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The secret to my success

Discussion in 'Publisher Network' started by slava, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #121
    " I fed my family a hot plate of ethics for dinner..........
    Afterwards they still complained they were hungry"
    SEMrush
    " I'm sending the car insurance people a letter on ethics for payment this month... and I am going to note how unethical it is for them to raise my rates due to others having accidents"


    Famous quotes by me ;)
     
    Sem-Advance, Nov 16, 2006 IP
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    SEMrush
  2. slava

    slava Peon

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    #122
    nice post, lol
     
    slava, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  3. vito

    vito Peon

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    #123
    Lovely. It amazes me how some of you are so willing to publicly broadcast your acceptance of suspect business activity in a public forum for all to see. You are clouded by the "end justifies the means" mentality. Again, justify poor behavior all you like. It still doesn't make it acceptable.

    And if you understood anything about actuarial science, you would understand why insurance companies charge you based on your age group, gender, etc. Nothing unethical about that. And even if there was, how in the world does that justify this shill activity? You're desperately grasping at straws, and looking foolish at best.

    Vito
     
    vito, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  4. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #124
    Fortunately, that is just your opinon.

    If you think about things.... some may look at you hopping up and down on the ethics trail as someone who's grasping at straws due to not earning any money, or perhaps they think your eccentric......is this the true persona of who you are?....it's doubtful....but everyones entitled to opinions and

    opinions are like ass_ _ _ _ s Everyone has one ;)

    Next insurance rates have little to do with science... and much to do with math and statistics.....

    Lastly what I post in a public forum to drive home a point to posts going nowhere.... has little to nothing to do with my character.

    Speak for yourself... but never speak for me... as you do not know me!!!:mad:
     
    Sem-Advance, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  5. vito

    vito Peon

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    #125
    The epitome of hypocrisy and self contradiction. Reread your words before you post. You have no clue about my earnings, yet you draw conclusions. :rolleyes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuarial_science

    Way to (try to) divert from the point of my post.
    Really? You should rethink this, as people judge you based on what you post. What else have we got to judge you by? ;)

    Vito
     
    vito, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  6. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #126
    I did read my words ergo why I said "some" and not me.

    Who said I was here to be judged?? ?? LOL

    See this is the unknown and why people should not make rash statements.

    The ones who matter will know how to judge me,, and those who don't matter......well they don't matter....

    Edit ....If we use your analgy of judging.... people could look at your avatar and determine you're here to monkey around and not a very serious person...

    Dont judge a book by its cover??? ;)
     
    Sem-Advance, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  7. karagold

    karagold Peon

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    #127
    people judge me from what i post? who are these people? and are they really qualified to judge me? and do i really care about the judgements of strangers? and what does this have to do with anything? do we really care about the ethics and practices of virtual strangers? and are these discussions on the theory of ethics supposed to alter someones ethical values and force them to conform to someone elses ethical values? and who is to say one persons ethics are more valid than someone elses? ethics are like morals. they are personally defined and cannot be truly judged by outsiders. live and die by your own ethical values. and keep it to yourself. this forum is about ypn, not about ethics. i thought this post was supposed to be about one persons way of increasing their revenue. when did it become a holy war on ethics? go back to college if you want to philosophise on the theory of ethics. and if you are the "victim" of these unholy ethical practices, shouldnt you complain to the higher powers instead of chastising others for their practices? and if it is so wrong, shouldnt the powers that be do something about it?

    here's a great quote i found somewhere;

    Never get in an argument with an idiot, he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

    Slava, i bet you never thought your little post would turn into something like this. if i were you i would be turned off by the whole "information sharing age".
     
    karagold, Nov 16, 2006 IP
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  8. invincible.vib

    invincible.vib Peon

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    #128
    Well i totally agree with you...those who are just trying to be more on advertisers side should remember that...are not wasting money on your site...and they are not doin big favours to you by advertising on your site....

    Its all about business....the are doing their business and they are earning far more than webmasters....

    Well each and every advertiser tries to bid the lowest amount on advertisment...well it is good business!!!

    what if tomorow some advertiser comes and discusses how he gets to pull out the lowest paying ads on any good website....so would it be unethical???

    So IMHO everyone is doin business, weather advertiser or webmaster....and you should be free to choose your business stratagies!!!

    Even after bidding on your site and getting the CPC high by $1 those avertisers are still bidding higher...then that means that they are still making profit after paying $1 higher...so i don't think it is unethical!!!

    There are lots of other cheap techniques (like clicking on their ads a lot to drain out their advertising budget etc.. etc..)these advertisers use to get some advantages over their competitors....well i think they are unethical!!!
     
    invincible.vib, Nov 16, 2006 IP
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  9. vito

    vito Peon

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    #129
    Stellar, guys. Stellar comments.

    YES, you are judged by your posts. If not, what the hell do we measure you by? And you don't care what others think of you? Your problem, not mine. IMO, the Net is a small world. And I earn my living online. And when I post in a public forum, I reveal facts about my level of character, ethics and practises. Are you sure you want any of your potential customers reading your posts in this thread? I certainly wouldn't. And when someone leaves you positive or negative feedback in your DP profile, what is that based on - other than the quality and nature of your forum posts? You are definitely judged by your posts. Again, if the result of that doesn't concern you, that is entirely your problem.

