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The return of Slavery

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. #1
    Folks,

    Here' s a topic I just had write of my chest, as it has been annoying the hell out of me, all week.

    Most of you who know me, or have read some of my previous posts, know that I am not the most expensive writer in the world, I definitely do not go for the jackpot on every deal, as I have two rates for my writing: one fixed for the standard run of the mill SEO stuff, where the client gives me the keywords and I write the article, and one that is negotiated on a case by case basis, where I do the SEO research, and write up a kick ass article, or set of articles.

    It is the standard SEO and copywriting stuff I am writing about today.

    I really do believe it is about time DP started to make it mandatory to demand a minimum price per word or 100 words, in order to stop greedy content buyers(Of course not every content buyer is a greedy one, I know plenty of good ones out here) from exploiting writers, just because those writers have not made a name for themselves yet.

    I am not talking about the $ 0.01 per word jobs, I am not even talking about the $ 0.50 per 100 words jobs, but lately I have come across offers at the content creation forum, at rates like $ 0.15 per 100 words, which cannot even be classified as rates anymore. Those are slave wages, plain and simple.

    One that topped the lot was a smart ass wanting a full time writer for $ 300 a month!!! Full time, as in 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. Who can pay his or her monthly bills at a "salary" like that?
    SEMrush
    Thank god, I am in a position to just not go for jobs like that, or any other for that matter, but I do remember where I came from, and how I got started, and know how hard it can be to get yourself established, to a point that you can make decent income from your writing.

    This makes it easy for new writers(Yes there are a lot of crap writers out here, but also a lot of talented ones, that are just starting out), to fall into the pitfalls, and get trapped writing at wages, that cannot even be classified as beer money.

    I think therefore DP should step in, and set a minimum rate for those wanting to post a (writing) job offer in the content creation forum. Like $ 0.01 per word, or even a little below that, to keep the offers competitive. But what definitely has to be stopped is the exploitation of writers at rates like $ 0.40 per 100 words or even less.

    Slavery was abolished, lets not let it back in, through the back door.

    Thank you for letting me rant :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP
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    SEMrush
  2. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #2
    YES, how true!

    However a little more needs to be said. Through a very reputable source, that will set up all the arrangements here is what happens. I can hire a qualified writer, full time, that will produce 15 above average quality articles a day. That would mean 450 a month, based on a 5 day, 40 hour week. My "tax free" cost would be $300.00 a month. So for $300, I receive 450 ready to go, reliable articles. The person that would be hired would be from the Philippines, where charge are less less than many in India or Pakistan for example. I could submit them, and then even do as below.

    Now point 2. I have 50,000 public label articles, so I could spend five minutes combining 2 into I, pumping up keyword,s, now I spin it 30 times times for more articles. All pass Copyscape.. On each spun copy, I now change the headliine. 30 "new" articles in 30 minutes, 60 on two topics in an hour. I do this for 8 hours, or pay a slave laborer to do it for me. I now have 240 copies or 1,200 in one week. (using slave labor it could be 10,000)
    Now I sell the articles for $3.00 each and put 1,200 people partially out of work. Like it or not, for those slaves in the labor market, freedom will soon arrive. You will now have freedom, but no work. The future is happening right now as I posting this.

    FOR THOSE THAT DO NOT KNOW, THIS IS NOT WHAT I DO. INSTEAD I HELP PEOPLE GET AHEAD THAT WANT TO. I AM STARTING TO PROVIDE SOME ASSISTANCE TO ONE STARTING TODAY THAT EMAILED ASKING HELP TO MOVE UP IN LIFE.

    Excellent post Kraven
    , thanks for sharing some very nice, sad but realistic perceptions with the other members.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
    dyadvisor, Jun 12, 2010 IP
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  3. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Good points all around.

    I remember a few years ago on another forum everyone was sharing their Adsense earnings. When one member mentioned they earned $200 a month, another member said not to worry and if they keep plugging away at it they would make more in no time. The fellow making $200 laughed and said where he lived that $200 was enough to pay all of his bills each month with some left over. Shoot, $200 a month doesn't even pay my health insurance premium.

    It's a shame folks living in cheaper places don't realize that just because they could afford to take a job for $300 a month that they shouldn't have to accept so little when they are dealing in a global marketplace. I understand the concept of putting in a low bid to get the work. I just don't understand why anyone would be willing to accept pennies on the dollar if they don't have to.

