There! I thought this title would get your attention And while I have your attention, allow me to voice an opinion on yet another topic that is on my mind often. Some people on here, love to jump on the fact that I make no secret of the fact that even these days I still take on the occasional $1 per 100 words job. Those people consider those wages to be part of what I termed Slave wages, and while I agree that this rate is to low to warrant high quality articles, I still produce them at that rate, if I have a good reason. So why do I continue to take these jobs, while I have plenty of high paying clients, in all honestly I don't have to take on any job offered for a long time, considering the waiting list that has been building up the last few weeks. Yet I still do. One of the main reasons I occasionally accept that type of job, is when I am dealing with a content buyer that I find to be basically a decent bloke, in a tight position. For example I am currently helping out a start up operation from Canada, that have put everything they own on the line and put it in their online business. They are in dire need of content, but can't really afford the good stuff so to speak. In this case I am consulting them for free on the SEO part, and charge $ 1 per 100 words for anything I write for them. I'm not counting words either. Is this rate below me? Absolutely, yet the cause is worthy, and to me this decision is good business, not greedy business. A little while ago, another job came my way at $ 1 per 100, the bloke in question,(A very nice guy) started a horror movie blog, needed reviews, but again, no budget to purchase the quality kind, and not enough skills to do it himself(he tried, the result was dramatic). I accepted this for two reasons: 1. I love horror movies, so writing about it is a snap for me, and 2. again I was dealing with a decent bloke, who meant well, just lacked the funds. As a plus, this gig got me another review job at premium rates($ 0.04 per word), so it was even good for my business as well. Now, I know how the above reads, and believe me I do not intend this thread to be a "look how great I am" thread. I just wanted a chance to explain my views on it without all the bickering and attacking in the other threads. So the moral to this story simply is; that having high standards is great, penny pushing content buyers should be tarred and feathered and led to the door, but the honest business owner, who is just in a tight spot and needs a helping hand, should not have to get the short end of the stick because so many others mess up the market. It is OKAY to occasionally accept a lower paying writing job, if there is just cause. What classifies as "Just Cause" of course is in the eye of the beholder. And to those that love to jump on the fact that I do occasionally write a $5 article: What have you done for your fellow man lately?
Well Kraven, this one gives me a second thought. As I see a different angle, which I do not know matches yours. This might be okay, when first setting up and rising. I have had some clients start small and become huge. However, mine were the professional market. With the get-rich-quick ones, I would have a doubt. Way back at 18 in sales, I remember an old woman, bare walls, etc., go into the back room and come back out with $1,200 cash. Also happened with a person living in a truck camper trailer. Tiny table, but all cash, because the correct emotional need was struck. When the business golden egg slowed down a little, I raised the minimum order from $100.00 to $300.00 it did not hurt sales at all. My feeling is that few people can run a business, including writers. You end up with a slew of beer writers writing part time, and holding others down. Empathy should be for kids, not too much for those going from client and client, bidding and begging. May sound cruel, but I learned many years back. All transactions are a sale. Either you sell them, or you allow them to sell you. ----------sorry beer writers, but you need the boot-----or start learning to run a business--------without upward movement, you are as good as the flat beer author---------
Very true, and you won't hear me saying you don't have to be careful. On the other hand that type of risk comes with the territory, and so far, I haven't steered wrong. In fact some of my highest paying clients, started out this way. It's Karma, what goes around comes around. I do however, check out new clients carefully
What I see Kraven is that you have a gift to attract attention. It's a great gift for those who are selling a service. What is funny about this is that you are combining something of real interest to you with this non insulting self promotion. So far so good. I am carefully watching you and reading your posts. As they say around here you have to steal your craft from the experts. Cheers!
Kraven has crafted very fast from the experts and has remarkably improved this forum. He has show than it takes courage and determination to plow ahead. Now he is a true leader, helping and sharing and guiding others along. When most people finally get this way they get overly egoist. Instead he admits he has climbs many steps, and once you take the initial ones the rest become more enjoyable. I, for one, endorse him completely, but let he too comes under attack. Not by people more knowledgeable, but those that want to hold him back. Little do they know leadership glows through and the whole world takes on a new meaning of opportunity. Fortunately in Kraven's case, he shows you that if he can can do it, you can too. He cannot push your foot forward, but once you do, he is their to help move you up and motivate you. With all the deep pits made by others before, plus the fewer snipers that are still around, it is tough to break this new ground. So let him be inspiring, as his intentions are not self motivated. It is remarkably against the odds, for people, like you, who have been here longer, to realize it is the future that counts.
Well, as they say: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force the horse to drink. As for climbing the ladder, it is a good thing I have no fear of heights, as you showed me a ladder that is considerably higher, then I anticipated, when I met you @ kelebrimbor: Thanks(I think?)
Nice thread you have going Kraven For many this "just cause" is putting bread on the table , so they write for those rates we have started referring to as beer money or even what you refer to as "slave wages" . Potato - Patato. Dyadvisor is correct about the lady with 1.2k and you are also correct about the decent bloke who had no money. That's just perspective and you can't always be sure that the decent bloke is just not sponging off you - but if you do believe in the cause go ahead and help all you can - you will win friends for life .
I see your point, but I have one that may differ. If these people do not have the funds to pay for professional writing, should they really be going into business at this point? Someone starting a business should sit down from the beginning and figure out how much money they need to get started. They should consider writing and design fees, Web hosting fees, business license/registration requirements, etc. If it's a brick and mortar business, they need to consider rent and utility costs, zoning requirements, etc. If someone who intends to make money from something does not have the money to pay a writer, then he's not in a very good position from the get-go. It's nice to volunteer services to those who truly need it, but you have no way of knowing if someone is playing a sympathy card just to get free or really cheap content. At least if you donate services to a charity, you can write it off on your taxes.
