While there were a lot of reasons for our pulling out of the vietnam war, i do agree that the comparision you made of terrorists to the protestors was a large stretch No, we are not, and the 'war' (which has not officially been declared, another frustration), is not one we should have been involved with. Fight against terrorism - yes going into iraq with no evidence to support the fight against terrorism - no. but now that we went over there, and got all tangled up like we did, we kinda have to stay for a bit and try to clean up the mess. The sooner we leave, the better in my opinion. I'm all for helping countires that ask for help to overthrow dictators and evil empires. But that is not what happened in this case.
mia Sigh, how could anybody possibly misunderstand the point there, mia. Hey wendy: wendydettmer Quote: Originally Posted by mikmik And you are entitled to your beliefs, but I al least back up my opinion. Seriously, try not to be such an ignorant, blatant, hypocrite. spouting pointless rhetoric here isn't what 'good men do' And that applies to who? What pointless rhetoric?? HMMM?? Opinions are like assholes, everyone got them. If you would care to explain how I am spouting pointless rhetoric, go right ahaead, or else be quite. Your opinion is as dull as you are. Poli-sci, my goodness. Hey, you can go read about logical fallacies also! And you can go and find reports on economic indicators too, be my guest!! What a great idea, that way you can contribute to the knowledge concretely, instead of blowing wind, EH? Note, the Fraser institute is a right wing think tank, in case you want to accuse me of bias. I partake in these discussion with the purposes in mind: To learn things and try to understand what I don't, and to show how to think and expose hypocrisy. My hobby is critical thinking, philosophy, and logic, and I am not very good at any of them sometimes. But I always want to learn, and expose truth. I do not care who is right, I only care about WHAT IS RIGHT. I love getting emotional, I love name calling, but I never forget to include WHY I have my opinions, anfd what they are based on. Maybe you could learn to do that properly. Hint. Yeah, this is boring sometimes, but I don't want you to quit trying to come up with something sensible, okay? That's a girl :O)
You may want to try to teach logic to yourself before you attempt to teach it to others. No, see, I am trying to learn it with others. If you have problems with my logic, feel free to show me the error of my ways, okay? Seems like I need to keep repeating myself here, but maybe some day these folks will understand the difference between opinion and reason.
I can appreciate your hobby of critical thinking, philosophy and logic, all three are great. I can even appreciate your desire to find the truth and debate. But to come out and say you love getting emotional and love name calling? Those are counterproductive to a good debate, and leave you looking foolish and uneducated in mosts of your posts. anyone can swear and spout out articles they find online, but that doesnt' equal critical thinking. btw...i'm quite the liberal, abhor what President Bush is doing, and was quite active in the last election and campaign. (as I have been in all elections and campaigns, even before I was old enough to vote). Yes - opinions are like assholes, every one has one. But that doesn't mean you need to act like an asshole when giving your opinion, and quite frankly I think that's where you need to learn the difference. in any case, I am more then willing to continue debating with the intelligent individuals here, but I am through with your nonsense. be well.
Hey I love my Canadian neighbors and would vote to protect them. But if we didn't show the world that we cared about canada, the French would come over and take it back, since they probably have a better military than Canada. (I said probably because I really don't know) I view Canada as part of us - like a brother - you know a little big brother. More land but less muscle.
I love canada, and have travelled from one coast to the other (well, almost as far east as one can go). Drove through the Yukon territory, was in montreal for my honeymoon....the place is great, and for the most part, everyone was quite friendly and pleasant to be with.
I don't plan on going North, I just want to go south closer to the equator where it is warmer. I get cold too easily having about 10% body fat. I would need to gain 100 lbs of fat to warm up enough to move that way! At 33 I have now hit 140 lbs (once weighed 148 in the army 14 years ago - short term since I got sick and had to get out)
First off we are really all friends here and the forum circuit is a small world so let's all just present our views and try not to hate those who have a counter view, if GTech and I can be friends it is possible for all to do the same. Next the Canadian Military and the USA Military defend North American air space together, in fact they train together and officers of the Air Forces of both nations work in the same buildings, so let us not go there guys and gals.
You're rambling again. Man you must have a huge chip on your shoulder. You are typing faster than your mind will allow you to check for errors. I know we all have typos every now and then, but this looks as if you are just pounding away as fast as you can to retort. Relax man. It's not your country to criticise. There is nothing to address. The subject is closed because, with all due respect, you do not know what you are talking about. Then spend that time learning to spell. Peace and Chicken Grease... Have a lovely weekend!
mia, good posts as usual. As expected, you took considerable time to debunk mikmik's assumptions in great detail. I admire your grasp of past and present issues. The information about the Clinton years and the start of living beyond our means was excellent. The solid information on Clinton's efforts to gut the military were very good. I lived through it as well, and remember my brother-in-law being quite worried over all the closures because he was (and still is) in the Air Force. Haven't had much time to get into it today, have some work to finish up. Mostly checking in to see if any google updates mikmik, I couldn't make sense of the issues you were trying to raise. Other than the typical "blame America" for the world's problems mantra. You point fingers well. Wendy, you might be interested in this article from the NYT. Now that Bush is re-elected, they are not hiding information as much. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?pagewanted=all&position= I have an article from last year bookmarked that has satellite photos of large convoys going to Syria as well. The article is interesting when following some of the moonbat sites. Where before, they harped there were no WMD, now they are all too eager to blame Bush we didn't get them quick enough. But then, they often only seem satisfied best when he was brutally murdering people. Speaking of which, read another article today where Iraqi's found another mass grave. Up to 5000 people in this one. Anyway, thought you might add it to your collection.
