1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

The return of Slavery

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    31
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    160
    #81
    I believe they are 50% of the problem. You already know the other half of the problem.
    SEMrush
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 14, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. PHPGator

    PHPGator Banned

    Messages:
    4,437
    Likes Received:
    133
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #82
    I would be up for regulating the price. Obviously I have been doing content writing off and on here at DP for quite a while now, definitely longer than the average. I have seen the price slump come and go. What I have ALWAYS found though is that there are one of two things that will happen to people accepting such low priced work or advertising that low of rates for their work.

    #1: They will realize there is more profitable things to do with their time.

    A lot of those content writers are just getting into internet marketing. They are just getting into the idea that yes, you can make money online. Therefore, they are willing to work an hour for pennies. However, the more time they spend on these forums the more they see others taking their content they wrote for $0.50 and turning around and making substatial profit on it. What normally happens is that they give up those wages and start attempting to do other internet marketing work that is more profitable in the long run.

    #2: They have poor work.

    Many writers have come and gone from here that think that they can advertise their content as "unique" and then they are found to have taken it off a small website that they think no one knows about. Their mentality that they can scam people and get away with it only lasts for a few buyers until someone runs their work through copyscape.

    Either way, most of them quit and then the price goes back to the standard $0.01 per word or higher. I think this is a pretty fair rate depending on how lenient the buyer is. I have turned down work a lot just because the buyer seems a little to specific. For $0.01 per word I prefer having a keyword and you letting me run with it. Beyond that, I don't want any outlines or requirements on keyword density or anything else. I want to write naturally, and then hand it to you with the agreement that the grammar will be custom to Native English and without errors. Beyond that, the keyword will be in there at least a few times, but I didn't try to "stuff" them in the content. If you want more or less, it should be the buyers responsibility to verify and modify it as needed at that rate (IMO).

    If you are paying a little more than $0.01 per word, then I think you have the ability to be more specific about what you are looking for.
     
    PHPGator, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  3. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    18
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #83
    I usually also ask for .01 per word and I love doing content keyword writing. I do agree when they start becoming demanding and pushy it makes you want to bump it up to .02 per word. Lol, to bad we can't say : .01 per word for the nice clients, and .02 per word for the demanding ones! ;)
     
    DreamingBig, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  4. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    404
    Best Answers:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #84
    It's unfortunate that Kraven used the term slavery - perhaps a less emotional phrase would have been "sweat shop master who exploits uneducated writers."

    Sweat shops were staffed by hundreds of folks willing to accept below average pay rather than starve. Thankfully, most civilized countries have made sweat shops illegal. The Internet and it's insatiable hunger for fresh content has seemingly brought back the sweat shop on a global scale. In this situation, there's no dark, cold and dirty warehouse to raid where half-blind and crippled workers await rescue. But, there are folks around the world working their hearts out for wages far less than what their output is worth.

    Writing, particularly on the web, has virtually no barrier to entry. Join a free forum, banter about that you can write and suddenly you're a "professional writer". Unfortunately, these unskilled laborers, many of whom are "writing" via copy and paste, are driving down prices for everyone. It's no wonder people in poor parts of the world would jump at the chance to get paid a day or better's wage for a single article, even if that wage isn't enough to buy a loaf of bread in the rest of the world.

    I doubt that we could ever convince these folks to demand higher pay. When you're starving, you'll do anything to get money.

    Where the blame lays, IMHO, is with the buyers. It's bad enough when I see 1st world buyers offering these pathetic prices but when people who live in the 3rd world countries are offering these rates, it seems even more exploitative. With so many buyers not even caring if the writing is something that's actually intelligible it makes things even worse.

    Yeah, I know, the buyers can't afford to pay "high prices" for what amounts to Adsense bait. Let's change the scenario a bit. Suppose you have invented a scidget. You need a $40 part to make your scidget but your wonderful invention won't sell for more than $2. Following your logic, the part manufacturer should be happy to sell you that $40 part for 50 cents. Sure, my example involves time, materials, tools and a whole host of other costs that writing does not but the premise is exactly the same - just because you don't have a way to recoup your expenses doesn't mean your providers should have to take the hit.

