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The return of Slavery

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #161
    If you think I started this thread for myself you would be very wrong. I don't hunt for jobs here, nor anywhere else. Thankfully I have reached a point where those that seek quality content, find me or get referred to me through clients already with me. However, I do look at the BST section, and notice it sliding down hill.

    I am not crying because I cannot compete, because the truth is I do not have to, I am in a different league, and have been for almost 6 months now. But I did start out, like so many of the writers here. Though my rate was never lower then $1 per 100 words, it was hard enough to even rise from there.
    SEMrush
    I am however living proof that with skills you don't have to accept those slave wages offered, I also know that when you are a newbie, like I was almost 4 years ago, it is so easy to get taken advantage off. It is for those I created this thread, because now I noticed the offers reaching ridiculous levels.

    Of course I do not expect that DP is going to step in, but it was a good line to get some controversy going in this thread, and well, 8 pages down the line I would say, it was quite effective.

    I got a lot of honest opinions, I raised a lot of awareness, I see it right now in the BST section, where people from those 3rd world countries are saying I won't work for pennies on the dollar, I have the added rep in my account to prove, people agree with me, and I honestly enjoyed the opposed views, like you are giving yourself.

    We got things out in the open, and are discussing it. I firmly believe some buyers go to far, to a point that it is below business ethics, and they have to be stopped, just like those types are in any kind of business and need to be stopped there as well.

    The difference being that in the other areas steps are taken, but on the writers side of things, I see no such movement, so I decided to stir the pot.

    You are looking at the result :)
     
    Kraven2, Jul 1, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. touchserv

    touchserv Guest

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    #162
    fantastic I'll do that don't worry . i found this place very informative i am very thankful to all you guys thanks a lot.
     
    touchserv, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  3. angelswriting

    angelswriting Peon

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    #163
    For some reason DP has a large number of threads where there are people offering slave wages for writing. I have never seen the sheer amount of under .50 cent per word job offers that are posted on here anywhere else online. I think DP is a wonderful forum and there are some great work leads here so I don't want to give the impression that it is anything to do with DP. It is just so popular that I think every type of offer is going to be found here.
     
    angelswriting, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  4. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

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    #164
    oh, did you really !!
     
    WebBuddy, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  5. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #165
    OnurSQL: You are one of the few, trying to squirt fluid out of a nickel or dime. My experiences go contrary to your statement that the market will find the balance. If you explored internet websites close enough, you would see most business owners still apply brick and mortar logic to the internet. For this reason, the bricks need to be repaired with better mortar. Meaning, hardly any professional business sites are content built correctly.

    I can name (or give you a list of) over 100 professional service business, that do not know the slightest bit about the market value of writing. I just received an email, from someone noticing my name, asking me for a no holds barred opinion of the website. The site looked fantastic, but was suffering from visitors. It also needed reworded and quality content. My initial solution to establish ability and proof was to write an article for a article directory and a rewrite on the website professionally written. I concluded that my price is $300.00, but I could pass it to someone I am helping with writing perfection for $60.00.

    Now you said the market rate is determined. I say that is only true for the sweatshop buyer. I intend on getting this, and then giving the job away for free at $60.00. My learning writer will benefit and so will the BMW car website in Switzerland. Plus this could lead to more work. That is the price, take it or leave it. It seems that is far above your market rate concept. This is currently a $10 writer, on his way up.

    So buyers promoting “Clickbank” and other low profit products may control those $4.50 writers. It appears that you are a price shopper. That means that if I have a writer use a professional strategy, that I personally guarantee to outperform 100 of your articles, you would shutter at the very reasonable $100 package price.

    Ultimately, when it comes to professionals, a professional writer sets the market rate.
     
    dyadvisor, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  6. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

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    #166
    I have to agree. I also visit the BST section and love seeing competent writers raising their rates. If this thread did that then it was very effective and it got results. Writers everywhere should know this is what had to happen in order for us to start getting paid closer to what we are worth. I bet the buyers are going to start being aware of this thread soon and they will be coming here to tell us why we writers need to accept a penny a word. Its almost like we have come together and now its time to tell the buyers what they are going to pay not what they want to pay.

    But, we have to let others know about this thread. I putting a link to it in my sig.
     
    gvannorman, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  7. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    #167
    At DP it's very hard trying to find good paying jobs. I have tried to find jobs making around $40 per day without killing myself and being able to trust the client but I have not found anyone yet to take me up on this offer. I do write for .01 per word, and I do offer basic Squidoo lens services for people and I do this only because people tend to be struggling right now and I want to help them out. With me not having a job in real life this is something I depend on. Scary, eh? I do get swamped with articles and orders, I have to turn some down but hardly any of them would be willing to pay over .01 per word because they just can't afford it. I would be willing to put those top paying clients first if I could get something for $40 per day with doing a few articles that would be detailed but you try raising your prices on DP and see where it gets you. Another part I believe is just competition. While I don't mind doing these things at this rate I must agree it does get tiring sometimes and I feel undervalued with some clients plus I get frustrated. What's bad is when they want to give a huge 200 article order and expect to pay only $200 for that order. I have tried places like craigslist only to be hit with spam. I don't know if my ramblings really matter but yes (wrote on this thread before but yeah, I had to vent again), I can see how and why it would appear to be like the return of slavery but at the same time, I just don't know how many people actually can afford those quality writers.

