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Feature Thread Sort Order

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by digitalpoint, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. Helvetii

    Helvetii Notable Member

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    #181
    I hope that I don't get an infraction (or even red rep for that matter) for posting this. I don't think posting in 2months old thread is bumping and Making a Duplicate thread didn't seem a good idea to me. Other threads on this topic were already closed. I am not making this post to attack someone. Just giving my 2 cents.

    I'm one of the thousands of members who are not happy with this change at all.

    Who Likes This Change?
    -Moderators and Admins because it solves the bumping problem and provides a fair and equal marketplace. Good Enough Reason.
    -Users who don't frequent the BST section just because they have been told its a good change.
    -Sellers who couldn't sell anything themselves because of their own mistakes/inexperience. They think it's good that now no one call sell stuff.
    - Other people who don't like to see others do good business
    SEMrush
    Who's Not bothered by the Change?
    - Majority of the buyers. It's just that they won't be able to spot things so they wouldn't buy them. It's not like they are desperate to get rid of their money. So this change does not bother them. When they don't get to know what's on the market so they don't end up buying it.

    Who Doesn't like this Change?
    - All sellers whether they were bumpers or not. Even those sellers who followed all rules are at a loss because now not even credible reviews bump the thread.[No idea why some people hate the word "bump". Perhaps if you look it as a way in which good products get exposure rather than only a way by which sellers spam the forum, you'll be able to appreciate the concept]
    - Buyers in the Contest Section
    - Everyone Else

    Now I'd like to point out that it's the sellers that make up the marketplace rather than buyers. So if sellers are not happy, the long-term sustainaibilty of a marketplace is not likely.

    The above point made, I'd like to discuss this change from a seller point of view.

    Which Sellers are not affected?
    - Those Who are selling a Site
    - Those Who are selling a Domain
    - Those who are selling Ready-Made Content
    - Those Who are selling Templates
    - Those Who are selling Licenses

    In short anything that is sold just once. If I have 50 sites I can make 50 Threads. Each thread has a life of 48 hours before it gets buried and If I have a good offering 48 hours would be enough.

    Which Sellers are affected?
    - Those Who are selling scripts
    - Those Who are selling E-books
    - Those Who are doing Directory Submissions
    - Those Who are offering Content Creation Services
    - Those Who are selling vouchers
    - Those Who are providing Advertising Service
    - Those Who are providing Hosting Service
    - Those Who are providing SEO Services
    - Basically anyone providing any service

    I could go on and on with the list, but you got the point. Anything that is sold more than once can't be sold more than once or just a few times in the current set-up. And then one can't make duplicate threads. It's basically the small service providers who used this forum as a platform who are at loss. They don't have marvelous looking sites and big advertising budgets.

    "How would you help legit Service providers gain more visibility and exposure for their threads to prevent them from getting burried and completely forgotten?"

    Many people put food on the table from what they earn at DP, yes I mean that. How else can you justify the influx of people from third world countries over here? Because they earn a living over here!

    It's your site, you took the initiative to set it up and provide us a platform, you put in thousands of dollars in setting up the infrastructure and pay the bills to keep it running and I hope you earn enough from all the ads, premium membership etc to cover up the running costs and the real costs as well.
    But what about the members who helped build this forum? Its not just the "Dell PowerEdge 1855 Blade Server " (or whatever) that runs this forum. It's the members and the content created by them and the business done among them that has played the biggest role in bringing this forum where it is today.

    Can they not ask for platform that doesn't hinder their business?

    All that for the 1,455,565 threads and 11,991,865 Posts created by 317,401 members over years which brought in billions of hits to the forum.

    Yes, I do agree that the previous set-up was highly prone to abuse. But the current set-up is anti-business. It may give us an equal marketplace but its equal because no one can do business. So now its equal for everyone!


    My Suggestion:

    1. Keep The Current Thread Sort Order and allow Paid Bumps. Charge $10 for people who bump it up from page 3 or lower and $30 for people who bump it up from page 2. Don't allow people to bump while their thread is on page one. The idea behind making it such high priced is to only allow only those sellers who provide offers good enough to enable them to recover the costs of bumping.