    Yup, petty name calling is surely the high road when trying to intelligently debate a topic. Well done. ;)

    If you took a second to actually visit my sites, you would see that Babu is my site mascot at DemoDemo.com. Again, cheap and childish personal insults are not the way to intelligently contribute to a healthy debate.

    Vito
     
    vito, Nov 16, 2006 IP
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  10. karagold

    karagold Peon

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    #130
    i wasnt calling you or anyone an idiot - dont be so defensive or insecure. i was merely stating a quote that i found perfectly suited to the idiotic nature of this so called debate on ethics. (not what this thread was originally about)

    i am anonymous. nobody knows my name, my sites, my location, my age, what i do or what i sell. thats the beauty of the internet. so, no i dont care what people think or about my virtual reputation. in fact, i could care less about all of you or your successes / failures / opinions. i come here for knowledge from like-minded people. my measure of success comes from a much better place.

    so no. i am not judged by my posts or my online activites. i am judged by the man i am in the real world and not by the man you barely perceive in the virtual world. opinions are a dime a dozen. im sure you are well worth your weight in gold.

    the question becomes, what do you care? why give all this energy into a "healthy debate" that has no right or wrong answer? do you think you are smarter or better than somebody else? do you think you are more right? i make no claim against you or anyone. i dont know you. but you cannot judge someone based on your perception of the ethics of their practices. thats like judging non christians for not believing. you are no more a scholar in ethics than anyone else. take a course on ethics. one of the first things you will learn is that its all debatable and its all about perception. and when the line is so diluted, neither can you be right or wrong.

    now tell me that it is illegal to do what he is doing and i will agree with you. it is unethical and he should be put to death. but its not. and if its not, then you have only an opinion on the matter. perhaps the time has come to keep it to yourself.

    jmo
     
    karagold, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  11. invincible.vib

    invincible.vib Peon

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    #131
    Oh this thread has some very good posts:)

    Hay karagold i've read some of your posts on ethics...and i really like them:)
     
    invincible.vib, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  12. karagold

    karagold Peon

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    #132
    this thread has become a joke. i only participate for my own amusement.
     
    karagold, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  13. invincible.vib

    invincible.vib Peon

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    #133
    well thats tru...but the original post was good...allthough i was knowing that trick earlier, but anyways thanks reminding me:)

    And well i have seen some nice posts by you on ethics!!!

    Well i too had done a bit of debate on this ethics thing(but i am an Libran, so like discussions and try to get good points out of it rather than jumping on who is right or who is wrong)...and your posts were quite informative to me:)
     
    invincible.vib, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  14. vito

    vito Peon

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    #134
    karagold, I agree that I probably should not invest any time or effort in this type of thread - in the end, it is pointless - I will (seemingly) never convince anyone to change their thoughts. But I personally feel that I abide by a very strong set of business ethics. And I usually end up defending them to the bitter end.

    When I started DemoDemo.com 4+ years ago, I was the first in the industry to do so. After a year or two, there were several so called "competitors" who did nothing but copy/paste my content into their product and put it up for sale at a reduced price. There were also many who tried to steal my content without paying for it rather than placing an order. As a result, I gained a renewed and more reinforced appreciation for "proper online ethical behavior" since it touched me personally.

    So when I read a thread about someone boasting about exploiting his OWN market by artificially inflating bids, it makes me very angry. Personally, I find this activity reprehensible and unethical. So I speak out. That is why I bother to expend the energy to post in such threads.

    Vito
     
    vito, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  15. invincible.vib

    invincible.vib Peon

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    #135
    Well thats business!!! Everyone has right to earn more money...advertisers are also doin their business....if they get a chance they will try to get an ad on the least possible payout...on how good the site it...they don't give a damm about the quality of site...and they won't give you extra bucks by donation just coz you let them get some good profits...And i don't think it is unethical for the advertisers to try or actually bid low on your site and get money....they are doin their business, and webmasters are doin their own!

    And reps added to Selva for
    1)this very innovative idea...
    2)to disclose it publically to help others...this is information sharing forum:)
    3)putting up so much time in discussion about this topic
     
    invincible.vib, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  16. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #136
    I wanted to answer a question for you as to whether I care what people here think.......they are going to think what they want no matter what I do....

    Next I was not insulting you or your mascot logo... I used an analogy....I personally could careless what you do or use as an avatar.

    Learn to read Vito........it is an important skill....

    Sticking words in other peoples mouths... anyone with basic education can do....
     
