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Feature Thread Sort Order

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by digitalpoint, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. toycat

    toycat Well-Known Member

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    #121
    Wouldn't an easier alternative be, leave it as it was with options to change back to how it is now? The default option should be the most widely wanted one, not the option that SLIGHTLY reduces spam
    SEMrush
     
    toycat, Aug 6, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. SOULZRIPPER

    SOULZRIPPER Well-Known Member

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    #122
    Now that I have been using it for like a couple of day, I think it has advantages too. Like your new thread doesn't get bumped off to page 10 :p

    But I think people with old service threads are going to take the hit.
     
    SOULZRIPPER, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  3. Bohra

    Bohra Prominent Member

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    #123
    In the Sites section the topics go to 2nd or 3rd pages in about 12 hours if people from other time zones dont go to next pages they wont even know that the site is for sale lol. In some slow moving sections i would say its good
     
    Bohra, Aug 6, 2009 IP
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  4. Imbo

    Imbo Member

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    #124

    I'm going to try and hit on each point you brought up. First it's unfortunate that not everyone on here appreciates or can afford to pay a slightly higher price for a good quality service. In your case, I have personally sold many higher priced items on DP and other forums and can say it's annoying when people expect you to give away your product for $20. Just because, they are used to buying rehashed methods that rarely work for $17, and expect that everyone should sell their product or service at that price. Personally, in your case for High Quality PR services, a site like elance, direct google marketing or other sites are probably much better places to find clients. It's not to say that you won't find a couple buyers here, but in general they probably aren't a fit or the clients you want to target.

    Moving on, to address the fact that it's easier to find products to buy. As both a buyer and seller, I can honestly say that personally that is NOT the case. I looked through the BST section again, and found the results horrible, threads that would have ordinarily been on the 2-10 page are on the first and vice versa.

    The best way to equate the new system. Is a used car lot vs a new car lot. Picture for a moment your looking for a fairly new automobile, and your driving down the street. And lets say your looking for a 2007-2009 ford focus, both the used car lot & new car lot have the same style and type of car you want on the lot (but you aren't aware of this just driving by). However, on the used car lot the ford focus is in the 12th row behind a building and not visable. Not to mention the cars on the street look beat up and you doubt the lot has you vehicle. Now what's the likelyhood your going to stop? Now on the other hand, the new car lot has a lot of shinny new vehicles and your quite positive even if they don't have the focus there is something you'd like. To make it easier I'll even give you a visualization.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully this example really illustrates the current state of affairs that many people are voicing their opinions about. In the past all the "shinny new products" and "hot products" that people were excited about were right up front on the first 1-2 pages. That isn't to say that some products weren't mediocre or being bumped unfairly, but for the most part that was a small fraction of listings.

    As for the time needed to test the new system. Generally if a lot of people are complaining you know pretty soon what the outcome is going to be. 4-5 day's and 90% of the people who have voiced an opinion not in favor of the new system seems like an exceptible time. Let's say you were running an IM marketing campaign, and loosing money each day. Would you continue to let your adwords campaign run for 1-2 weeks or after 3 day's of seeing horrible results stop it?
     
    Imbo, Aug 6, 2009 IP
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  5. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #125
    I truly do appreciate the suggestions, but I actually earn quite a bit here (and I'm smart enough not to rely solely on one income source when running a business). ;) My schedule's usually booked weeks in advance, and I won't have openings for new clients until several months down the line. I'm not doing bad at all, which is my point. I thrive because I've learned how to adapt to the system without having to rely on first page status, by knowing how to build visibility and interest (while demonstrating value to my market here - and there are a LOT of higher paying clients here who simply opt to stay away from BST because they don't want to be bombarded with the lower offers).

    I'm also not sure I get your example. Under the current system is when the "shiny new" offers are up front - not previously. While I'm sorry it hasn't worked out as well for you as a buyer, it has for some - me included. Just over the last couple of days I posted an ad. Yes, it got buried below page one pretty quickly. I linked to it in my sig, and ended up waking to a PM box filled with offers that I'm still sorting out - with great options for a new coder who I desperately needed to hire. I also found the logo designer of my dreams when a search turned up a thread of a guy I'd looked at months back but ended up not hiring. I'm thrilled as a buyer. You have to remember - new threads aren't only for sellers. They're for buyers as well. People have the ability to post what they want (and many do). Those new ads will benefit sellers looking for new clients (although not the more passive sellers who rely solely on their own threads). It's all about adaptation, which is a necessary evil of business (and which doesn't always prove to be a bad thing in the long run). There will always be vocal opponents to change.