    Please note: I am not at all trying to promote my services but I am just using my experience and ratings to add into the conversation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
    DreamingBig, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  8. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

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    #168
    It is always nice to vent. Everyone needs to do that just to keep themsevles from going insane. Now, you are trying to find a job making $40 a day, with no luck. You are working for a penny a word. Are you worth more than that? I would say that you are. Try upping your rates to at least 2 cents a word. You would be able to do the same amount of work, plus make twice as much.

    I am not sure how many articles you have, but I am willing to bet that you are getting around 5 or 6 articles day. This is giving you 35 or 30 bucks a day. Double that and your making 50 to 60 bucks a day. Its not that these guys can not afford it, they are thinking why should they pay that amount because there are so many writers out there that will charge less. That is the thinking that we need to change.
     
    gvannorman, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  9. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    #169
    I usually do between 10-20 articles per day. Sometimes I do around 30 or write until my fingers just can't take it anymore lol. Yes, if I could do around 5 - 6 per day at .02 per word that would be ideal (maybe even 10) and I can take care of other things that I need to do instead of just being hooked on the computer around the clock. I think another problem is finding a client that would actually be dependable and stay with you at that rate and not ditch after he/she gets what they want. You are right about with the way they think. They see all of the offers go up at .01 per word, or less and see another post at .02 per word and might think, wow that person really is DreamingBig lol :) I agree with you on that we do need that change, after all how else do we expect for the economy to get better if clients just continue giving their workers slave wages?
     
    DreamingBig, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  10. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #170
    One: a good first step would be to lose the rates in your signature. It kills all advantages during negotiations.

    Two: While talking to the client explain to him why you charge what you charge. When someone comes at me wanting a high profile SEO piece, I explain what such a piece is, what it takes to create and how it benefits him. In other words KNOW your business.

    Three: You best clients won't come from job hunting here, they will find you through other posts you make here, and be impressed with your writing style, another reason why you should lose those rates in your signature.

    Four: Squidoo lenses are popular these days. Build a few in popular niches, then auction them off here in the BST section. I can't tell you what you will make, but it will be more then the $5 you are getting now.

    That's what I can think off, just going by what I just read from you.
     
    Kraven2, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  11. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    #171
    Hi Kraven2,

    - Thank you so very much for the tips. I've changed my signature!

    - That's a VERY good idea. Now that I am thinking about it talking it over with him/her is for sure professional.

    - Done.

    - I really should get around to making some more. I just haven't had the time with article writing.

    Thanks again, I really appreciate your tips and advise.

    Kari
     
    DreamingBig, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  12. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #172
    DreamingBig, you've got to start living up to your name. Start showing prospective clients that you're in this for the long run. Invest in a dot com domain, get a free copy of Wordpress and start building a storefront. I know all that takes money and time but consider it an investment.

    The private deals I've received through here were always closed after the member saw my website. A website can showcase your talents much better than any signature ever could.
     
    YMC, Jul 1, 2010 IP
    Kraven2 likes this.
  13. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #173
    Now that's good advice if ever I read some.

    In fact DreamingBig, I will meet you half way. Come up with a domain, register it and I will host you and set up a Wordpress for you to run.

    No charge.
     
    Kraven2, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  14. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    #174
    I have thought of doing that before but I don't know exactly how to set one up.
     
    DreamingBig, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  15. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    #175
    OMG, that would be awesome!!! Thanks! I'll pm you for further details!
     
    DreamingBig, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  16. gvannorman

    gvannorman Well-Known Member

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    #176
    Dreambig, I believe that you can use the godaddy code soccer99 and get a dot com for 99 cents.
     
    gvannorman, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  17. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #177
    DreamingBig your thoughts are getting me down a little. You have already personally convinced me you have the needed talents.

    Quit worrying about saving the world. When China invades the writing world with sweat shops, even $5.00 jobs will be gone. In the Philippines the current rate is $2.22 per hour, not article.

    Start learning now before it is too late. Do not hide behind cheap work, as you are being used. Do not have any pity on buyers. As I have proven again and again, even those selling a Clickbank product can afford to pay $10 per article.

    When you start working with true business clients. Not the get-rich-quick type, you will see the prices rapidly rise. So spend a little less time sweating, and a little more time learning.

    I have quite a few free self-confidence, positive thinking ebooks that any DP member can get from me free, just for the asking. ---------------
     
    dyadvisor, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  18. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

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    #178
    Hello again dyadvisor :)

    I hope that you're doing alright. My apologizes for getting you down some, I just had to do some venting and now I feel much better. I think that I'll take you up on the free ebooks offer. Feel free to email me any time, you have my email address :)

    Thanks,
    Kari
     
    DreamingBig, Jul 1, 2010 IP
  19. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #179
    Just reading them will do no-one no good.
     
    lightless, Jul 2, 2010 IP
  20. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #180
    You are as lightless as your name on that remark. You are saying books like Think and Grow Rich and Science of Growing Rich have no value. That is only true to those that read them with a negative attitude. Checking your posts, you are skeptical of everyone one but yourself. Wow, what an outlook on life. Were you born with this supernatural talent, or struck with some bolt of lightning? I am glad I was not that fortunate.. Off course,if you choose to think in your, you have to apply the principles that work for you. Are you so vague to think that the people here think concepts just work at the sound of light, while they stand back. Lighten up. I said that to be kinder than saying brighten up.

    What special glow have you EVER provided to this section. Where is your original post, we can shoot light beams off. This is a great post, that does not need light headed thinking but someone that can only provide advice with an attitude. I do not know when you avatar stands for. I only know it is not a mark of being righteous. Now go ahead and attack me, but please start your own original post first. You can do that, can you not?
     
    dyadvisor, Jul 2, 2010 IP