
More nut jobs You can always tell the lunatic ravings of the left with their "what if, what about, but,but, but". Anthony, I thought it was miks admiration of the US you admired so much?
Yes it does but if we watched out for their interests and not ours. We would end up safer. I dont see 'terrorists' that live in giant mansions and drive flash cars! If my kids had to drink dirty tap water or avoid landmines. I may well feel militant too.
Is that really how you see it ? Yes 'we' may be, but I don't believe we are doing it as charity.. there will be a massive longterm return for us Im sure. If there is anyone from Iraq here. Speak up and be heard. I was considering going over there and see how I could help at somepoint. Not sure at the moment though.
I don't see anything wrong in benefitting from doing something good, at least we will put money into their economy and help them like they have never been helped before by Saddam. Equal rights for all people. The whole "that is their culture", "they don't know any different" mentality doesn't site well with me. That means putting our right above them and ignore their rights to be human beings. How anyone can close their eyes and say "oh well" is beyond me.
Saddam was a terrorist, who built mansions at the expense of his own people's welfare and drove flashy cars. I'll never understand why people jump up to defend a mass murderer. One million people dead, new mass graves being found, and yet people still feel compelled to rise up and defend a gutless coward.
It's too funny how we are being blamed now, all the bogus accusations about we are doing it for oil. Do you guys know how much in tax dollars the war is costing us? Think about it. How ignorant to make us look like greedy bastards for doing something good. The oil benefitted noone but Saddam while his people were dirt poor. I don't like the war one bit but it is extremely selfish to sit there while others are suffering because of one guy. This is the 21st century and whatever the media tells you .. make up your own minds and put yourselves in the shoes of the citizens of Iraq.
To be fair it also benefited some of the corrupt officials at the UN and their family members through the "oil-for-food" program". Even typing the title of that program makes me chuckle. Rounde - If you do go to do charity work in Iraq, you'll certainly have my respect
Thank you! And that is what upsets me so much when those phoneys are the ones who then get the European media to blame and accuse us. That is why I am pro America and Bush, because I feel like everyone else is trying to blame us for everything and accuse us of being the reason for everyone else's problems. Sure .. blame the US. Whether it is the Israelis or the Iraquis, noone should live under oppression. I trust our government a lot more than the UN.
And who is doing that? Not the US. Someone did, but you seem to have forgotten. We, like the French, the British, the Soviets, and everyone on the planet provided both sides with the means to keep a stalemate to insure that the balance of power in the Middle East was not disturbed. So what? What does that have to do with anything? Once that war ended the assistance on all sides ceased. Sorry for the edit, but I should correct the above statement. The "assistance on all sides", not necessarily ceased. Some countries tried to smuggle Nuclear reactors in, others funneled money, etc...
I'm not sure if I understand or even want to understand the obsession with trying to find mistakes in everything the United States is doing. if you critique anyways, why bother listening. I cannot blame Bush for doing what he believes is right. The UN was too busy being paid off. Go blame America, go blame the Jews ... what else is new? Same sh*t - different decade.
Not blaming any nation in particular. Im sure that Iraqis, US, UK probaby even a few mongolians were involved. It is the EU and US that made the whole situation. Including Saddam.. Saddam was NOT killing his 'own' people. He was killing Kurds - to him they are NOT his people. I do not defend or condone his actions in anyway, but I am not niave enough to believe that any of the major world players couldnt have changed the situation whenever they wanted. They are all to blame im sure. I dont blame the US at all.. As a famous quote goes... with great power comes great responsibility.
and I commend the british government for stepping up with us . I am sure Tony and George are not agreeing on everything. But there comes a time when standing up is right, and if you have a mission to accomplish, you don't always have time for negative, corrupt or whiney ppl/countries to become convinced when in reality they are too selfish to look outside of their own borders and take interest in anyone else's well beings and lives.
Yeah, and Hitler was not killing his own people. He was just killing Jews. See out how sick that sounds? That is a horrible thing to say. Anyway, we did change that situation. There is nothing to blame.
I am NOT saying killing anyone is ok in ANYWAY. I was just correcting your post. That is all/ Hitler also spent alot of his time watching charlie chaplin in the mountains of switzerland. He wasnt doing the killing himself, he was the 'icon' or figurehead. Same as Saddam. This situation has been around since the dawn of time in some form. Romans, Ghengis Khan. There will always be those in power who have their own agenda.. I dont kill people, I don't take whats not mine. I dont vote. I do my best not to get involved. My life is already too much to deal with..