    As for the negative feedback, you have to keep a few other things in mind to look at the situation objectively. For example, people who don't like something will always be "louder" than those who do. It doesn't mean they represent the majority. Also, many (although not all) of the people who have complained the loudest have been repeated bumpers (since they're the group we're trying to address with the change, it's no surprise they'd complain). On another note, it's not that no one is happy with it. As time goes on, more people are coming forward saying they are. That's to be expected - they're busy doing business. People don't often come to the S&F area to say they're happy - they come when they're not (meaning there's going to be inherent bias in the threads in this section - as well as any thread where the OP "leads" towards a negative response). Only when you look at all of those kinds of factors, and take them into context based on who's saying them and how much time they've actually spent trying to adapt their business to the free tools they choose to use can we really get a feel for anything. Like I mentioned before, no one's saying the changes will definitely be permanent. But people complaining before they've given people a chance to adapt (including mods who are adjusting on their end), doesn't do much to help or make a case for change yet. So just be patient, give people a chance to get used to it, and then we'll be able to see how people feel. :)
     
    jhmattern, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  6. venturefox

    venturefox Notable Member

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    #126
    I think the new system is worse. It's bad for buyers and sellers because neither gets the right amount of exposure. If a site is popular, more people will post because more people are interested, if more people are interested then it should be pushed to the top for even higher bidding. This new system is seriously flawed, but as with most things, whoever implemented it will refuse to believe that.

    I also think it's a joke how you tell us to change our settings, yet the majority never wanted a change in the first place. If YOU guys don't want to see it like the old listings then YOU change the settings however you like, don't force us to opt in like that.
     
    venturefox, Aug 6, 2009 IP
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  7. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #127
    And as I noted (either in this thread previously or in the similar one open) I've been doing business here since I was a newbie as well. If you want to be in business, it's up to you to convey value to potential buyers to get past any negative assumptions they have about you being new, and that's something we've all had to do since the beginning. If anything, newer members have a better shot of exposure now, not worse because they're not being buried by threads with dozens of pages of bumps attached.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  8. toycat

    toycat Well-Known Member

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    #128
    About your signature idea,


    How is it fair that because DP refuses to break "fix" something that wasn't broke, people are losing hundreds of $? (maybe Thousands for some people)

    You can't rely on signature clicks to fuel your business, you need the interested peple..
     
    toycat, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  9. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #129
    First, if it wasn't "broke" we wouldn't have needed to do something. It wasn't a new idea. It was tossed around several times within the last year alone. We just needed Shawn to implement it.

    The fact that some people are losing money doesn't mean others aren't doing better. Those who learn to adapt will thrive, just like in any system. As I've noted before, I've "thrived" here using that method for quite a while now. It works if you actually work at it.

    As for not being able to rely on something, I could just as easily argue that anyone that serious about being in business wouldn't be relying solely on DP for their income. It's their job to diversify if they don't want to find themselves stuck later, and to operate within the rules and policies of the systems they choose to use. That's a fact of life when you opt to focus on 3rd party avenues of doing business.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  10. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #130
    Anyone who is serious about a business targeted towards webmasters should at least maintain their own web site! Promotion can then be done through SEO, PPC, and SMM. This enables business owners to build lasting value into their enterprises.

    But even without that commitment, there are Craiglist, eBay, Sedo, Flippa, Twitter and dozens of other webmaster related forums as alternate ways to connect to customers.

    With the extremely high rate of bans for posters in the B/S/T forums, it would be just plain stupid to rely on DP for a significant portion of your income.
     
    Will.Spencer, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  11. toycat

    toycat Well-Known Member

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    #131
    didn't say it was major portion just said it was hundreds of dollars.

    for me DP is about 20% of my income

    Why not just flip the siwtch back, and hire more mods? less complaining, more activity = more money for DP, more money for sellers...
     
    toycat, Aug 6, 2009 IP
  12. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #132
    Mods are volunteers...
     
    Will.Spencer, Aug 7, 2009 IP
  13. pro.seods

    pro.seods Peon

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    #133
    After reading through 5 pages of this thread I would say that this is just a needless change made for mods so that their work becomes more easier. Easier in the sense that they can delete useless threads more quickly and without any hard work and of course delete all the bumps and useless posts in the threads..

    I am a seller here on DP and have made big bucks. This is really taking a toll on me and had reduced my income by 60% in a week now. Imagine if this happens with each and every service seller on DP------

    They will, in near future quit on DP's BST section permanently, if not the forum and look for other good free lancing sites and forums. This will reduce the traffic and activeness on DP. And in about 2-3 months, DP will definitely see a significant reduction in it's daily visitors. I think if this rules remains the same as it is for 12-14 months, DP might lose most of the BST traffic including the buyers (as there will be no service provider) as well as the sellers.

    I think there should be a live poll ON DP on each of the forum topic on this matter so that at least 75% people contribute to this for the best answer in people's mind. More than half of the people don't even see this section of DP and are busy in GOOGLE or LINKBUILDING OR BST SECTION. SO a active poll in main forums topic should take place for at least 15 days. This would give good results.