    Honestly, that's no reason.:eek: I would (we all would) like to hear a reason for refusing paid bumps.
    Its not just about the likes and dislikes of the forum staff/owners but also about the interests of the members who helped built it.

    2. Other Suggestion: If the above is unacceptable, change back to the old thread sort order and make it such that posts by the OP don't bump the thread and only posts greater than 500 characters bump the threads. Bumpy posts will be reduced and easier to spot this way.

    The Idea of sorting other sub-forums by last post is to ensure that popular threads attract attention, so why shouldn't the same apply to BST too? Don't popular threads in the BST deserve more attention rather than burial?

    " The BST market is not just for selling items, it is also for that the best items survive. Even if the items are best, the current rules make the thread go with Hades."

    I hope someone's listening.:(

    ~Helvetii:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
    Helvetii, Oct 16, 2009 IP
    wptheme, pro.seods and blog8491 like this.
    SEMrush
  2. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #182
    The current situation is far from ideal, it's not like I'm not aware of that. There's just no magic button to click that is a "quick fix", so it takes a little while...
     
    digitalpoint, Oct 16, 2009 IP
  3. Helvetii

    Helvetii Notable Member

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    #183
    That's understandable, but please keep us posted and ask for suggestions before implementing any change. The community may be able to provide useful suggestions or alternatives. Once something is implemented, its permanent for a few months. Few months is a long time for some :)
     
    Helvetii, Oct 16, 2009 IP
  4. pro.seods

    pro.seods Peon

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    #184
    This thread sort order change has really changed my life. Previously I use to visit Dp like 40-50 times a day. Now it's only what 1-2 times a day. I don't do any service now. Cause there is no use. There are other better forums as far as I think which can help you make money now after these changes have taken place. Damn, I really hate it now.
     
    pro.seods, Oct 16, 2009 IP
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  5. akki313

    akki313 Well-Known Member

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    #185
    Yea.. Same with me.. Previously I was earning like $XXXX per month from DP but now its hard to earn even $500+ (its not coz I provide bad quality service :p its coz people are unable to see my good reviews :D).
     
    akki313, Oct 16, 2009 IP
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  6. AaRGeE

    AaRGeE Notable Member

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    #186
    Whatever.. I think we all argued pretty much! I stop talking about it so you should all aswell (just my 2 cent) .. its Shawn's Forum so he can do whatever he want ..

    Just take a glass of beer in your hand and press your teeths so hard so that pressure of your anger breaks the glass and spread beer all over the floor.

    You will feel good :cool:
     
    AaRGeE, Oct 16, 2009 IP
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  7. Helvetii

    Helvetii Notable Member

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    #187
    I'm hopeful that since now its inescapably clear that things are not going well, Change will come.......It's just a matter of how long it takes ;)
     
    Helvetii, Oct 16, 2009 IP
  8. Brian1970

    Brian1970 Notable Member

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    #188
    To be honest I voted that I liked the new changes to the thread sort order, I have since spoken to a good few seller that are finding it hard now.
    You made some very valid points in your post. I don’t see any long-term harm in a paid per bump setup.

    Thanks Brian
     
    Brian1970, Oct 16, 2009 IP
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  9. Bohra

    Bohra Prominent Member

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    #189
    I Totally support what Helvetii says

    I Am also one of the seller who is affected somewhat due to this..i also feel that even the people selling sites/domains are very much affected with this coz many times the buyers backout .. or due to time diffrence miss the offers too.

    If you want to start with a change perhaps u could change the way the topics display for services section
     
    Bohra, Oct 16, 2009 IP
  10. blog8491

    blog8491 Notable Member

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    #190
    Helvetii has provided a nice explanation, Actually this community is based on both buyers/sellers. If Mods do a favor for both, community will be a great place. Nowadays we can't handle a long time service. That's big disadvantage for us. Specially for service providers. They only get few orders when the thread started. This is not ebay, it's a completely different one.

    Thanks
    Blog.
     
    blog8491, Oct 17, 2009 IP
  11. Helvetii

    Helvetii Notable Member

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    #191
    ^^ This kind of system works on eBay because there's no limit on the number of listings that can be made for the same thing. That's not the case here.

