"The self delusion that plagues both sides in this bloody conflict"

The self delusion that plagues both sides in this bloody conflict

Another view on coflict and imho great analyse of thing going on there.

 

The greatest battle against any oppression is never killing innocent people. Gandhi showed the world that civil disobediance can create miracles. He did this and gained freedom. MLK learned this from studying up on gandhi, why cant all people in this world learn it also.

 

India independence was because England knew that they can't fight an armed struggle in India and not because what Gandhi did or did not.

 

Gandhi and MLK's tactics made it clear who the oppressor was. In the south when MLK and his people started using non-violent tactics and the racist whites still used violent tactics against them, it became clear to the rest of the country what was going on and who was being oppressed. By creating such a stark contrast, MLK got the whites behind him, which is what needed to be done to really change things.

If the Palestinians are truly an oppressed people they will gain much more by putting down their arms and letting the rest of the world witness the oppressive acts of the Israelis. The only thing they are accomplishing by firing rockets at civilians and blowing themselves and innocents up is to further damage their case that they are the victims and further the perception of Islam as being a not so peaceful religion.

 

If the world had witnessed the oppressive acts of the Zionists since long before Palestinians hold arams, and seriously wanted to put an end for it, then Palestinians wouldn't have hold arms to defend themselves.

 

I think that most of the world sees the mask wearing Palestinian rocket hurlers as war mongering barbarians. There is a pretty sure way for them to change that perception.

 

you did not get the point, they reached to a level of desperation in the world, international laws, international community, UN resolutions ..etc do you think they would care now how the world sees them? no matter how the world sees now, it sees them, before the world did not see them at all.

 

So now that they have the world's attention maybe they should think of using it in a way that may actually do some good instead of sticking to the most hardline interpretation of Muhammad's words about fighting the infidels. Repeatedly attacking Israel and then getting your ass kicked is no way to go through life.

 

they are doing lot of good in practicing their right in fighting occupation.

 

If "doing good" is being martyred so they can get virgins in heaven, then yes, indeed they are. In the meantime, in reality here on earth...

 

try to keep your hatred for Islam and Muslims out when you come to post on these threads, Palestinians have the right to resist occupation, same like so many nations before and after them who resist occupation, the Ghandi experience you are suggesting them to follow it, was not the only experience out there, it will work with the British occupation, and at that time, since its an occupation that it's main purpose was to make use of the people and the natural sources there, and not to ethnic cleanse them, it's the right of the occupied to decide which way to follow, not the right of the occupier to dictate on them how to follow, if the occupation wants an end for violence, they need to end the occupation which happened also by violence.

 

by the way, you seem so much admiring the Ghandi experience, but it also seems that you did not read his writings about the Palestinian cause, in which he said:

 

I believe that perception is changing, finally. More and more people are starting to see these savages for what they are and learning the truth about islamic scriptures which perpetuate such evil towards Israel.

imad, there are still muslims that occupy parts of Israel's lands. Israel has the right to resist those occupiers. Israel's lands have been occupied by others for centuries and it doesn't look like they are going to allow the savages to occupy them any longer.

 

you wish lol, it looks like you did not see Bush and how he been thrown in history trash bin, you may want to follow him.

oh really! you should speak on UN because it says Israel is the occupier.
oh oops, I forgot UN is anti-Semitic.

 

I don't hate muslims or islam. I hate the lack of capacity for reason and compromise that seems to permeate that world. And I hate the fact that people like you justify the actions of terrorists no matter what.

The Palestinians aren't helping their cause by blowing their self up or shooting rockets towards innocent Israelis. But the fact that it's not a reasonable solution to a problem doesn't really matter to you does it? What matters is that they continue to do what mohammed said without consideration for what progress(or lack thereof) it has yielded them in the past.

And the reason I put more blame on the muslims in this case is because there is a global pattern of the same behavior. Whether it is riots over cartoons or violent acts that are carried out in order to establish islamic states in Russia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Kashmir or other places, there is a common thread that binds them all, an uncompromising adherence to an ancient book that was conceived by a man who had visions in a cave and had no proof to back up his claims.

 

I know its hard to keep your hatred for Islam and Muslim away, you speak as this conflict started yesterday, when the peace negotiations were going on, and there was no violence, Israel were building settlements and cutting the lands so Palestinians could not have their Palestinian state, you were not there then to speak anything about it, and the world did nothing to stop it, so peace require two serious sides not one, else it will be considered surrender, and surrender is what Israel and those who supports Israel want, but they can't get it, and will never get it.

so if you are honest about your calls for peace which I highly doubt it, you should follow Ghandi, in what he said, since you admire h im so much, not pick from his experience whatever you want and try to apply it where it been tried already and did not work,

he was speaking about the Zionist terrorism and nobody listened, much longer than you started to talk about "Palestinian terrorism"

 

I've never been under the delusion that Bush was hated by muslims, despite the fact that he gave freedom to so many muslims.

That is a good tactic though, to invoke Bush and hope some liberals will come to your rescue. Do you think it will work?

Source? I agree the UN is anti-semitic, it shows all the time. Israel is a member of the UN. Perhaps the madrassa didn't cover this little gem in Rock Chunking 101?

 

I care less about what Gandhi said and more about the consequences of his actions. If the Palestinians are an oppressed people, let them stop heeding the words of an ancient book which obviously isn't working and try a different approach. If they are truly oppressed and oppose the Israelis with vigorous non-violence, the world will take up their cause. The Hollywood left would salivate at this chance.

 

sorry but what freedom you talking about?! are you high or what?

 

I think that if they put down their arms, there won't be any oppressive acts of the Israelis to see. Unlike many of its Arab neighbours, Israel has only ever defended itself (albeit sometimes very forcefully and always pretty successfully) against attacks, and has never once been an initiating aggressor. This seems not to be at all difficult for all the rest of the world to understand and constitutes much of the background to most foreign governments' attitudes to and relationships with the whole region.