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Tipping waiters in the US tonight

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by uca, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #121
    Actually, Jeremy, I was being tongue-in-cheek, but I need to correct something....Miller is able to put beer in clear bottles precisely because it uses the reduced isohumulone extract. Light has absolutely no effect on Miller beer, as the reduced isohumulone is impervious to the radical-cleaving effect of UV rays described above; no radical, no recombination with sulfur proteins to form mercaptans, no light struck or skunk character in their beer. Compare Miller with an overseas import (particularly a well hopped one, say, From the U.K.) in a clear bottle, and the difference should be evident.

    (A bit of beer geek credentials: Long time brewer, formerly worked for Goose Island Beer Company, Chicago; and received further training through Heriot-Watt, Edinburgh, through their MSc/Diploma in Brewing & Distilling program).

    It's widely known in the industry, but a quick search yielded this:



    BJCP Guidelines - See Lightstruck/Skunky.

    When I worked for Goose, the head brewer at the time, Matthew Brynildson, indicated he was one of the hop chemists responsible for the development of these reduced isohumulone products. Last I knew, Matt was with SLO Brewing. I did another search just now, and found this:
    SEMrush
    -http://www.brew-monkey.com/articles/interview.php?id=1

    Kalsec is the largest company, to my knowledge, providing iso and reduced iso-extracts to the industry, so Matt must have been in on this quite early.

    One of my beers:

    [​IMG]
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 28, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #122
    I don't doubt your knowledge on the subject. Just messing with you. I'm just not a big fan of Miller Beer. Would like to try that Pale Ale though.. Sounds yummy!
     
    Mia, Jan 28, 2007 IP
  3. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #123
    Hey Jeremy - got your pm...sorry, doing taxes so delayed in response. Coming from your home town, I don't blame you one bit! Not a fan of Miller either (at least not anymore), but then, the beers I make go from 7.5-13% abv - I'm too used to huge beers now to go back to light lagers...(though I do love pilsner after a night of Aikido training)...
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 28, 2007 IP
  4. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #124
    About the tipping...

    Guys, you've heard the story about 'When in Rome...?'

    Well, in America it's 15% - more (if you feel up to it) would be greatly appreciated. You're visiting - enjoy and bone up.

    north, I too worked for a well known brewery once, in New York, Ruffian was the beer and they won a gold medal in Colorado for their Porter. I think back in '88. Too bad they couldn't cook or manage worth a dime.

    Many years ago I spent some time outside Palm Springs, in the Indio Valley. They had some pretty leather-skinned characters there. They liked to drink their beer, Coors Light or Bud - over ice. The first time I ever saw that I nearly fell off my stool. Then one particularly scalding afternoon I tried it. Been drinking it ever since.

    Unless, of course, it happens to be an ice cold night outside, and theres some Guinness at hand - with the right amount of - isn't it hydrogen - in it.
     
    Dead Corn, Jan 28, 2007 IP
  5. mothproof

    mothproof Banned

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    #125
    what i hate about tipping is its obligatory nature,, i mean why should i tip when the service sucked. but if the waiter and the service were generally great, then why not a big tip.

    "real world standards" is pretty blurry. but i get your point. i do wish income rates were so.
     
    mothproof, Jan 29, 2007 IP
  6. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #126
    Ruffian - yep, I have heard of it. Unfortunately, a good many that rose on the wave of the micro movement, flush with dreams of big money, just radically over capitalized, fully debt loaded, and when the market flattened out, they went under, having to pay the piper. I think Catamount was a classic in this way. Those that made a strong market penetration - our way, like Goose Island, or Bell's, in Michigan - made it; many did not. I was very close to mounting the first packaging micro in the entire Upper Peninsula (see "Ironbridge" label above) but city politics put the kabosh on the deal at the final hour. I think it was a blessing in disguise.

    Guinness - wonderful beer. In terms of that beaded head, it comes mostly from nitrogen, with some CO2. Since nitro doesn't solubilize as easily as CO2, making it mostly nitro allows the beer to be hit with higher PSIs without being too gassy. Higher pressure, low CO2 content - dense, small, fine bubbles - the Guinness head and smooth mouthfeel. Man, it's 8 in the morning up our way, but it's gotta be 5 pm somewhere, doesn't it? :D
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 29, 2007 IP
  7. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #127
    Hahahaha.... I remember Catamount, btw. Just before my debacle with Ruffian I was operating a club in NJ which had over three hundred bottled and 33 different taps. What a nightmare!!! But I got to try just about everything at the time.

