Time to restore the republic boys

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by akula, May 18, 2007.

  1. #1
    Yep because the gift we received we have thus squandered and it is time to take it back.

    No worries we are not just at the bottom, we are below the stratosphere:

    Rank Country Amount
    1 China 179,100,000,000
    2 Japan 174,400,000,000
    3 Germany 134,800,000,000
    4 Russia 105,300,000,000
    5 Saudi Arabia 103,800,000,000
    6 Norway 63,330,000,000
    7 Switzerland 50,440,000,000
    8 Netherlands 50,170,000,000
    9 Kuwait 40,750,000,000
    10 Singapore 35,580,000,000
    11 Venezuela 31,820,000,000
    12 Sweden 28,610,000,000
    13 United Arab Emirates 26,890,000,000
    14 Algeria 25,800,000,000
    15 Hong Kong 20,900,000,000
    16 Canada 20,560,000,000
    17 Malaysia 17,860,000,000
    18 Libya 14,500,000,000
    19 Brazil 13,500,000,000
    20 Iran 13,130,000,000
    21 Nigeria 12,590,000,000
    22 Qatar 12,510,000,000
    23 Taiwan 9,700,000,000
    24 Finland 8,749,000,000
    25 Iraq 8,134,000,000
    26 Angola 7,700,000,000
    27 Oman 7,097,000,000
    28 Belgium 6,925,000,000
    29 Austria 5,913,000,000
    30 Argentina 5,810,000,000
    31 Chile 5,063,000,000
    32 Denmark 4,941,000,000
    33 Philippines 4,900,000,000
    34 Luxembourg 4,630,000,000
    35 Trinidad and Tobago 3,259,000,000
    36 Azerbaijan 2,737,000,000
    37 Egypt 2,697,000,000
    38 Korea, South 2,000,000,000
    39 Bahrain 1,999,000,000
    40 Gabon 1,807,000,000
    41 Botswana 1,698,000,000
    42 Yemen 1,690,000,000
    43 Indonesia 1,636,000,000
    44 Peru 1,515,000,000
    45 Israel 1,463,000,000
    46 Uzbekistan 1,410,000,000
    47 Burma 1,247,000,000
    48 Congo, Republic of the 1,215,000,000
    49 Vietnam 1,029,000,000
    50 Ecuador 727,000,000
    51 Bolivia 688,000,000
    52 Papua New Guinea 661,000,000
    53 Namibia 572,000,000
    54 Cote d’Ivoire 460,000,000
    55 Cameroon 419,000,000
    56 Morocco 389,000,000
    57 Bangladesh 339,000,000
    58 Turkmenistan 321,200,000
    59 Equatorial Guinea 175,000,000
    60 British Virgin Islands 134,300,000
    61 Kazakhstan 133,000,000
    62 Cook Islands 26,670,000
    63 Palau 15,090,000
    64 Tuvalu 2,323,000
    65 Samoa -2,428,000
    66 Tonga -4,321,000
    67 Comoros -17,000,000
    68 Kiribati -19,870,000
    69 Swaziland -23,130,000
    70 Sao Tome and Principe -24,400,000
    71 Vanuatu -28,350,000
    72 Micronesia, Federated States of -34,300,000
    73 Anguilla -42,870,000
    74 Cape Verde -44,430,000
    75 Gambia, The -54,610,000
    76 Burundi -57,840,000
    77 Haiti -58,720,000
    78 Tajikistan -73,950,000
    79 Lesotho -75,440,000
    80 Seychelles -78,590,000
    81 Antigua and Barbuda -83,400,000
    82 Guyana -84,300,000
    83 Rwanda -104,100,000
    84 Honduras -160,000,000
    85 Zambia -165,400,000
    86 Macedonia -167,000,000
    87 Belize -173,400,000
    88 Malawi -186,000,000
    89 Ghana -219,000,000
    90 Armenia -247,300,000
    91 Togo -261,900,000
    92 Zimbabwe -264,600,000
    93 Kyrgyzstan -287,300,000
    94 Paraguay -300,000,000
    95 Chad -324,100,000
    96 Benin -342,700,000
    97 Guinea -344,000,000
    98 Cambodia -369,000,000
    99 Mexico -400,100,000
    100 Uganda -423,000,000
    101 Eritrea -440,500,000
    102 Mozambique -444,400,000
    103 Fiji -465,800,000
    104 Panama -467,000,000
    105 Madagascar -504,000,000
    106 Laos -504,200,000
    107 Belarus -511,800,000
    108 Syria -529,000,000
    109 Moldova -561,000,000
    110 Uruguay -600,000,000
    111 Burkina Faso -604,600,000
    112 Mauritius -651,000,000
    113 Albania -679,900,000
    114 Georgia -735,000,000
    115 Tunisia -760,000,000
    116 Slovenia -789,200,000
    117 Nicaragua -883,000,000
    118 Senegal -895,200,000
    119 Thailand -899,400,000
    120 Tanzania -906,000,000
    121 Malta -966,200,000
    122 Jamaica -970,000,000
    123 Cyprus -1,051,000,000
    124 El Salvador -1,059,000,000
    125 Sri Lanka -1,118,000,000
    126 Kenya -1,119,000,000
    127 Dominican Republic -1,124,000,000
    128 Costa Rica -1,176,000,000
    129 Cuba -1,218,000,000
    130 Guatemala -1,533,000,000
    131 Bosnia and Herzegovina -1,730,000,000
    132 Estonia -1,919,000,000
    133 Ukraine -1,933,000,000
    134 Colombia -2,219,000,000
    135 Serbia -2,451,000,000
    136 Latvia -2,538,000,000
    137 Lithuania -2,572,000,000
    138 Jordan -2,834,000,000
    139 Croatia -2,892,000,000
    140 Iceland -2,932,000,000
    141 Ethiopia -3,384,000,000
    142 Slovakia -3,781,000,000
    143 Czech Republic -4,352,000,000
    144 Sudan -4,510,000,000
    145 Poland -4,548,000,000
    146 Bulgaria -5,100,000,000
    147 Lebanon -5,339,000,000
    148 Pakistan -5,486,000,000
    149 New Zealand -7,944,000,000
    150 Hungary -8,392,000,000
    151 Ireland -9,450,000,000
    152 Romania -12,450,000,000
    153 South Africa -12,690,000,000
    154 Portugal -16,750,000,000
    155 Greece -21,370,000,000
    156 Italy -23,730,000,000
    157 Turkey -25,990,000,000
    158 India -26,400,000,000
    159 France -38,000,000,000
    160 Australia -41,620,000,000
    161 United Kingdom -57,680,000,000
    162 Spain -98,600,000,000
    163 United States -862,300,000,000
    OMG
    [​IMG]
    That sux