    In the case of this $1 per piece content, I have little doubt that the investment will return nice dividends for the buyer long-term. Otherwise, why would people like webdevloper be hiring 10 people at a time? With the 300 plus articles a month, presumably posted across several interconnected websites, times ten writers, it seems unimaginable that those articles won't pay dividends which far exceed the puny one-time investment of 100 pennies.

    There are a number of forums and groups where writers share leads and attract better rates. The priciest writers from what I can see are the copywriters who can earn upwards of $20,000 or more from a single sales letter. Those writers are required to do split testing and are often paid based on whether or not their work actually makes more new sales than the control or original materials. Which means they can end up writing for free or be rewarded with a big fat juicy commission check for several hundred thousand depending upon the product being sold. These writers wouldn't dirty their fingers writing lowly filler content at any price. Among this group are the elite writers who can make more in conference appearance fees each year than the typical writer earns in five years. New and younger writers can learn a great deal from visiting the forums frequented by this group but you will find very little talk about content writing.

    There have been several smaller writing forums where content writers and non-elite level copywriters gather but most I've seen were built upon a single cult-like leader, their "friends" and then the sycophants. They were attracting a few job orders but I just couldn't take the atmosphere of most of those places.

    As far as I know, there isn't a marketplace and community like what you are suggesting. It would only work long-term if there was a governing board who determines which writers are talented and honest enough to participate and which writers should be told to get lost. The board would have to police the sales threads and be on the lookout for backroom deals that undercut the system. I suppose it could work if the right people were involved but whoever ran the place would be essentially signing up for a full-time policeman's job and need a thick skin. It might work but it would still be a hard slog and probably require a sizable investment of both time and money.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
    YMC, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  5. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,364
    Likes Received:
    23
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #85
    Hi YMC, your post is 805 words. At the going rate of $1 per 100 words you just made $8 congratz !! (or $1.2 if you were being paid the slave wages). But I am sure your writing skills warrant lot more than that :)

    Any which way, your post in totality is worth 10XUSD when compared to the $1 "WELL RESEARCHED ARTICLES".... or would you rather not be compared ...eeeks .

    Jokes apart, you make some very valid points. I disagree with Kraven and you about the policing thing. What I do think should be done is create a subforum(I think DYADVISOR suggested something to that effect few weeks ago) and EDUCATE writers. Educate them about how to approach clients, about how to target keywords, how to improve their language skills, how to create a good portfolio, about how they can earn more than the measly wages by creating their own blogs. Let there be a forum based on the sole premise of learning.

    Easier said than done? eh?
     
    WebBuddy, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  6. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    31
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    160
    #86

    Plus, those that really need to use the English-improving skills probably are the ones who will use it the least, since they are the ones getting the least jobs, thanks to their low skills in English. A tread-mill that never ends...
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 14, 2010 IP
  7. Perry Rose

    Perry Rose Peon

    Messages:
    3,801
    Likes Received:
    94
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #87
    Such, "writers," who write for such a low rate are but a slight irritation.

    That includes the ones writing for $5 an article (working below minimum wage, for $5 an hour, or so).

    "Slave wages"??? I didn't know slaves got paid.

    Huh, who knew.


    Very good points, and dead on, Webdevloper1.
     
    Perry Rose, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  8. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    404
    Best Answers:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #88
    Unfortunately, that's what we're supposed to have here. Even when there was a certain opinionated moderator managing this area, there was still very little of value to be found. I will give credit where it's due by admitting she was somewhat effective in educating folks to charge what they were worth and stop accepting sweat shop rates.
     
    YMC, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  9. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #89
    You never heard of the term "wage slave"? Damn where have you been hiding?
     
    Kraven2, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  10. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,364
    Likes Received:
    23
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #90
    No prizes for guessing whom you are talking of . Btw, where has she vanished ? Who is the moderator now?
    Yes, she did give long and detailed answers even to noobs trying to educate them.
     