    My wife and I wound up separating during my tenure there. It was an old East Coast style building and the club, five bars and dance floor and all, were in a basement. There was also, oddly enough, a shower in the kitchen. Guess where I wound up moving into? Yep - you guessed it. Slept on the pool table, party till dawn... Talk about a bachelor pad. Again, like I said - what a nightmare!!!

    Well, in this business, and in life in general... you live and learn.
     
    Dead Corn, Jan 30, 2007 IP
  8. WestWing999

    WestWing999 Peon

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    #128
    Bad server gets 15%? Forget that! If I get a bad server the only tip they get from me is a note that reads "don't eat yellow snow".

    If I get a ok server its 15%. If I get a good server its 20%. If I get a great server then its over 20%.

    If I get a gorgeous waitress that smiles at me then I politely ask her if she would like to be the mother of my children. Hey! don't laugh ... it works ... sometimes. :p

     
    WestWing999, Jan 30, 2007 IP
  9. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #129
    When you stiff a waiter, they pay for your meal, in part. The IRS makes a working presumption of 8% tips on all gross sales. Say your bill was $40. You stiff the waiter. That waiter just paid $3.20 of your tab for you, and had the privilege of serving you your sustenance in the process. I guess one has to define "bad," but would have to be downright character disorder for me to do such a thing...outright rude, fine - but don't just stiff, let them (and management) know your mind. But slipping up on an order, etc., then - c'mon. Is the $3.00 - $5.00 tip going to end your life? These people depend entirely on tips to make their livelihood. A little kindness goes a long way.
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 30, 2007 IP
  10. Libertate

    Libertate Guest

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    #130
    I have to say that I am torn. I have left tables a few times where I left no tip. Definitely the service was horrible, and maybe it was my way of forcing that person to an other profession (ok so it sounds like an excuse). I have been eating out about three times a week for most of my life around the world...

    In the US, most often I leave 10% if they are bad. Forgetting orders, messing up orders, not comming back to check on one, being abrupt, cold, impolite, are all part of being a bad server.

    I never, ever leave a bad tip if the food was presented appropriately, but tasted terrible. That failure rests with the kitchen - and I will make sure I let the staff know.

    The wait staff position is a servant job. I don't care how PC you want to name it, the role of the job is to be the temporary servant for the guest. This doesn't justify to mistreat them, but definitely defines where the position should be relative to the guest. If I say I want a Alsacian Riesling with my Lobster tail, don't try to talk me into a Chilean Merlot....

    Maybe we should open a worse/best restaurant experience thread ;)
     
    Libertate, Jan 30, 2007 IP
  11. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #131
    I don't think of waiters in this way. Together with the chef (and cooks), the waiter's solitary job is to ensure you leave feeling your money was well spent - that the experience you received was worth the money you spent, whether $30 or $300.

    To that end, I presume you pay to be given an experience you cannot replicate at home, and so I rather think of waiters as more like guides or navigators; especially at the level you seem to be speaking of, Libertate, professionals who hear your needs and wants, and use their expertise to provide informed guidance. Sensitive enough to provide seamless service, namely, service that fulfills all that you need, while not being obtrusive on the experience you are enjoying with your dinner guest(s).

    I know when I go out, it's a party - the purpose is pleasure. I don't derive pleasure from thinking of the person bringing me my food and wine as my servant, rather, I think of them as someone sharing something wonderful, providing a truly memorable experience; and I pay them (often, handsomely) for the enjoyment therein.
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 30, 2007 IP
  12. Libertate

    Libertate Guest

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    #132
    Let me clarify my statement. I refer to servant, as a gentleman's gentleman, a manservant, not as a lowly class position - but a trusted advisor.
     
    Libertate, Jan 31, 2007 IP
  13. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #133
    Understood. I agree with you.
     
    northpointaiki, Jan 31, 2007 IP
  14. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #134
    One reason for "bad service" is precisely because of this TEFRA type thinking. In the old days you used to have waiters that would stay with a restaurant forever. They were craftsman. They were tradesman. They were proud of their trade. Now we have corporations running restaurants - giving them three tables regardless of their abilities, removing all semblence of individuality.

    And jokers who don't want to leave a tip without, as north, says, bringing the issue to the attention of management.

    We also have the English ;)
     
    Dead Corn, Jan 31, 2007 IP
  15. Libertate

    Libertate Guest

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    #135
    Dead Corn, I am not sure what waitstaff has to do with barter and tax equity...

