This one is for Will "Ron Paul Campaign in Chaos"

More meaningless nonsense. If you have any honest arguments, please present them. If not, you're just wasting all of our time.

Another attempt by you to obfuscate the truth through the use of a straw man argument. At no time did I propose or recommend giving welfare to Mexican immigrants.

On the other hand, both you and the old man who does your thinking for you both support placing travel restrictions on Mexicans. Your denial of this is ridiculously dishonest.

Answer us all honestly: Do you or do you not support the right of peaceful Mexicans to come to the United States and, if they so choose, accept employment here from U.S. firms?

You and the old guy who does your thinking for you both need to brush up on the writings of Thomas Jefferson.

"[FONT=COMIC SANS MS,PALATINO,BOOKMAN OLD STYLE,HELVETICA,ARIAL,TIMES]Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual."[/FONT] -- Thomas Jefferson

You completely mis-framed the welfare argument in a truly pathetic attempt to build a straw man. You completely fail to understand the role of law in society.

By your own judgment, Thomas Jefferson is not a libertarian.

But you are wrong -- Jefferson is a libertarian -- you are an authoritarian who just doesn't understand who and what he is.

That's a complete sham. Paul consistently votes against free trade agreements.

Paul consistently votes to deny assistance to our Arab brothers. Perhaps you recognize this bit of text:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -- The U.S. Declaration of Independence

Yet you and the old guy who does your thinking for you both believe that these unalienable rights are not for all men -- they are only for the select few.

Now, enough with your idiocy. If you have some decent arguments -- please present them!

 

How much time do you have?

You claim to be a libertarian, and you advocate military interventionism.

You claim to be a libertarian, and you endorse managed trade agreements.

You claim to be a libertarian, and you endorse ideological warfare.

You claim to be a libertarian, and you advocate big government via globalism.

You claim to be a libertarian, and you endorse Pax Americana and empire.

I could keep at this all afternoon. The list of your philosophical conflicts is extensive, and the more you post, the faster it grows.

Oh, my bad. You were mocking RP's position on immigration, so I took that as you holding an opposing POV. So you actually agree with RP on this. EXCELLENT!

Despite the weak wristed attacks on me, and the candidate of my choice, you're actually quite incorrect. The dishonesty is yours. RP does not wish to single out Mexicans for travel restrictions.

Absolutely I support this (as does RP iirc). There is a caveat however, since you left the question so open-ended. I expect the Mexicans to come to the United States by following the relevant legal processes. But then, I am sure you also expect the Mexicans coming to the US (or anyone else for that matter) to also follow the law.

Of course, Jefferson was a big fan of "natural law". That includes the right to own property. Private property rights Will. You can't simply pick and choose the rights you want to respect, if and when they are convenient to your argument. Not if you want to be an intellectually honest libertarian (which we have already concluded, you are not).

Calling me an authoritarian does not make me one. So I ask, how am I an authoritarian?

While you mull that over, perhaps you should ask yourself if the government should provide for a common defense? Border security, particularly while we are prosecuting a "war on terror" you so enthusiastically cheer lead, is an important aspect of national security. Now reconcile your open borders approach, to your missionary zeal for Pax Americana and the projection of interventionist military force globally.

When you're done, I'll be waiting.

Paul votes against managed trade agreements. A free trade agreement can be accomplished in less than 100 words. NAFTA is not free trade. Only a fool would argue that point.

Deny assistance to our Arab brothers? An unalienable right (as covered before) which you do not grasp is the right to private property. Paul recognizes that the confiscation of wealth to subsidize someone else, is absolutely not libertarian, and that you would suggest such betrays your socialist and welfare oriented roots.

There are the Arab brothers, the African brothers, the Latino brothers, the European brothers, Asian brothers, endless brothers.

No real libertarian would ever advocate stealing from someone else, to finance their personal agenda. I can't even believe that you try to pass this stuff off. It goes hand in hand with your nonsense about globalism, then claiming you are all about personal liberty. Or that how you respect the liberty of others, unless they aren't living the way you want them to.

Will.Hypocrisy.Spencer

Ball is in your court. Keep trying to prove you are a libertarian Will. I'm Kevin Garnett, swatting your junk into the stands.

In the meantime, you can take a look through Ron Paul's campaign website at http://www.ronpaul2008.com, in an attempt to find some other aspects you can attack as not being libertarian enough for you. Although, with your record on libertarianism (which is very weak) I think it might be a big waste of time.

 

So wait.. because of that statement you took from the Declaration of Independence, ultimately means to fund every religion, race and creed?

If we are to fund Arabs, then we are also to fund Mexicans, Russians, Jews, etc. because, well.. we are all created equal right?

So who's going to pay for the funding of 6+ billion people on Earth? Maybe we should up the taxes for the rich maybe? That would be the Libertarian thing to do!

 

Actually nate, you have to read my response a little closer.

Arabs are Will's brothers, but not Fundamentalist Muslims. He's not for all Arabs, just the Arabs he agrees with. I'm sure he likes Asians, but he certainly endorses the rationale behind attacking North Vietnam.

Conditional love. By confiscating the fruits of your labor. To fulfill his ideological objectives.

He calls this liberty.