I am glad to say I have been way out of line. I am guilty of name calling and showing a lack of class, wendydettmer, to you, sitetutor, mia, and GTech. Actually, it only undermines my credibility. The main lesson to be learned, by me for sure, is that understanding each other is more important than 'proving your point' by intimidation. Ain't I guilty of what I claim the US Govt! I stand behind my views, just as everyone here does theirs, and I do not for a second think anyone here is dumb - at all. And, debunked, Thanks, we all want the same thing, and really, I said it before, I have great faith in you 'Yanks' lol that you won't put up with crap from your leaders either if it was getting out of hand. People are people, and dumb/smart has nothing to do with where you live, or your gov't. I admit becoming judgemental of Americans because of Bush, and that is not right. I am hypocritical here, and other times too (Yikes) I generally see it as 'North America' more than 'US and Canada' for societal shortcomings; we are far, far more alike than any two countries in the world. Thanks, brothers and sisters! GTech, thanks for the links as well. It does indeed seem that your gov't is more open, how else could I get so irate at stuff I wouldn't otherwise have known!
I'll read the whole article at length tonight, thank you. I would like to clarrify that I do believe Iraq was hiding weapons, and I do believe that Saddam is evil and vile and i'm glad he is no longer in power. I just think the link between 9/11 and Iraq was flimsy at best. The base closings are an interesting conversation. It would be nice to have the best of all worlds, where everything can get funded that needs to be funded. Ideally, we would be able to keep a strong military and have enough to feed/insure those at home. Making priorities can be hard and I don't think there is any easy answer.
BTW, the Gov't has released reports admitting there were no WMD. The quote is "Dead Wrong" in regards to thinking there were any.
You tried to illustrate a comparison between guerillas/terrorists and Vietnam War protesters. There is not connection, nor is it a valid comparison. I'm still a bit taken back, and concerned by that statement. I assume it was a slip. Who knows. I'm not God. Perhaps never. That is why we are at war with Terror. As to troop withdrawals, the Iraqi President seemed to indicate 2 years. Do I think we will have some military presence there indefinitely? Sure. That is very likely, though probably not without invitation. Again, who knows. Probably not, and we probably will not as well. So long as the EU make discussions for the EU, and not the US and US Policy at home. Sure. I hardly think President Bush is begging the EU for anything. He has reached out to every nation since day one, including those that attacked, and continue to attack us. Will it fall to terrorists? I am optimistic that it will not. Civil war? Sure, that is likely. Even the US was not built in a day. All new (and that is what Iraq is) nations/governments have their hills and valleys, trials tribulations and other problems. But again, I am quite optimistic. Depends on what you call winning I guess. 3 car bombs, 1 hostage vs. child abductions, child molestation's, murders, car jackings and all the other crap that goes on on a daily basis in the average US City? Overall, I am optimistic. It could be much, much worse. Hell, Saddam could still be running the joint. So instead, there would be no car bombs, just rapes, torture, gassings, and other much more pleasant occurrences that are state sanctioned and organized, rather than random terrorist acts supported by some of our "previous" allies. Keep your chin up. Things are getting better every day!
Hi Wendy, I think the 9/11 link to Iraq was overplayed some, but there was one. Here's a link I saved quite some time back: The 9/11 link was not part of what Bush laid out in conditions for Saddam. In fact, the conditions were quite reasonable. I often wonder which of these was the hardest one for Saddam to let go of: These were the conditions laid out for Saddam to avoid war. None seem entirely unreasonable, they are resolutions he should have been complying with in the first place. And two years later, we are learning of the mass corruption in the oil-for-food program and countries (some of our own allies) whose support was bought off. mikmik - peace. You are as passionate about your issues as we are ours. I always enjoy a good debate. Even if they sometimes get heated.
I agree on all points. The last point however... No one in the Bush admin ever said there was a link between Saddam and 9/11. Only the media said that. I cannot remember one single time this was ever said by anyone in the Bush administration. I do think that there was a link between Saddam and Bin Laden though. In any event, it has always been my understanding that the reason for invading Iraq was to remove a terrorist from power. Not to remove a 9/11 terrorist from power, not to wage war on Iraq or the Iraqi people. Do remember when the President gave his State of the Union address and waged a war on terror he said that we will "go after the terrorists, and the nations that harbor them". That is why we are in Iraq. To remove a terrorist, and those that harbor them. Since doing so we have not seen an attack on US soil since 9/11. Neither domestic terrorism, or foreign. Both of which occurred on a regular basis prior. In all fairness to President Clinton, a great many of the base closings made during his administration where technically planned, and or recommended by the BRAC (Base Realignment and Closure). Anyway...
CNN: Report: Iraq intelligence 'dead wrong' Bush says fundamental changes needed in spy agencies The Missing WMD Report But.... Here is a CIA page, This report relays the findings of the Special Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence on Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction. And the first link, Charles Duelfer's Transmittal Message I know damn well that sometimes, probably all the time, it is never as simple as we think, arriving at conclusions. I still believe there was terrible decision making and accountability, and indeed, I still don't see Bush taking responsibility for manipulating public perception.