    I am not clear how 'corporations' have ruined waiting on tables...

    I believe the number of tables, very much correlates with the level of service the restaurant wants to present. The more tables, the faster the service, but less attention.

    I also think it's an inverse relation to tips. More tables, less time to spend on them, ergo less tips.

    There are restaurant chains that will go for quantity, and there are those that go for quality.

    Eh?
     
    Libertate, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  16. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #136
    TEFRA "Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act." It was the act that was decided upon in closed quarters by a Senate Committee helmed by Lloyd "for the People" Benson, that was supposed to decide what to do about the three martini lunch. Well, that they didn't want to completely do away (cut into their gin) with so they made up the slack by announcing "Waiters are the greatest scofflaws in this country" -Lloyd Benson. Crock of shite!

    By trying to standardize all manner of service, from the first thing out of a waiters mouth - to the last. And because they had this need to standardize since they were fueling to go national, they had no time to grow real waiters, so they mandated the amount of tables a waiter could supposedly handle to the barest minimum. Now just go to your local Red Lobster - tell me the average age of their "waiters." Real professionals couldn't live on their wages. And since the opportunities for real restaurants are constantly diminishing - so are the number of these real professionals.

    Because they stink, and so does the service. Like everyone's a damn candy striper, for chrissakes! Masters of mediocrity.

    Certainly for the kiddies.

    Lib... I rented a room to a Scottman from Glasgow for four years. Great guy. But tight as a ducks butt. He was the first to admit they're, the whole "emerald Isle" of them, the cheapest sons a guns on earth :)

    (No offense I hope, but I know why Hadrian built that wall).
     
    Dead Corn, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  17. blackbug

    blackbug Peon

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    #137
    "We also have the English"

    You've managed to confuse the English with the Scots and the Scots with the Irish all in one foul swoop there mate :)

    ...and no, none of us sound Australian!
     
    blackbug, Feb 2, 2007 IP
  18. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #138
    Ah, I see why you are confused. Actually, it was your immortal bard himself, if I am not mistaken, in the character of John of Gaunt, who first referred to the Britain as the emerald isle. The Irish, my blood (half anyway) absconded with it the poesy ;)

    Second, I was not referring to Scotland, or England, in confusion, but as one. But I did not clarify enough. What my dear friend Jim Dougherty of Glasgow said was that everyone on the damn island was as cheap as a {expletive deleted}.

    My final comment was that, all being said, I know why Hadrian built the wall.

    Y'all make good beer though :)
     
    Dead Corn, Feb 2, 2007 IP
  19. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #139

    Hear, hear! Absolutely spot on, and as usual, eloquently written...I couldn't agree more.



    Have to part with you there, brother. Among my other lives, I was a Shakespearean actor (Shakespeare & Co., Berkshires; my own company, Chicago), and actually played Richard II. John refers to "this sceptered isle," in a tragic paean to England (tragic, as he is dying, and laments what his young, wastrel charge, Richard, will surely do with the kingdom), but I don't recall any reference to an Emerald Isle:

    Richard II, 2:1; John of Gaunt is dying.

    There. I'll take the schoolmarm glasses off, now.:D
     
    northpointaiki, Feb 3, 2007 IP
  20. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #140
    Oh, bravo, north!!! I absolutely love it!!! I once saw Sir John Gielgud deliver that one and it was truly remarkable. Somehow he just totally connected with the words he was saying and, I guess as a result, I actually could understand them for once.

    And I stand corrected and thank you and black buck for pointing that out.

    Now, I am no Shakespearian scholar (obviously -lol) but maybe you can help me. I once heard a monologue delivered from a character who was a young man, and apparently he was coming into some money, so anyway he was hanging around with a bunch of ne'er do wells and he basically said something which started with "I will await a while the something-something-something" He was basically saying - I'm about to ditch you and this bohemian life.

    About three months ago I bought about ten plays at a garage sale but it's not in any of them that I could find. I'd love to read it again but cannot find it. Any clue?

    You know, I still remember word by word a sonnet a teacher taught me in the fifth grade. I don't know which number it is, but it starts: "When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes...." It's funny to me because I was never any good in school, and I really can't recall anything else I ever memorized in that vain, or that was that long. My middle child, an eleven year old just memorized the Gettysburg Address, and I was so mesmerized to hear her recite it. I am in awe.
     
    Dead Corn, Feb 3, 2007 IP