The "ultimate" excuse...

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by yo-yo, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. #1
    Any time they want to side step the law, break the constitution and walk all over any kind of human rights they see fit the government simply uses the word "terrorist" and gets there way... here's the latest case:

    So let me make this very clear:

    With the patriot act in place the government can come to your house, drag you away in the middle of the night, and never tell anyone, and can hold you without a trial, a judge, a court, a phone call, no rights... indeffinently. No proof is needed of anything other than you're "suspected".... now they want to pass exemptions so the CIA can TORTURE people that haven't even been proven guilty of anything!!!

    WHAT IS AMERICA COMING TO!!!!! All the freedoms we claim to be bringing Iraqi's don't even exist here anymore!

    Source
     
    yo-yo, Nov 4, 2005 IP
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  2. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #2
    They are not stupid people and what are the odds of it happening to you? What are the alternatives? More terrorist acts on American soil? Personally I find security in these measures. It's the bleeding hearts that will bring down America and Canada will fall with them.

    I undestand it's not an ideal situation, but with the way the world is it needs to be done.
     
    Roman, Nov 5, 2005 IP
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  3. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Do you not believe every human should have some kind of rights UNTIL PROVEN guilty of crime?

    I'm so sick of these COWARDLY BULL SHIT EXCUSES like omg terrorist terrorists they're everywhere! These laws are only affecting terrorists it could never happen to you! blah blah blah blah

    If the law has been distorted and changed and now ALLOWS IT TO LEGALLY happen to you who's to say that it can't or won't!? If these laws only targeted terrorists why don't they have to be proven guilty of a crime?
     
    yo-yo, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  4. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #4
    Is it an infringement on rights? Yes.
    Will innocent people be affected. Yes.
    Will it save lives? YES!

    You and I hear what the press wants us to hear but we are both very ignorant. There are terrorists plotting to detonate nukes on American soil and we need protection as harsh as it may seem, without being in the know don't critisize too severly, you just might get your way.
     
    Roman, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  5. maldives

    maldives Prominent Member

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    #5
    Presidend Bush is definately not the ideal man to lead America. Everywhere he goes, he is greeted by mass demonstrations. He is Mr. Unpopular for the most of the people living in this world. I like Clinton. Did a good job, have a good reputation around the well, & represented America at its best in the Internation Community.
     
    maldives, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  6. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #6
    yo-yo I went and read some of your previous posts and you seem to be one of those anti-this and anti-that people. The problem I have is you just complain. Terrorism is a real threat, what are your solutions?
     
    Roman, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  7. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #7
    Yes terrorism is a real threat and needs to be dealt with, however anything that goes against or even smells like it could go against our constitution I or anyone else who trully loves this great nation will oppose it. Those who tremble under 'fear' and 'terror' to allow anything that could damage our constitution IMO are just as dangerous if not more so than the terrorists themselves.

    On that note, good night all :)
     
    GRIM, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  8. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #8

    I don't think anyone is trembling under fear. I hate politics and know nothing about them, but I believe there is some kind of war act that makes what they do fall within the rules of the constitution.

    Regardless, do you think these terrorists would give the slightest value to the constitution let alone your life. No, they would kill you, me and our kids in a heartbeat. Times are changing and we need to change with them or become obsolete.
     
    Roman, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  9. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Notable Member

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    #9

    I wish the government would come to your house and drag your whiny little butt away. It'd be one less crying little poster's complaints I'd have to read. If they tortured you then that might even do you a little good, maybe even grow you a backbone.

    With all of the capitalized words, exclamation marks, and angst in your posts I feel like I'm reading some teenage girl's Xanga post about why her boyfriend broke up with her.
     
    Hodgedup, Nov 5, 2005 IP
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  10. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #10

    I was getting around to that in a discriminate manner, but there you go, the cat's out of the bag now.
     
    Roman, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  11. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Notable Member

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    #11
    Yeah I'm very blunt, it's part of my charm. :D

    I hate listening to all of these people whine about how the government is going to drag them out of their homes and torture them. I mean what the hell are you doing that you really think this is going to happen?

