To most Jews, Jesus was nothing but an impostor. Simply irrelevant!

To begin, you might as well start by saying "Jewish" principles if you want to talk about the horse coming before the buggy because Christianity is based upon Jewish principles, right?

The founding fathers of this country put their religious beliefs - whatever they were - in their pocket and created a system where people could be FREE to choose what they want. To even suggest that the US should be Christian because you think that kind Christians founded what we know is the US is arrogant and insensitive. Maybe you should read the Constitution, the Pledge of Allegiance and every other document which explains what the United States is supposed to be.

Now if you want to take a sobering look at history, during the period of time you talk about all these people being "good Christians" is also the time of the Inquisition in Spain, where Jews were killed or forced to convert to Christianity. You may be unfamiliar with this well known historical event. As a result, many claimed to be Christians in order to avoid death. In fact, it is reported that Columbus' voyage was financed by wealthy Jews and "recent converts" if you want to look. History is painful to read and accept and you have to accept the whole, not just the parts you prefer.

 

I will have to say first, you sound like a very angry person and for some reason you want to blame me for your anger. Maybe I shouldn't have walked into this conversation.

You also might want to read the constitution and explain to me what the US is suppose to be????

First off you are talking about the pope and catholics, something that isn't even in the Bible. That is a man-made religion that was caused by mixing Christianity with the other beliefs of the day. I will be first to say "forcing" anyone into ANY religion is wrong or killing someone for not accepting or denouncing a religion is wrong.

 

Who is angry? It is disturbing how many Americans keep telling the rest of us about this Christian country. I don't know if they can't read or just don't want to read. What part of the Constitution don't you understand? How about the First Amendment - are you familiar with that one?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This should get you started with what the United States of America is about. It seems to be completely contrary to anyone's assessment or understanding of the country being a Christian nation or any religious nation.

The point is that the belief in Jesus Christ as a deity was forced upon numerous people, then the result of these actions can take any form today be it Catholic, Protestant, or just wearing a cross and going to church every once in a while because you want to believe in something. The conversion took place and down the line the family became Christians, free to choose from whichever branch they cared to believe - and going back to Judaism was not an option unless you converted.

Now if you want to say that Catholicism is a man-made religion then you're treading in very murky waters with regard to Christianity as a whole. It has been reported (nobody knows for sure) that well over half the world's Christians are Catholics. The Catholics believe that the "man made" stuff is really the word of G-d channeled through people. Whether you believe any of this is the result of human corruption makes it even more a reason to question what really took place 2000 years ago and why there weren't thousands around to tell the tale of the miracles. It's impossible for anyone to say and it all comes down to what you want to believe and I can respect that.

 

Slow down... you have so many assumptions. I will start with the first AGAIN. Did I say it is a Christian nation? Go back and read what I wrote, I don't write big words for a reason, I try to make sure anyone could understand what I write, even if English isn't their first language. You seem to be stuck on something that I didn't even say - please re-read my posts.

It was Christians leaving the catholic controlled government of Britain that wanted freedom to worship how they chose and not by a system that was married to the government.

But, just in case you missed it, go back and read my earlier posts.

 

Do you know anything about history? Catholics are Christians, Protestants are Christians. These sects are no different than Shia and Sunni which are both different sects in Islam.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/abj76/PG/pieces/british_archipelago.htm

America was discovered by Spanish which were actually Catholics. Columbus was a devote Catholic who wanted to spread Christianity to the new world. So your post above is total nonsense which shows your deep ignorance about history and religion.

 

You just stay clueless don't you. Catholics are catholics. The catholic religion was created from Christian beliefs and those beliefs of the society at the time. That is why they have so many traditions that are not in the Bible. I know this is too simple to comprehend, but Christians existed before, during and even now, who are not catholics. A Christian is one who is "born-again" it has nothing to do with a religion it has to do with a relationship with Jesus Christ. (I know that won't be understood by you at all, sorry.)

I am assuming you were raised catholic or went to a catholic school by what you keep bringing to this kind of thread.

 

Can some one try to explain Christianity and it's different sects for debunk in simple language, so may be he can get it? Is there a Christianity for dummies book?

 

He's saying the country was basiclly founded by mainly Christian people and also built up and became what it is today thanks to Christian people. I don't know if you find this to be false, or you're just trying to give him a hard time.

 

Many of the immigrants were from Ireland, Italy and Poland which are Catholics. According to debunk, Catholics are not Christians. Are you saying that USA was built only by white Anglo-Saxon protestants?

 

How about this mister "persecuted"? Who were the first persecutors of Christianity??? Who were the first to kill Christians who at the time were entirely Jewish dudes who accepted Jesus as the Messiah? Who inspired persecution against Christians?? Need I remind you these dudes who should be living in Israel, these dudes who unfortunately have been persecuted for thousands of years so they know what it's like to be persecuted...anyway it's these dudes who as soon as one of their own becomes a Christian they ostracise him and kick him out of the family. How's that for fairness? At least now the Christians stopped persecuting the Jews while at the same time the Jews don't seem to stop. So who's the better or worse one?

 

You need to stop smoking pot, dude, and quit telling everyone that the Jews killed Jesus and persecuted Christians. And BTW, perhaps Jesus got the same welcome you would get if you walked into the Vatican proclaiming that you are Mohammed and everyone there should believe in you and Islam. But the Jews didn't kill him and the other "Christians" at that time. Perhaps you're reading the Mel Gibson prophecy.