I hear you, and to an extent agree with you. However, I have been working online ever since the web became available to the general public. I have done almost anything one can do to make money on the web, and there have been times I landed myself in dicey situations, I could not have come out of if I had not received a helping hand from others in the business. Networking is one of the main important factors when running your own business, the one you are helping now, might be the one you need most, a little further down the road. Sure, there will have been clients that suckered me, no doubt, but the end result outweighs that with ease, as i now have an extensive network of clients, partners and even friends in a business where I make the bulk of my income. I see lots of things returning, from that network. Clients who get referred to me, clients that are impressed with my client base, and many more benefits. Having a decent standards of rates is great, in fact it is your cornerstone. All I am trying to say is don't become blind because of those rates, and don't be to egoistic to not lend a helping hand when a situation warrants it. Karma is a bitch, and what goes around comes around.
topcontentwriter very great point I have done by the nature of my business dealings done at lot of consulting. Most new businesses go under. I almost went under. The new IRS agent was the hand picked example from the class, working with the instructor to take every cent of my cash. So my advice is NO. Reason, 95% of regular businesses (full time ones) fail in their first year. The two main reasons are inability to manage a business and running out of money. My advice would start on money, figure out what you need, and then triple that. If you can do that without borrowing money you might make the 5% than continue on. You are forcing the person to face reality. Almost everyone, has the "my own Business" dream. They are using you as a crutch. Are they going to get free gas, a free computer,etc? The other interesting point is that most writers do not run a business. Or have business thinking. If you run a store you need customers, if you are a lawyer you need clients. These firms actively go after convincing people they need their services. Every writer is selling their services, that means they should be actively hunting down clients. Instead they work for nothing, submitting writing to places that then find the buyers. I bet less than 1% have ever sent out a almost cut and past email form. An attorney will pay $40 for a ad click. And writers just sit back trying to get $8.00. Show a professional business (I have a list of over 100) that are prime to pursue. So thanks topcontent writer -- you clicked my old memory back. If someones suggests, I will make a post of the top 100 types of business you should pursue. If anyone wants I will make a form email letter to use with these services and post it. Plus if any one requests, I will open you up to over 12 free professional writer groups you should belong to, to list a few at the bottom of your sample or email.--------------------------------------------
Good and truly sound advice. Words to live by I would say. However, I could not help but noticing no comments on the networking aspect of my reply?
Well Kraven, networking was not directly mentioned. The wrong networking can get you wasting a lot of time with useless busy work. Yet you are getting nowhere. I would compare it to a businessman standing next to a handicapped person (or a homeless person with their hat out.) All day long you stand there, smiling, shaking hands, and giving out business cards. Meanwhile the other person is just sitting there with hat outstretched. At the end of the day, you spent $50.00 on business cards, and need to take your clothes to a cleaner. The homeless person leaves with $50.00 cash. So my third offer, although I did not mention it, included networking along with a tremendous amount of benefits. All Free. The Problem Was That writers have to Think of Themselves as a Professional-------------
I agree with you there. It takes the right mindset. Guess I have always been a natural at networking, as I never had much trouble getting a web of contacts in any business I ventured into. In fact some of that has come in handy even when I started writing, as some of my first decent jobs came from my past when I was working off site SEO
That's a great point. "What goes around comes around." I am helping a writer for free right now. She's a single mom with a lot of bills and she's trying to earn money from home so she doesn't have to leave her kids in daycare. I'm launching a writing boot camp in the near future, so I offered to coach her and let her use all of the boot camp materials for free. We will both benefit: she will get the benefit of individual coaching from someone with extensive experience, and I can use her success as a case study to market the boot camp.
Excellent project as well. Me and DY are doing something similar but more SEO oriented. We should compare notes some time
Good work TCW - the eternal rule of "what goes around comes around" is applicable in almost every sphere of life. You are doing a good thing and it will help your Karma in a very positive way. We need more of you around here.
Even when sitting on the side bench, we people are having maximum benefits. What still surprises is, why these legends are spending their time on these forums...! Thanks!
because we can. We can afford to. I always say if you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I solve problems, not cause them. Keeping that in mind I see lots of wrongs that have to be made right, on the writers scene. I didn't know it all when I started full time with this almost 4 years ago, but I got through it and got to a point where I could just do my thing and live comfortably. Dyadvisor, in turn kicked my butt and with it boosted my skills to levels I did not know existed. Like him, I feel it is time to give back to the community. He has his reasons, I have my own, which simply is good business not greedy business. There is a global market out there, and it is big enough for all of us, there is plenty to go around. Time to get the writers(The real ones) to write instead of surviving $3 per 500 words at a time. All I am saying is that the road to climb above the beer money slave wages, should not in turn make you blind for genuine situations, where you could have provided a helping hand. As they say: All in moderation
I'm just curious: Does anybody have any clue what kind of timetable that whole "what goes around comes around" thing takes on? I mean, in all of my business operations, I've been basically making a wage that most people couldn't come close to living on (and I only can because I'm a tight@$$). And I also keep to a couple of personal rules that apply to both my writing operation and my rental property: 1. If I wouldn't consider it fit for me, I won't subject anybody else to it. 2. I tell the truth like I'm on trial, 24/7. They can't fault me for being honest, and they can't swindle me either. 3. I work on the future. I don't bother with things that won't last at least 5 years, and I at least flirt with the notion of what I do being here in 100 years.
Karma can't be rushed, and there is no telling how long it takes. All I am saying is that it is good to have a sound network of contacts. Right now I have a waiting list, that hasn't always been the case, and in times when jobs are scarce its good to have contacts that can keep you writing.