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The Real Fascists

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by jrbiz, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. #1
    It has been instructive the past few days to see what has been happening on the U.S. political scene and I want to get to that, but first a little history. Despite the term "fascist" having been applied to U.S. conservative politicians over the past few decades and, most recently, to Trump, its real roots came out of Italy's socialist party (much like Nazism's roots were out of the German socialist party.) But the lamestream press has been very effective at convincing the low information voters and other uninformed peoples that it is conservatism from which Fascism arose. Totally false and provably wrong, these days.

    Let's look at yesterday's events in Arizona. Peaceful people wishing to attend a Trump rally where Trump would simply be exercising his free speech rights were PHYSICALLY BLOCKED from attending by "protesters." Actually, it is common knowledge that these "protests" are orchestrated affairs run by paid thugs and employing mostly the young and clueless nearby. This is one of the key platforms of Fascism which is the denial of free speech by physical force and disruption. Fascism cannot withstand the rigors of free discourse so its only option it to shut it down completely.

    On the other hand, has anyone heard of any disruption or attempts to stop a Hillary or Bernie rally? Of course not, conservatives believe in free speech and would not do anything to prevent same. Yet, it is the conservatives that are Fascists according to the fantasies put out by the liberal media around the world and it is for the low information types who just read it and run with it.

    Of course, this is nothing new to the U.S. Conservative speakers have basically been shut out of giving speeches on college campuses due to their strong socialistic/fascist leanings. These places of education freedom, cannot tolerate even hearing other theories.

    When I first started following politics, the liberals controlled all media, e.g., TV, radio, and film and not just the "news" and they had significant power to do a lot of damage. These days, it has gotten a little better because of conservative media on the Internet, the radio, and on TV (in descending order of impact) but it will take a long time to undo the damage caused by such biased propaganda being spewed for decades.
    SEMrush
    But make no mistake: we are seeing on a daily basis who the real Fascists are.
     
    jrbiz, Mar 20, 2016 IP
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    SEMrush
  2. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Check out the report from this plain clothes deputy at the recent Trump rally in Arizona:

    Brandon Tatum, an officer in the Tucson Police Department, went to a Trump rally on Saturday as a civilian to see what was going on. In a subsequent video, he said he thought there was going to be “a full-fledged riot” at the event — but not because of Trump’s supporters.

    The protesters were the problem, Tatum said.

    “These people were acting so outrageous,” he said in the video, which went viral after it was uploaded to Facebook. “You were just thinking that somebody was going to lose their temper and there was going to be a full brawl.”

    ...

    Tatum said he went to the rally at the Tucson Arena dressed in civilian clothes — a black shirt and khakis — to hear what Trump had to say.

    The officer first met some peaceful protesters and stopped to “see their point of view.”

    But at the door, he said, protesters were “verbally violent” — shouting “black lives matter,” holding up their middle fingers and screaming “f— Donald Trump.”

    “I could not believe what I saw,” said Tatum, who is African American.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-the-most-hateful-evil-people-ive-ever-seen/

    Its the leftist playbook, 101. Shut down free speech, disrupt, cow, intimidate, bully.

    The funny thing is, Trump's right wing opposition calls him a liberal, but these leftist protesters seem more agitated by Trump than anyone the GOP has fielded in several decades. It tells me three things:

    1) They seriously believe he might be the next president
    2) They seriously believe he will bring change to the US Government
    3) They don't think the change he brings will be to the left.
     
    Obamanation, Mar 21, 2016 IP
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  3. jrbiz

    jrbiz Acclaimed Member

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    #3
    I think all of the above is accurate, but I also think that there is something a bit more primal going on here, as well. Because Trump speaks his mind and does not go along with the Orwellian Political Correctness that most politicians solemnly kow-tow to when they speak these days, he threatens a lot of the sheeple and their masters to the core. I think that they are really afraid that other politicians will begin to see that you can fight the press, the liberal thuggery, the P.C. fantasies, etc., and succeed and that, of course, would be the left's downfall. They simply cannot survive an open and honest discussion (including the past century of documented failures in their name) and they know it, deep down.
     
