just wanted to post and say thanks to everyone who gave me tips and hints recently. my site has finally cracked the search engines and now up there(despite knowing very little before joining the forum) for all phrases, i couldnt have done it without the feedback, help and comments from this site - superb and thanks to everyone - keep up the superb work thought it would be refreshing to have some positive things on here. my main tip - patience - like all good things it just seems to take time and effort