    I mean the only people that should really be afraid of this are people that have something they are trying to hide.

    Think about how many people are in the US. Do you know how long it would take to drag everyone out of their house? :D
     
    Hodgedup, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  12. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #12
    Excellent post. Look at the looters in Louisiana. Imagine what society can be like without the government being able to execute their job. With the ongoing threat of terr0r it's even worse. The best thing would be if it wasn't necessary to have these laws, but unfortunately it seems as if we do.
     
    Blogmaster, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  13. mcfox

    mcfox Wind Maker

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    #13
    Looks like a case of history repeating itself.
     
    mcfox, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  14. latehorn

    latehorn Guest

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    #14
    I don't find how torture will prevent terrorism more than detaining them in custody instead. Hard punishment in general have no affect against the crimerate, look at texas.

    But I must also admitt that the first post was like a letter from an angry kid.
     
    latehorn, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  15. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #15
    Of course they 'terrorists' don't give a shit about our way of life, our constitution, or what the country was founded on, I however do ;)

    'Part' of the legislation may not be against the constitution, I was responding in general about part of the patriot act of which was in the first post, and
    The bold I may have no problem with, with the exception that this was the white house's revised opinion, so what was in the first?
     
    GRIM, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  16. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #16
    I have nothing to hide Hodgedup, I do not believe me or my family is going to be dragged out of our house. That however is not the point, I will be against anything I feel is against the constitution even if it does not apply to me.


    Case in point I don't own a gun, but I more than likely am more pro gun than anyone on this forum.

    I was raised religious, I however am not very religious as an adult. I however do believe in a 'slight' seperation of church and state but however am sickened when children can not even have a bible study group or prayer in their school as long as it is not forced on anyone.

    Two situations that do not apply to me, 2 situations however I will gladly argue for when I believe they have gone to far or feel they go against what the country was founded on or the constitution.

    Maybe others are using it as a bleading liberal stance, that however is not my personal reasoning.


    ---edit I see hodged made a post but after 5 attempts I still don't see it ;(
    Finally loaded now :)
     
    GRIM, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  17. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Notable Member

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    #17
    yo-yo just got slammed by latehorn. That's funny.


    Texas doesn't have the highest crime rate. If you’re looking at violent crimes committed look at South Carolina, New Mexico, Florida, Illinois, Nevada, Tennessee.

    http://encarta.msn.com/media_701500272_761558964_-1_1/Crime_Rates_by_State_in_the_United_States.html


    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/
     
    Hodgedup, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  18. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Notable Member

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    #18
    Who would you rather see inconvenienced or hurt? Terrorists or your family?

    If a man has been training with a terrorist group and comes back to the US and is detained does that really make you feel sad? I mean do you and the family throw a little prayer out for him like you would for the families of the people he could have killed?

    I would have a problem if it were happening all the time. It isn’t.
     
    Hodgedup, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  19. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #19
    I have no problem with anything being used against non US citizens and as in your example someone who came back from a 'terrorist training' I would think the possibility could easily be laid out for treason of which again I would have no problem with. My beef is not with it being used for this type of items, my beef is when it's being used against actual US citizens for other circumstances of which the patriot act already has been.

    Who would you rather see inconvenienced or hurt?
    I'll take the risk for injury or death over the erosion of any right.

    Terrorists or your family?
    I think the question would be better A. safety/ B. constitution I'll take option B.
     
    GRIM, Nov 5, 2005 IP
  20. Hodgedup

    Hodgedup Notable Member

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    #20
    I am a firm supporter of the Constitution as well. It's a great document that is more than a document. It's over 200 years old and there are issues that the founders of this country never imagined. Tell me if you think that Benjamin Franklin every imagined terrorist activity from citizens of this country or terrorist groups attacking and killing people.

    At the time Franklin didn't like parts of the Constitution.

    The Constitution has been amended and rightfully so. It might be time for another amendment.
     
    Hodgedup, Nov 5, 2005 IP