    And Shawn, since you accept that this is "far from ideal" we would really be interested in knowing what you have on your mind for future........:)
     
    Helvetii, Oct 17, 2009 IP
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  12. mdvasanth86

    mdvasanth86 Notable Member

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    #192

    Helvetti is a guy.:mad:

    But, I agree that his suggestion is good.:)
    As people said, there will be change again.But when???

    That will be answered by the admin soon.


    With the changes the admin made initially , I thought he doesn't have any more time to spend on this forum and is optimizing it for a autopilot money making forum. However, the new features that are being added constantly have proved me wrong and I'm happy for that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
    mdvasanth86, Oct 17, 2009 IP
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  13. mrdesigner77@yahoo.com

    mrdesigner77@yahoo.com Well-Known Member

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    #193
    finding a good service provider now is very hard
    1- I make a thread asking for a service
    2- I get at least 10 pm
    3- i check every user who pmed me to check their reputition and itrader and if they had any sucessful threads or not
    4-please return it to the old system atleast for service section only
     
    mrdesigner77@yahoo.com, Oct 17, 2009 IP
  14. joshuaadams

    joshuaadams Well-Known Member

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    #194


    Just a thought...

    In the BST section,
    People just keep creating duplicate threads after 1-3 days of posting their topics.

    So, mods are dealing with "Massive Dupe threads vs. Massive bumping" in the thread sort order issue. What's it gonna be?
     
    joshuaadams, Oct 17, 2009 IP
  15. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #195
    Dups have been far easier to deal with than bumps.
     
    digitalpoint, Oct 17, 2009 IP
  16. bornmad

    bornmad Peon

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    #196
    @Helvetii - nice post and some great points.

    But i dont think we will ever go back to the old system , coz the admin has taken a decision considering everything i suppose.I have no right to say if its right or wrong as its not my own forum.

    But yeah as a seller , its of great concern and due to that i no longer use the BST section as i used to.

    Its sad , but i dont see the old system coming back.So its better to accept than crib.:)
     
    bornmad, Oct 17, 2009 IP
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  17. Helvetii

    Helvetii Notable Member

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    #197
    ^^ No asked to bring back the old system :)

    We are only asking for a platform which is fair to all sellers. I wonder if having all sellers leave the forum is "least bad option"
     
    Helvetii, Oct 17, 2009 IP
  18. joshuaadams

    joshuaadams Well-Known Member

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    #198

    Pay per bump is the only choice. ;)
     
    joshuaadams, Oct 18, 2009 IP
  19. MhW

    MhW Active Member

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    #199
    I wouldn't be surprised if Shawn didn't have a clue what to do. Every time there is a change here the topic gets full of people moaning. Problem is (not pointing the finger at anyone here)...everyone is quick to complain, yet hardly anyone throws suggestions out (or if they do they're really dumb like "this system is stupid! bring back the old way of bumping").

    No...Pay per bump is the easy choice. There are definitely alternatives.

    I have a suggestion but don't have a clue how hard it would be to implement, or even if it's doable inside of vBulletin. The concept is fairly simple - let's say Shawn sets a time limit in Admin Panel, for example 48 hours. Users are entitled to one bump within the specified time period, which will shoot their topic to the top of the first page. Any further replies to the topic made by the OP or any other user are still posted, however the thread will continue to sink until the next 48 hour rotation - whereby the next reply to the topic bumps it to the top of the first page. Or even easier, once every 48 hours a "Bump Topic" link appears for the OP to click which (when clicked) sends their topic to the top of page 1 (A feature already present on phpBB3 *shudders*).

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the idea of the new default thread sort order to combat useless spam and bumps? (I wasn't really active at DP when the change was made). If so, providing a Bump link is a harmless solution for all those involved. It means Buyers can still bump their topic without needing to spam their way to the front page.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
    MhW, Oct 18, 2009 IP
  20. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #200
    It wasn't just spam... it was also just the bumps themselves. If you give everyone the ability to bump their thread once a day (or whatever you set the threshold to), you then will still have the same sale threads on the first page because some people are more annoying active than others.

    The thread sort order/bumping problem is something that is going to be looked at when we get up on vBulletin 4.0. It's just too many core/structural changes that would need to take place and I don't particularly want to do them all twice.
     
    digitalpoint, Oct 18, 2009 IP