    jrbiz, Mar 21, 2016 IP
  4. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #4
    fascism
    ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m/
    noun
    1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
      synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy,absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; More
      • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices.
        "this is yet another example of health fascism in action"
     
    Bushranger, Mar 26, 2016 IP
  5. jrbiz

    jrbiz Acclaimed Member

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    #5
    LOL, hate to burst your bubble, but this is exactly the misinformation/fallacies that are spread by the liberal media and their co-conspirators in academia. Do just a little independent historical research and you will find that Fascism (Italy) grew up alongside Nazism (Germany) and both grew out of their roots in their respective countries' socialist (i.e., leftwing) parties. Fascism and Nazism are, in fact, leftwing socialist and totalitarian constructs. The acronym "NAZI" actually stood for "National Socialist German Worker’s Party" in the German language.

    Here is one link with some historical information if you are truly interested in educating yourself:

    http://remember.org/hist-root-what.html
     
    jrbiz, Mar 27, 2016 IP
  6. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Liberal media taken over the dictionary now?

    And if you think Nazis were left-wing you're absolutely wrong.
     
    Bushranger, Mar 27, 2016 IP
  7. jrbiz

    jrbiz Acclaimed Member

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    #7
    No, liberal academics have corrupted text books, dictionaries, etc. Liberal media just run with their lies. This is not breaking news as it has been going on for decades.

    So, how is it that their very name is a testament to their leftwing (i.e., socialist) beliefs? How is it that Mussolini was a socialist before he started the Fascist Party and its original members came from the socialist party there? Socialism is "leftwing," in case you are confused about this fact, as well.

    I understand that leftwing/socialist ideologues simply keeping repeating the same lies and falsehoods over and over and this approach works with the low information voters. But it does not work with anyone who actually knows the history of events.
     
    jrbiz, Mar 28, 2016 IP
  8. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #8
    [​IMG]
    This is where political compass puts Hitler. Extreme authoritarian leaning to the right.

    The term socialist was used to attract those low information voters you speak of, they were never socialists.

    "It's a matter of fashion: in the 1920s and 1930s, socialism was the wave of the future and had a massive effect upon the political discourse. Lots of people used the terminology of Marxism without necessarily signing up to it or even understanding it. And plenty of governments spoke of the need to raise living standards, help the poor or even manage the economy – but we wouldn't call them Marxist. America had its New Deal; Sweden its Social Democracy. The Japanese militarised their entire country, but did so to expand the domain of an emperor that they thought was a living god, which is hardly classic commie behaviour. In Britain, Stanley Baldwin's government spent millions on a house building programme and set up the state-owned BBC. But Stanley was no Stalin."
    LINK

    Hitler claimed he despised the extreme left and the extreme right. In fact he took out most of the lefties of his Party in the night of the long knives leaving mostly the authoritarians and right-wingers in control of the Party.
     
    Bushranger, Mar 28, 2016 IP
  9. jrbiz

    jrbiz Acclaimed Member

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    #9
    Okay, since you fully buy into the left's re-write of history about that period, let's look a little closer to modern times. Are these dictatorships rightwing or leftwing:

    Soviet Union
    China
    North Korea
    Cuba
    Venezuela


    Socialism is the preferred political construct of dictators precisely because it also espouses a command/control government in which a small group of people (i.e., the dictatorship) tell others how to live, where to live, how much money they can earn, spend, etc.

    Finally, your "compass" shows its true colors, so to speak, by listing Thatcher, a democratically elected leader of a free country, alongside two of the most despicable mass murderers of the 20th Century who ruled countries with true dictatorship. Only liberals would do that type of ridiculous comparison.
     
    jrbiz, Mar 28, 2016 IP
  10. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #10
    With respect, I'm not here to educate you on those other countries, simply trying to correct your ridiculous assertions. You claim fascism is a left-wing construction when in fact it's neither left nor right, it's authoritarian. I posted the dictionary meaning for you, which plainly says it's right-wing and you claim that's a 'liberal' conspiracy.

    You then laughingly claim Hitler was a leftie, erroneously claiming the word socialist proves it when it does not.

    I will make the point the that many, left and right-wing organisations commonly use innocuous sounding names to fool the public into thinking they're the opposite of what they are. Firstly many call themselves think-tanks but you have to turn off your brain to believe them.
     