    But there is hope:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9GkpwFY5Mw
     
    akula, May 18, 2007 IP
  2. turhapuro

    turhapuro Peon

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    #2
    24 Finland 8,749,000,000

    Oh cheese!
     
    turhapuro, May 19, 2007 IP
  3. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

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    #3
    what is this an amount of?
     
    d16man, May 19, 2007 IP
  4. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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  5. akula

    akula Peon

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    #5
    akula, May 19, 2007 IP
  6. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Arnie, May 19, 2007 IP
  7. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #7
    There is no proof that Government Spending in debt is bad for an economy, in fact it may help in the long run because the capital we spend, even if we have to borrow, on our investments will pay off in the future and we will see the returns we need. The only time money is wasted is when it is spent on things that have no economic returns (such as medicare and social security). However if you were to look at my economic plans you would see that I would out-pace spending to a degree that has never been seen on a world-wide scale to finance four mega-construction projects that would return the income threefold five years after the debt spending.

    Most of the time once an investment in capital is completed and the construction ends, or the work ends, you will see good returns. Eventually the debt is paid off. All this hoohaw over "LOLZ teh Nationzal Debt" is just that, a bunch of hoohaw. The only time you should be worried is when capital investments end and you don't make ANY return on them. When that happens, you are not going to have a good economy.

    Right now our return rates are not yet producing because we are not finished with our investments. However the elimination of the IRS and going to consumption tax would speed it along, and we would see a faster return.
     
    Jackuul, May 19, 2007 IP
  8. akula

    akula Peon

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    #8
    Getting rid of the Federal Reserve would get rid of it as well. Borrowing for future returns that pay out in excess of the interest is a sound investment strategy. However when you create the money out of thin air thus creating inflation, you must take this this into consideration into the equation. This is not done because it is hard to put a exact dollar mark on inflation. The mere fact that debt (both governmental and personal) is growing exponentially is a good indicator that past investments are not paying themselves off with current gains. Is it an indicator of a balloon that is soon to burst? I don't know. Does anyone really? Is hyper-inflation in our immediate future?

    If that money was borrowed from the people than the wealth would be invested within the country and remain wealth. However since it is not borrowed from wealth from within, but created from nothing, it is only a transfer of wealth from the many to a select few. This is not a sound investment for the country only for the bankers. Changing the way we pay for this system cannot fix the system. We must eliminate what we are paying and that is the Fed. After that a sound taxation system can be devised.
     
    akula, May 19, 2007 IP
  9. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

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    #9
    The sheeeeeeeeple can relax, Bill O'Reilly has spoken many times lately on the "Oh No Reilly Factor" saying the economy is strong so everyone can relax. :)

    Notice also that the United Kingdom (the biggest US supporter of the illegal invasion of Iraq) is down in 161st place. :confused:
     
    AGS, May 19, 2007 IP
  10. akula

    akula Peon

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    #10
    Two spots but the numbers are not even close.
    161 United Kingdom -57,680,000,000
    163 United States.. -862,300,000,000
     
    akula, May 19, 2007 IP
  11. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Be worried if we hit 2 Trillion. We'll get ourselves back up to 100 billion soon enough. Or if a Democrat is elected we'll get to see what happens when everything is controlled by their party, and then see it plunge to 10 trillion in debt.
     