    I visited a logo graphics design contest site the other day. They did had a minimum of $250. So, apparently it is possible to maintain and police such a thing as minimum pricing. Personally, I would like to never see article prices in the single digits again and drop the whole word count pricing all together.
     
    YMC, Jun 12, 2010 IP
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  4. Webdevloper1

    Webdevloper1 Active Member

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    #4
    The real meaning of slavery
    according to Wikipedia.
    I am not agreed completely form OP.
    i am giving example of BPO industry.
    some from 1st world is giving money(lets say $1k) to outsource their work to 3rd world.
    Not what call center are doing is hiring people over there (lets say $500)
    that doesnt mean slavery.
    $500/month is really an attractive pay in 3rd world country. you can live with comfort for that wage.(have your meal In Good Hotel for little under $2-3, take a taxi for little under $1)
    So everything is much cheaper (especially Food & meal) then 1st world country.(dats why average salary is less)
    Ya if you are offering same wage to 1st world country like US then its slavery.
    So i dont think this is slavery But i will call it outsourcing.
     
    Webdevloper1, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  5. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Webdevloper, the point here is that everything in this world has value. The work product of a writer has value to the buyer. Outsourcing is a business model designed upon buying low and selling low, one that I've never truly understood. Just because someone in 3rd world country can afford to live on $5 a day doesn't mean their work product, in the global marketplace, should be worth some fraction of that.

    If the writer in a third world country is creating quality pieces that if were written by a 1st world writer would be worth significantly more, I don't understand why the third world writer doesn't get smarter and charge what their work is worth. The 3rd world writers are offering rates as if they were only selling to 3rd world buyers. Sure they can make a living undercutting 1st world writers, but why shouldn't the 3rd world folks aspire to earning what their work is truly worth. If $5 is enough to live on in your country, wouldn't it be nicer to have $10 or even $20?
     
    YMC, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  6. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #6
    I call it destroying the market for your own people.

    Comparing writing to a call center is also comparing apples to oranges.
     
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  7. Webdevloper1

    Webdevloper1 Active Member

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    #7
    dats why problem is arising. everybody here is for business..Outsourcing is also business & its multi billion dollar industry.

    dats the point will you ask for US salary if you are living in 3rd world? clear answer is no.
    if this happens what you have said then image the cost of every product will increase(high buying & higher selling)

    Now we should understand the meaning of word "WORTH"
    5k salary is worth for US? its relative question..some will say yes some will say no.
    But if you ask any Indian, $1k is worth?? every Indian will say that ya its worth.
    Ultimately we should look for "standard of living".
     
    Webdevloper1, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  8. Webdevloper1

    Webdevloper1 Active Member

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    #8
    i wouldnt say that its relative term. as per my above answer.
     
    Webdevloper1, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  9. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #9
    Webdevloper1 we can go back and forth about it, but in the end confused_freelancer said it best in your sales thread:

    I stand by my previous statements in this and the other thread.
     
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  10. Webdevloper1

    Webdevloper1 Active Member

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    #10
    see Kraven2,
    you are confusing & mixing 2 matters.
    I cant see confused_freelancer in the picture.
    we are discussing entire different thing.So stick with it.
    Dont Mix BST in this section.
     
    Webdevloper1, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  11. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #11
    What part of "I stand by my previous statements in this and the other thread. " don't you understand?
     
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  12. raketeer_mom

    raketeer_mom Well-Known Member

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    #12
    It is really hard to compete with those laborers who charges a hundred folds less. I can't stand writing articles at $1/1000 words.. Like what YMC has said.. I am trying to evaluate the quality of my articles and trying to have it priced like those who charges 10X my price.. ;)

    Sellers are not the only one concerned in here.. I have also seen a lot of offers from buyers who are looking for top quality articles, all passed copyscape, and fast turn around at a very insulting price... so sad but many of the buyers from 1st world countries are now paying low as well.. :(
     
    raketeer_mom, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  13. dyadvisor

    dyadvisor Peon

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    #13
    Webdeveloper I will give your my definition of slavery as not being demeaning, but how it applies to reality in article land.
    It has nothing to do with race, country, or living standards. Slavery is when you work for low pay so that someone else can take advantage of it. The wise learn and get freedom from this bondage. Others are content to groan and moan, and just scrape by. This is also very prevalent in all countries.
    The Almigthy, whatever you religious beliefs, helps those that help themselves. Are you a slave driver, and enjoy the satisfaction of using others.
    The ROI, return on investment for business owners is typically 5 times to 10 times. True business people however do it off services and products, not off other people.