Much like his distinction of "peaceful" Mexicans. As though violating your private property rights can be done softly, thus making it desirable.

 

As of Monday, RP said he is still in the race.

I guess with a plus $6million as reported end of January, 08, very little activity in Feb...RP has figured out that running a campaign is more profitable than having a newsletter that spews racist cr@p.

Not only is still in the race and soliciting money..he now has a book for sale.

the guy has figured out that by being a crazy loon he can make a lot of money and he has plenty of followers that will feed his financial kitty.

Of course with plus $6 million he told his supporters that he won't be real active. That means he can sit on the cash.

Other candidates for this serious office treat it with respect. RP uses it as a ploy to make millions.

Its no wonder less than 2% of all who voted in primaries voted for Paul. I'm surprised that there are 2% who are such wacked out suckers.

 

What about all the nutjobs that voted for Insane McPain???

 

If Ron Paul really needs to sell books and solicit donations from voters for a few measly million, he must be one of the most honest politicians in Congress.

I think this has something to do with the federally funded media telling the people over and over again that any candidate who threatens their profit margins is "crazy."

 

AGS: I honestly don't think its the Republican's year. A democrat won the congressional seat of retired Dennis Hastert, former speaker of the House. that is quite amazing.

I believe the American public had it with Bush and similarly has had it with Republicanism in general.

If McCain wins in the general election.....I dunno its probably because the Democratic nominee, whoever it is, gets caught with Larry Craig....doing some kind of kinky dance.

Truthfully these elections tend to swing back and forth. Typically the party in power ultimately f*cks up big time and the majority of the population swings the other way (and I don't mean swining in the Larry Craig fashion )

 

Original Deleted: Not worth it.

@Earl - You're spreading disinfo and lies. I'm not sure if it is intentional or you are just as ignorant as your posts seem to indicate.

To imply the most honest man in Congress is looting his presidential campaign fund is low. Even below the bottom threshold you have set for intellectual honesty.

 

I think the Republicans are doomed to failure mate but I still cannot for the life of me understand how many Americans are supporting Jaun McCain after the Dubya Bush disaster.

 

I want RP to stay in until the end because it will really piss off all the zombies at CNN.

 

Based on his recent comments, he is going to stay in to provide an alternative to McCain. The opportunity to speak to the conservative remnant is too good to ignore.

 

Too right mate.

Can you imagine these repeaters (oops, is that reporters?) having to mention Pauls name? They are going to hate it and on that alone it's very positive, especially when you compare RP's standing (especially on the war) against that stupid gung ho "war hero" twat Insane McPain that wants to kill thousands more American soldiers and innocent civvilians in this fake "War on terror."

 

Actually, the RNC is going to be pissed. They only care about the party membership when they want money. The rest of the time, they run it like an insider game.

I'm quite enjoying Earl and Will continuing to obsess over Paul, after they believe he is no longer relevant. Looks like the revolution is picking up steam.

 

See, Paul is the bad guy to the Republicans. He represents everything that they've failed to deliver their real conservative base, and if we refuse to vote for a horrible candidate like McCain, they'll put the blame on the Ron Paul supporters when Hillary or Obama wins. "Those crazy conservatives stopped our plan to get McCain elected!" They won't blame McCain, or the fact the Republican party has made too many promises to too many segments who are essentially at ideological conflict - no its much easier to simplify it as "Them crazy, us smart"

How else are you going to hold together a party that covers Jesus, small government, and eternal war?

 

He needs to remain in the mix mate.

Also, I'm not an American but find it very nauseous the way Jaun McCain always says "my friends" all the time when making speeches.

He is as fake as a Bush smile.

 

The content at the beginning and continuing until the top of Page 2 with the lies and utter bullshat was enough to make my brain melt in disgust for the populace. I love the U.S.A., mmmbut I think the people are are mind meltingly retarded at about a 2:1 ratio.

To keep from proceeding; to delay or to hinder in development. -Thanks MSM

 

"Republicanism" = neoconservatism <> conservative

That's the whole crux of the problem and why the GOP is facing a wave of people eager to right the ship.

 

I agree with this, although probably not in the way you see it.

Conservatism essentially meant fiscal responsability from the government. It didn't necessarily mean slash and burn of the government. It spoke to limited government, in a a defense of the individual. As practiced by most people with common sense it didn't see the government as all evil.

Regardless, it appears most voters have a problem with current practices of "republicanism". Its too bad for the party that a solid base wishes to continue to tie itself to Bush administration practices. There are many who have various levels of disagreement with the Bush administration. Still in the primaries the candidates, (excepting Paul) danced around supporting the president before the party faithful.

On the other hand the voters in primaries and caucases roundly didn't want Paul.....he didn't get 95% of all votes. His own philosophy is viewed as extreme and distasteful with not just a majority...but an overwhelming majority of activist republicans.

I think Republicans should return to a focus on fiscal responsability....its too bad they have strayed so far from these former beliefs.

 

Why don't you like the way I talk my friend? My friends, I think we have a hater on our hands. This man clearly does not like my friends. As we have seen before ,my friends, he has a bias towards my friends. My friends, get together and hold one another's hands and ask , "why my friend, does this man criticize my friends?" Thank you my friends, and I hope you vote for me this November, because I'm the real Liberal.. I mean Conservative!