    Sem-Advance, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  17. karagold

    karagold Peon

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    #137
    vito,

    contratz. you have started an online business and faced the same challenges all successful webmasters must face and you appear to have overcome them. those things that happened to you by others is not about ethics, that is criminal activity and there are laws in place that protect you, should you have the money, time and desire to defend yourself.

    but, i think you have misread slavas technique. he is not artificially inflating his market. he is becoming a valid advertising competitor (with hopes that his competitors will raise their bids) he is not forcing his rival competitors to increase their bids. he is paying for the traffic and clicks at the price he puts it at for as long as he keeps it there. where the diluted line comes in is this; when his competitors say no way i want to be number 1, i want more traffic, let me raise my bid, he is dropping out and attempting to cash in via published ads on his site. (you are all right, this could be considered unethical - but only by opinion). and this is where the discussion of ethics starts and also must stop. he paid for his high priced traffic. there is no false bidding or false inflation. if the competitor advertiser is too stupid to lower their bid and continues to pay more than they have to, then its not slava being unethical and its not that he is inflating the the market. the market value has in fact been set, not by slava, but by the other advertisers outbidding him. its advertiser joe being a dumbass. i advertise. i check each and every bid each and every day to ensure i have the position i want at the lowest possible price. that is my responsibility as an advertiser spending my own money. and i also make a concious decision NOT to advertise in the content network. and when someone outbids me, i may in turn outbid him. my choice. i even look sometimes to see who is outbidding me. i find it funny sometimes when i am being outbid for a kw that my competitor doesnt even sell. but is he being unethical by outbidding me on traffic for a product he doesnt sell? the answer is no.

    very fine line indeed. opinions are the only straws we can grasp. with that being the case, neither can we be right or wrong. so please, no need to argue, insult, degrade or debase eachother.

    as always, jmo
     
    karagold, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  18. vito

    vito Peon

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    #138
    karagold:

    I have no intention of insulting anyone (unlike others). However, if someone takes offense to my comments reflecting a very real set of ethics that I believe in, I can't help that.

    Your description of what slava is doing is (arguably) valid - but only to a point. The fact is that he is not legitimately advertising in order to garner more traffic to his keyword-based site in order to increase his site product sales like his competitors are doing. He is merely bidding against them for the sole purpose of artificially inflating his market so that, once he quits his paid AW campaign, he will reap the benefits of higher paying AS ads on his site. Do you not see the difference?

    BTW, you are the first person in this thread who has argued slava's position with any credibility or sense of decorum, so I appreciate your posts. :)

    Vito
     
    vito, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  19. karagold

    karagold Peon

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    #139
    vito,

    again, my comment about insults was not pointed directly at you or anyone in particular, but to everyone in general. i wouldnt do that. i dont know you. and you are definately entitled to your opinion on ethics. i cant debate that. that is the whole point of an opinion.

    "arguable to a point". that is exactly my point why ethics cannot be intelligently discussed on this topic.

    yes, i do see the difference. but, my point is that they dont have to increase their bids, they dont have to keep their bids high once "their" competitor drops out, they dont have to advertise on the content network (so he can make money on their ads) and its not his responsibility (ethical or otherwise) to justify why he is outbidding them. and i agree, because his sole purpose is to make more money via the increased bids, it could be considered unethical by those that perceive it as unethical. it could also be considered innovative by those that perceive it as such. neither party is wrong. my argument was that ethics is theoretical and cannot be so easily defined as right and wrong (even right and wrong are debatable).

    but i also disagree that he is artificially inflating the market. the market is regulating itself by the choice that is given to each advertiser. if they chose not to increase their bids, the market would not inflate. if they chose to lower their bids after he dropped out, the market would not inflate. but they choose not to. they choose to raise their bid, they choose to keep their bids high when they dont have to. they choose to compete against him and eachother. and they choose to publish their ads on the content network. now tell me that they have no choice but to increase their bids, then i agree. tell me he isnt paying for the clicks at the increased price, then i agree. tell me they have no choice but to publish on the content network and i agree. tell me that they are more justified in getting the traffic than he is because he is not directly selling their product, but instead selling their ad, then i agree. but the fact is, he is selling their product. he is getting traffic for people interested in a product, giving them information on that product and providing them with paid advertisements to get that product. and he does all of this without charging his visitor. so, what is he being paid for? the service of referal. i have the visitor (by whatever means i got them) and if that visitor legitimately goes to your site, i should get paid. this is the whole point of the publisher network in any platform. and truly, if the content network was so unprofitable for an advertiser, they should, could and would opt-out. again, choice. nobody is being forced into anything. as soon as you take force out of the equation, ethical validity breaks down and turns into mere opinion.

    and im not really arguing in favor of slavas position but more over, im defending the topic of it being unethical. i just dont see it that way, which again, validates my entire point.

    again,

    jmo
     
    karagold, Nov 16, 2006 IP
  20. vito

    vito Peon

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    #140
    Dang it, karagold, if I wasn't so steadfast in my staunch self-righteous position on ethics (as I see them), I might actually be inclined to agree with your argument. :(

    You make a compelling argument. And I agree with many of your points. However, I am forced to come back to the point that slava is only advertising in order to drive his market prices higher. You can dissect the strategy all you want in different ways, but in the end, the only reason he is advertising is in an effort to drive his advertisers' bids higher for his own personal gain.

    Sorry, but I just can't get past that point.

    Vito
     
    vito, Nov 16, 2006 IP