    Jackuul, May 19, 2007 IP
  12. ReadyToGo

    ReadyToGo Peon

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    #12
    No, there will be no hyperinflation in the near future. There are two policies that determine the money supply: Fiscal and monetary.
    You are looking only at the fiscal policy to come to your conclusion. The reason why we're not experiencing a severe inflation with a deficit spending is because the Fed is balancing the economy.
     
    ReadyToGo, May 19, 2007 IP
  13. akula

    akula Peon

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    #13
    The monetary is a fiat debt based system. We allow the Fed to create money where there was none before. How am I ignoring that? Money is created from debt, plain and simple. The more money that is created through debt, the more inflation. The Fed is not exactly balancing the economy through a sense of generosity. They fully know that creating the ebb and flow of the so called "business cycle" creates a movement of wealth in a the banking industry. The Fed is a central bank. They are a hub of regional central banks that are a hub of individual banks. Fractional reserve system(frs)insures that money can be created through debt. Now I understand that a FRS stimulates growth, but it also stimulates thievery. If I could provide a service that I loaned out something I never had in the first place(lets say cars that I do not really give you or ever owned but still charge you a fee), I could make an incredible amount of money with zero risk. The only question is how do I get into a racket like this and who will provide me protection? Remeber the Federal Reserve Act was initially named the ALDRICH ACT. What a brilliant move to change the name I would have to say.
     
    akula, May 19, 2007 IP
  14. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #14
    I guess they are 'balancing' economy by refusing to report how much money they are printing, to keep the public from converting their dollars into something that maintains it's value. :rolleyes:
     
    demosfen, May 19, 2007 IP
  15. ReadyToGo

    ReadyToGo Peon

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    #15
    Supply of money and creation of money are different. Deficits are funded through sales of government securities, not out of thin air.
    There is a misconception about debt and the fractional reserve system.
    "The Fed is not exactly balancing the economy through a sense of generosity. They fully know that creating the ebb and flow of the so called "business cycle" creates a movement of wealth in a the banking industry. "
    Unfortuantely, this argument is weak because the Fed follows the government, which acts countercyclically; The Fed works against banks (and other industries) at times in order to balance the economy.
    Ok, now about the Fractional Reserve System. Banks can't simply create money to an infinite amount. There is an available lending capacity of the banking system which is calculated by multiplying the excess reserves by the money multiplier.
    The Fed controls the money supply and does not eliminate inflation on purpose. Inflation implies an expanding economy; Disinflation implies a slowed down economy; No inflation implies a stagnant economy; Deflation implies a contracting economy. This is because inflation and unemployment are inversely related (there are exceptions, refer to the 70s).
    A low level of inflation, which is what we have now, is healthy.
     
    ReadyToGo, May 19, 2007 IP
  16. ReadyToGo

    ReadyToGo Peon

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    #16
    What do you mean by "printing money"?
     
    ReadyToGo, May 19, 2007 IP
  17. akula

    akula Peon

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    #17
    Now that is an interesting argument that the Fed (the central bank) is not a bank but an anti-bank.

    Inflation is caused by the creation of money. More money == the devalue of fiat money already in existence.

    This statement is technically correct, but incorrect in design.

    Lets say a bank has a fractional reserve lending level of 10%. The regional central bank for a brand new bank accepts the deposit from investors for 1,111.12. That new bank that hold no deposits or money in their vaults can now make a loan for 10,000. Money has now been created that was not there before and for the porpoise of debt. That money will now most likely be deposited into a different (or the same) bank. That bank can now lend out at a ratio of 9:1 or a new loan of 9,000. Which will be deposited making available 8,100.

    Now this is the illusion of a a roadblock to infinity. I guess you could make the argument of borrowing fractions of pennies and never reaching zero. However that argument is silly. The real truth is much more incredible. Lets say that this continues until there is a loan made for $1,111.12. That money is taken and invested into into a new central bank deposit for a new bank that can now start the process all over again at loaning out 10,000 from money that was never there.
     
    akula, May 19, 2007 IP
  18. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #18
    It's pretty damn close though!
     
    demosfen, May 19, 2007 IP
  19. ReadyToGo

    ReadyToGo Peon

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    #19
    The Fed took power away from individual banks which were in control of the supply of money until 1914.
    I know how the money multiplier functions. Otherwise, I wouldn't have mentioned it in the previous post.
    The above quote is what's worth mentioning. I have never heard of a "fractional reserve lending level," but I'll assume that you are talking about the reserve ratio. The Fed sets a reserve requirement to limit the banks ability to create money. My quiestion to you is: why would they do this if they wanted to work in favor of banks at all times?
     
    ReadyToGo, May 19, 2007 IP
  20. ReadyToGo

    ReadyToGo Peon

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    #20
    Not really.
    Let's say the I deposit $100 in DP bank and the reserve ratio is 20%. This means that DP bank can now loan $80 of it.
    This money is acquired and deposited in DP bank 2. Now DP bank 2 can loan $64 of it. If this process continues indefinitely, the most money that can be created is $500 while maintaining a required reserve of $100, or 20%.
     
    ReadyToGo, May 19, 2007 IP