"At least now the Christians stopped persecuting Jews" convicts you alone. Perhaps you ought to move to Muslim neighborhood and then understand what it feels like to be a minority amongst other people and what goes on. And then you can explain to me why I can't buy beer on Sunday morning.

 

The ones from Africa aren't important either.

 

You are falling for his lines? Do you not read what I write at all? Who was I talking about? Did I say anything about all the immigrants? nope. I was referring to our founding fathers, but maybe that wasn't clear enough. Something tells me no matter how clear or simple I make my statements someone who hates me will try to make it sound like I am saying something I am not.

I feel like I wrote a simple math problem like 1+1=2 and someone is saying that I said 1x+1z=2z. Really, please read my posts word by word sloowwwwly and don't try to add into it, something I didn't say. It isn't very complex writing. Simple English words.

 

You know that there were people living in America before it became USA and the declaration of independence were written, don't you? It wasn't actually the same people who signed the Constitution who sailed from Europe and discovered America.

 

Hmmm....I honestly think the Jews are a superior race. I mean this with total honesty. After all you dudes invented more things than any other nation especially considering the small number of your population.

I am not sure I agree with your points though. You didn't refute ANY of my claims. So let me ask you again:

Who were the first persecutors of Christians? You like to ramble how you were ALWAYS persecuted by the Christians even though we know Christianity itself was a persecuted religion until about 300ad. Of course the Romans killed Jesus. It was Roman soldiers who crucified Him and who thrust the spear into His side. So technically no question about it: the Romans killed Jesus.

Now, who were the first persecutors of Christians? Let's not forget the first Christians were Jews. So who were the ones to FIRST persecute Christians?

If history is not your strong point (I also have weak points) explain to me again a point which you COMPLETELY avoided: these dudes who should be living in Israel, these dudes who unfortunately have been persecuted for thousands of years so they know what it's like to be persecuted...anyway it's these dudes who as soon as one of their own becomes a Christian they ostracise him and kick him out of the family. How's that for fairness? Why do Jews these days (modern times) ostracise the ones of their own family who choose to convert to Christianity? I'm sure you can answer this simple question.

And just as a side thing: the world's largest Christian organisation that helps persecuted Christians around the world was started by a Christian Jew by the name of Richard Wurmbrand. This dude was imprisoned in Romania for 14 years for going against the atheists/communists and preaching Christianity. He sold millions of books and still died without owning a house or even a car. He even appeared before an American senate committee where he took off his shirt to show the torture wounds inflicted on him by the communists. His website is www.persecution.com This so you know I have nothing against the Jews. BTW, my boss is a Jewish carpenter.

 

So if someone came over to your house and crapped all over your rug and your house, would you give him a medal or show him the door? To the Jews, that is exactly what Jesus was - a charlatan, a false Messiah, yet another heretic. As I said, if someone came into the Vatican and said that he was Christ's father and started his own religion, would you expect the Pope to prostrate himself or show him the door? What if 500 years later a huge religion follows the Father of Christ and it's called Islamican? Would you call the Pope a bigot? The fact is the Romans killed Jesus, as you state later, but to far too many the story is that the Jews basically killed Jesus because someone who denied the existence of G-d - the greatest sin to the Jews - was simply excommunicated from the group because it could not be tolerated. Unfortunately after hundreds of years of brutality there were some notable Christians who spoke up and said "enough is enough." Not sure how familiar you are with history and whether it extends beyond the programs on TNT.

Yes, you do - history is not what you watch in a Mel Gibson movie or even Monty Python's "The Life of Brian" - the point of which I'm sure evaded you.

For the same reason a former Protestant's classmate's family excommunicated him when he converted to Islam. Wow, are you dense. And BTW, every family treats these things differently.

And your point is what? That everyone involved in Christianity shows their torture wounds to the general public? Yeesh, I know you don't represent the Christian viewpoint in the eyes of many but this is funny stuff.

It's the second coming!!!!!! I'm bracing for the apocalypse and the Return of the King.

 

Funny, my boss really is a Jewish carpenter.

 

Let me make it EASIER for you to answer my question so I will give a multiple choice answer. Don't bring other dudes in, don't side track from the question and be fair enough to answer the question:

Now, who were the first persecutors of Christians? Let's not forget the first Christians were Jews. So who were the ones to FIRST persecute Christians?

a) Other Jews
b) Gentiles

And about the Jews not killing Jesus and instead the Romans I agree with the technicality. But at the same time you must also agree with the following technicality: it's not people who kill people it's guns.

Without bringing other people in, answer the following: Why do Jews these days (modern times) ostracise the ones of their own family who choose to convert to Christianity? I'm sure you can answer this simple question.

I consider you Jewish dudes to be superior in many ways and that is why I want a direct answer without bringing others into it, like for the same reason a muslim ostracises another muslim that converts to christianity.

You are supposed to be the tolerable nation aren't you? You are supposed to be an example to the rest of the world aren't you?

And again, so you know I am not attacking Israel I totally respect that Israel is the ONLY country in the middle east that allows religious freedom to all "foreign" religions such as christianity (started by the Jews nevertheless).

So let's see you own up to it and show a straight answer direct to the questions asked.

 

Do you work on Saturdays sometimes? And just out of curiosity: did he ever invite you to go with him to the synagogue?

 

I work on Saturdays a couple times per month, including today for a few hours. He was out of town and I had to be at the shop for a delivery at 6am

And no, he doesn't ask me to come to the synagogue. He told me I can come if I want, but never mentioned it beyond that one time.

Also, he doesn't call it a synagogue, he calls it a temple. Dunno why or if that's an important detail. I am going to go to Israel though next time he goes.