    My mission is to give people motivation and incentives that their is a better world out there. There is no reason to be average. The entire world needs more leaders and less sheep ------------------------------------------------------------
     
    dyadvisor, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  14. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

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    #14

    You are wanting to "call in the cavalry" on the ones you think are encouraging slavery. That is the same as those in my country ( USA ) wanting the government to take care of them when a tornado or hurricane hits. The answer is not in more government, but in the average joe having enough character to stand up to the bad guys. Tornados are destructive, but it is easy to prepare for them.


    You "got it off your chest". You have the fire within you to fight this yourself. So... FIGHT ! Stand up against the "bad guys" and fight for your freedom. Use your freedom of choice to refuse working for less wages. In a free society, those who are true leaders are those who fight for less government, not more.


    Besides, when has government actually been efficient at solving problems ? You are the one to solve it, not DP, in my humble opinion. If DP has to work more for us, they will also want to charge us for it, and rightly so. It is not necessary if we can do it ourselves.
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 12, 2010 IP
  15. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #15
    Government? Who is talking about government intervention?

    I am merely stating that I think that DP, as in Digital Point, should do a little quality control, and set some standards for buyers, in order to keep the cheap skates looking to exploit new writers out the door.

    Right now DP is getting a reputation for being the bottom of the barrel when it comes to writing, which is a damn shame because there are a lot of good people on here, writers as well as content buyers.

    So it is in their best interest also, I would think. The Average Joe has to stand up for himself I agree, but that does not mean DP should make it easy on those seeking to exploit the average Joe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  16. raketeer_mom

    raketeer_mom Well-Known Member

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    #16
    I entirely agree with this one... maybe your call should be for those who know their worth but charges less... Because if we were to make charges on a standard that is suitable for first world country workers, those from third world countries especially those that have just started will surely have a hard time. DP surely will have nothing to do with it..

    Sample:

    1st world country Buyer: I need writer of a high quality will pay the standard price
    3rd world country seller: Hi Sir, I can do the job for you...
    1st world country seller: hello there, i can easily do it for you...

    Both sellers are charging the standard price

    if you were the seller whom among them should you choose?

     
    raketeer_mom, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  17. raketeer_mom

    raketeer_mom Well-Known Member

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    #17
    Ohh.. yeah maybe this is possible... however, if DP will have to do it... they will surely get a cut like Odesk.. and the image of being a free marketplace will be gone.. :)

     
    raketeer_mom, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  18. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #18
    Well DP is quick enough with rolling out rules in other areas(See the sticky at the top for example) Surely it won't be that much trouble to state minimum rate for content = *insert amount here*

    And this being fair to 3rd world writers? If they don' t have the English skills to compete they would fail now also, judging from the requirements of the average buyer.

    So the only thing that would happen was they would stand to get paid more.

    Cheap skates on the other hand would have no place to prey upon though, and that would be a good development.
     
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP
  19. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

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    #19

    Your example fits perfectly with those who look to government to fix the problems in their lives. When the tax-man comes, those people pay again for the service they get when they look to government to fix a problem they could have fixed themselves. Remember, DP can not use their time without rightfully looking for a recompense --- i.e. » "money". Where will that money come from ? You and I. It is not DP´s fault that slavery exists or that people try to perpetuate it. It is the fault of those trying to perpetuate it and the fault of the slaves letting them perpetuate it.


    I think DP is gracious to let us use their huge bandwidth here on this site. I know they pay a lot for hosting already. They have adsense and other sources of income here, but the bandwidth usage is huge !
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 12, 2010 IP
  20. Kraven2

    Kraven2 Active Member

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    #20
    I am not faulting anyone. I am just stating that it would be good for the reputation of DP as well if they did. As for taking up their time, making an addition to their rules takes about 5 seconds, what would that cost me? :D

    As for this comment
    If you look at the site stats, you will see that those are the areas that receive the most traffic. So that is where the money is made my friend, nothing gracious about it, just money. We are the content of this site, and don't you forget it :)
     
    Kraven2, Jun 12, 2010 IP