    WebBuddy, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  11. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    404
    Best Answers:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #91
    It would appear she quit and took a number of folks with her. Find her profile and check out the last thread she participated in. Reading that does make me question whether this is a place worth participating in.
     
    YMC, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  12. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #92
    Must have been before I frequented here, because I have no idea whom you are talking about.
     
    Kraven2, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  13. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,364
    Likes Received:
    23
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    100
    #93
    Just saw that... sad that people don't forget to hate even on forum boards. Anyways , that seems like no reason to leave the place. Also, she is still listed as Mod. Any which way she's not been to the forum since Mar 22. Unlikely that she'll turn up now. Will try to contact her though.. I liked seeing her cute face all around the forum and her posts were a pleasure to read.
     
    WebBuddy, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  14. DreamingBig

    DreamingBig Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    18
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #94
    YMC - Totally off topic, I just had to say that I love your craft website! It's beautiful! One day I want a cat site like that! ;)
     
    DreamingBig, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  15. MarTh-

    MarTh- Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,069
    Likes Received:
    12
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #95
    Problem is how is a webmaster to profit from a situation where he is buying 400-500 word articles at $20-30 each, sure he might get an affiliate sale a couple times but it is very rare unless webmaster has huge plans for the site. Even long term consideration and best quality SEO content it is unlikely.
     
    MarTh-, Jun 14, 2010 IP
  16. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #96
    A good webmaster won't just buy a few articles, but first talks to the SEO service provider. I can show him or her how to profit from just one article, no problem. But that is the core of the problem. Most webmasters don't have the slightest idea what they are doing.
     
    Kraven2, Jun 14, 2010 IP
    MarTh- likes this.
  17. MarTh-

    MarTh- Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,069
    Likes Received:
    12
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    175
    #97
    But consider this..there is a limit to how far article additions to websites can get the webmaster no matter how skilled he is. Consider how much traffic the webmaster needs with ads/affiliate networks to turn this article around for long term profit. If the buyer chooses a $0.02-$0.05 per word price range it's much more likely this will not be profitable choice.

    Some sites on the other hand may involve off-line sales and also want the articles to display informative professionalism thus allowing a significantly higher rate, but then again these individuals may not look to a webmaster forum for their first choice and will do something newbie like google for professional article writer results instead.

    Consider forum development services here and the crash it has taken since 2-3 years ago mainly due to changes in the Google search engine to put less emphasis on spam dofollow backlinks. Google search is always changing and market will follow google's trends should they choose to punish quality articles in their search (highly unlikely) we need accept that search engine updates can determine the market for article write and rewrites
     
    MarTh-, Jun 15, 2010 IP
  18. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    65
    #98
    First off all, not every webmaster relies on affiliate programs alone, and those that do have set up several income streams from their web site(s). Second, there are several ways to make use of a well written article, this shows my point, that most webmasters do not have the slightest idea what they are doing in this regard(Which is fine, that' s what I am here for.).
    Very true, and that is why I am in the process of redesigning my web site, so those less Internet savvy businesses will find me as well.
    No not really, in fact what you describe is my end of the business. It is my job to stay on top of this type of developments, so I can work with them, and know how to use the SEO tools at my disposal best.

    After all that' s why I make the big bucks :D
     
    Kraven2, Jun 15, 2010 IP
  19. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    31
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    160
    #99
    It depends on what niche the webmaster has chosen. If he chooses adsense as the moneymaker and the keywords are high enough in value in the chosen niche, that one article could be worth "gold". I have seen certain keywords in the cancer niche to bring thirty dollars for one click. With one click, the article has already paid for itself.
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 15, 2010 IP
  20. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    404
    Best Answers:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #100
    Having a high paying keyword isn't the entire answer. Doesn't matter if your entire site is covered with $30 clicks if no one ever visits it. This mad race for content does sometimes reward the one who has the most words but in the long run it's the ones with readable, compelling and linkable words that will ultimately win the Google game.
     
    YMC, Jun 15, 2010 IP