    This is the best DP can do if they do want to change this new setting. OR DP(Shawn) get ready to lose your daily and active users on BST section if not DP.

    Hope my views have some change in thinking of the mods or the admin.

    -pro-
     
    pro.seods, Aug 7, 2009 IP
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  14. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #134
    The number of buyers hasn't changed, nor has the number of dollars those buyers are spending.

    The dollars are just going to vendors who use the new system more effectively.

    Some vendors are losing; other vendors are winning. If you don't like which side of that equation you are on, change your sales strategies.
     
    Will.Spencer, Aug 7, 2009 IP
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  15. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #135
    Even if we had a live poll in every section of this forum, we'd never get something like 75% of members responding. People hear are notorious for not bothering to read stickies, new or not.

    And as Shawn mentioned already (may have been in the other thread - don't remember), overall traffic's been going up since the change. So, so far at least, the gloom and doom "you'll lose all your traffic" kind of comments aren't panning out. But as with any change, polls right now don't mean much of anything. The changes haven't been live long enough, and if people don't attempt to adapt to the new system, opinions on comparing the effects of the two really don't carry a whole lot of weight. You can't compare if you're trying to play with the new system under the old one's rules.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 7, 2009 IP
  16. aaron_nimocks

    aaron_nimocks Im kind of a big deal Staff

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    #136
    No one is going to leave a free place to post their service or product. If you do then your only hurting yourself. If they do quit then they obviously had nothing great to offer and no one will miss them.

    Sitepoint sorted by thread date and charged people! That didnt scare anyone away. Nor will this.
     
    aaron_nimocks, Aug 7, 2009 IP
  17. internetauthor

    internetauthor Peon

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    #137
    Funny. This thread inspired me to go see what all the fuss was about - it was the first time I've been over there in a very long time.

    I think the new order works well if you know how to market yourself properly, but can see that it will be a struggle for those who are used to selling their services or products in a certain way.
     
    internetauthor, Aug 9, 2009 IP
  18. funkymario

    funkymario Notable Member

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    #138
    this has honesty completely killed the concept of doing business in digitalpoint, both for the services providers and buyers, many times a negative review saved me from falling for a scam, and many times a good review helped me snatch a great deal on digitalpoint, the official life of all new threads is now 24 hours.

    i have only two active threads in digitalpoint, one of them is my link baiting service which took me 1 year to build, i have ranked 30 out of 30 people in the top 10, top 5, top 3 and top 1 of Google, each time i rank a client he would write a great review in my thread, now what is the point of writing reviews, nobody will ever get to see my thread again, i am deeply affected by this change, basically my time as a legit service provider is in digitalpoint is over.

    i will not try to tell Shawn how to run his forum, i will respect his decision even if it means the end of my business life in digitalpoint (which accounts for 60% of my monthly revenue), but honestly what is extremely disappointing is that nobody will ever get the chance to see the progress and the development of a thread. even the few ones arguing against my opinion in this thread are agreeing that one shouldn't count on digitalpoint anymore as a source of income and should diversify his sources and look for alternatives, well guess what, the Beauty of digitalpoint and what made it so successful as a marketplace is that you could always rely on it, it was such a great and strong marketplace.

    i believe in god and destiny, maybe it's time for me to move on and stop working for other people, maybe its time for me to move on in life and concentrate only on my own projects, but for the sake of all the people from poor countries, people who were bringing foods to the table of their families thanks to DIGITALPOINT, for those people, and i have outsourced and worked with many of them, i was touched by the stories of many of them, a lot of them told me how their life changed because of digitalpoint and freelancing , for those people; i will just hope from the bottom of my heart that Shawn will undo this change.

    thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2009
    funkymario, Aug 9, 2009 IP
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  19. Love*

    Love* Well-Known Member

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    #139
    Yes, there has been significant rise in traffic on the forum but we can't credit that to the changes made under the BST section because that section is apparently no longer as active as before. We have just upgraded, there are good changes that have brought good results but I don't think it's caused by the changes in the BST section so it's unfair to bring it up and use it against us. After all, it has come up once or twice that the BST be closed altogether? So apparently it's clear to all of us how little the BST section affects DP, if any at all?

    Anyway, I'm sure you guys know what's best for DP and none of you would do anything to cause its downward spiral, so I'm not going to argue any further, I put my 2 cents in, I put my 2 cents out, I put my 2 cents in and I shake it all about, I do the hokey pokey and I turn myself around, that's what it's all about. ;)
     
    Love*, Aug 9, 2009 IP
  20. jhmattern

    jhmattern Illustrious Member

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    #140
    I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone's said that traffic is up because of the BST changes. The point is that those complaining have repeatedly said that traffic would decrease due to them (and Shawn pointed out that isn't the case). That's all.
     
    jhmattern, Aug 9, 2009 IP