    Bushranger, Mar 28, 2016 IP
  11. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Your own political compass implies that Hitler was no right winger, and calls an extreme lefty like Stalin "fascist" as well.

    I agree with your point that names largely don't matter. Just because someone claims to be a socialist(Hitler and Mussolini) doesn't mean they are one. In America, the "conservative" party has until recently been the classically liberal party (small government, individual liberty,libertarian), while the left which assumes the name "liberal" has really been the party of the more powerful central government required to enforce nation wide collectivism. Its easy to get confused.

    When responding to posts, if it is an American who created a post referring to individuals, translate "Liberal" to mean "leftist", "progressive", "collectivist", and often "fascist". Translate "Conservative" to mean "liberal", "libertarian", or "evangelical"

    If an American creates a post referring to a politician, generally translate "Democrat" to mean "collectivist", "Globalist", or "Fascist", and "Republican" to mean "Oligarch", "Globalist", or "Fascist".
     
    Obamanation, Mar 28, 2016 IP
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  12. jrbiz

    jrbiz Acclaimed Member

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    #12
    Great points, @Obamanation and I have to admit that this thread has gotten a bit far afield from my original intent. What I was trying to point out was that while the American liberals/progressives/socialists (you pick a name) are quick to label Trump (and just about any other Republican) as a "fascist" it is the liberals, themselves, who are acting like fascists in both the political and the academic arenas which are supposed to be the very places for open and free discussions. They are the ones openly stifling free speech because they cannot tolerate hearing a different point of view (mostly because they are scared of different opinions.) And, in my experience, this is no fluke as they have been doing this here in the U.S. for decades now.
     
    jrbiz, Mar 29, 2016 IP
  13. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #13
    The compass has 4 points. The dot being on the right side of the compass actually shows he leans to the right, but not the extreme right like Thatcher or Friedman. If he was in the political center it would be on the center line and if he leaned to the left it would be to the left of the center line. The same compass shows Stalin was extreme authoritarian and also extreme left.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    Bushranger, Mar 29, 2016 IP
  14. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #14
    For a bit of fun I thought I'd see what it says about Trump. Wow, even scarier than I thought. I'm politically in the Center so if I lived there would have to go Sanders. Not that I think he'll win. I think Clinton's got this one.
    [​IMG]
    Link: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
     
    Bushranger, Mar 29, 2016 IP
  15. jrbiz

    jrbiz Acclaimed Member

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    #15
    What is really on display here are the political leanings of the developers of this so-called "compass." Anyone who thinks that this is a neutral, scientific approach to political analysis is in for deep disappointment.
     
    jrbiz, Mar 29, 2016 IP
  16. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #16
    When determining where someone actually stands you need to take in three different leanings, political, social and economical. The political compass, as far as I know, only portrays their political leanings.
     
    Bushranger, Mar 29, 2016 IP
  17. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #17
    @Bushranger: Not sure what you were getting at with your post. Stalin was a leftist fascist. He went by the title communist. Hitler went by the title socialist, as did Mussolini, as does Sanders.

    Such Right Wing Authoritarians! Most voters doubt Trump is even a Christian, and most on the right doubt he leans right in the slightest, given his many times stated support for government health care etc. The fact is, whoever placed Trump and Cruz on that compass where they did, did so by attributing their views of his views to position him.

    God knows none of them proposed having the government take away your right to carry a firearm, or having the Government force you to buy a product from a private company/campaign contributor, or abriddging rights of free speech or freedom of religion, as EVERY CANDIDATE from the Democratic party has done. Obviously the person who created the "Election 2016" positions for those candidates was a huge fan of Bernie Sanders. What can we say, there are no unbiased sources of information. There never were.

    A more accurate representation of their positions would have Sanders five squares to the left and three toward authoritarian, Clinton, Rubio and Bush sharing a spot three squares to the left of the spot Bush currently occupies, Cruz two-three squares south of his current spot, and Trump about five squares to the left of his current spot.
     
    Obamanation, Mar 30, 2016 IP
  18. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #18
    That's exactly where he is on the compass, far left and top, and it explains in the link how they came to their conclusions on Trump.
     
    Bushranger, Apr 1, 2016 IP