The New Russia (Putin)

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Golo, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. #1
    At first what I found was it seemed like no one paid any attention to China, as if it was keeping a low profile. It probably was but now, you see China talked about all the time. And Russia, which has returned to basically what it was liked during the Soviet Union in many ways.

    If you haven't watch the documentary "The Putin System", I highly recommend it. I think what people are worried or complaining about you can see it even more extreme in Russia today. I would like to get some maybe russians to comment on this also. Putin has a really high approval rating, so he is doing something right.

    It just seems to me that Russia had it's own little war which I believe its unjustified but hardly even knows about it.

    So what you guys think? About the New Russia and Putin.
     
    Golo, Apr 21, 2008 IP
  2. killianbr

    killianbr Well-Known Member

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    #2
    I haven't watched that, but I probably will :)

    "It just seems to me that Russia had it's own little war which I believe its unjustified but hardly even knows about it."

    I'll have to disagree on that line, I mean, take a look at Russia's size, lots of cultures were mixed in one place, it's impossible not to have ethnic conflicts, it's not as bad as in Africa, but still, different cultures at the same place generate conflicts
     
    killianbr, Apr 21, 2008 IP
  3. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #3
    There are so many countries inside Russia that needs to be free one day. For example Tatarstan, Chechenistan
     
    ziya, Apr 21, 2008 IP
  4. Lexiseek

    Lexiseek Banned

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    #4
    It's fashionable these days to bash the United States. Most other countries are getting a free ride, despite doing their share of damage to the world.
     
    Lexiseek, Apr 21, 2008 IP
  5. Golo

    Golo Peon

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    #5
    Try to take a look how the conflict was started and how it was played. They basically bombed them killing lots of innocent civillians when in had a war, split them into two fractions then leave and supports one of them so they can fight their war for them. I mean if you want to keep a part of your country together, don't harrass it, treat it's people well not slaughter them.
     
    Golo, Apr 21, 2008 IP
  6. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #6
    US view is seldom neutral and fair in world affairs.

    It is always dictated by either national interests or special interests.

    The dreams of the west are to break up Russia to peaces so the big corporations can rob freely Russia's resources. During Elcin for example the greatest democrat (for the west of course) Russia's riches were robbed by just about every thief that includes western oil companies. Since that has pretty much stopped under Putin he is considered dictator by the west, but in contrast almost a hero for the Russians.


    Putin's ratings are about 78% - approval.
    Bush's ratings are about 78% - disapproval.

    So, twisted logic you are going to put to defend the world champion in democracy Bush?

    Who is the most hated president in the world.

    Zia has a pain, that some muslims have: jealousy. Why jealousy is so popular in the middle east?
    Russia is not meddling in other countries affairs, why you Zia show interest of breaking up Russia?


    In Russia all people are equal before the laws. Are all people equal in the muslim countries?
     
    ST12, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  7. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Chechens and Tatars are not russians. They are big, intelegent nations. I believe that they have right to have their own country. And it is only matter of time. It is not like breaking up russia.
     
    ziya, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  8. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #8
    Only a handful may be want, including some fanatical arabs like those who financed the talebans in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    And as usual you just proved again muslims can hardly integrate with others if the chechens and tatars want to separate like Pakistan and Bangladesh did with India.

    I spoke to some Russians about Chechnya and they told me they don't want them (the chechens) in Russia, but issues came up with the true chechen believers (like all the true Osama and his followers believers in Islam) that they have to start killing innocent to show power and started blowing up residential buildings, schools, hospitals, theaters.

    Chechnya is a really small province, where did you get that it was a big nation?
    Why do I have the feeling Zia, that you harbor sympathies for the scam bags the civilized world detests?
    Zia are you an arab or pakistani or a turk?
    May be it is about time that Russia stops helping in any way the Palestinians the Syrians, the Iranians, (if you don’t know, it was the former Soviet Union that brokered the peace between Israel and the Arab countries in the Arab - Israel war when Syria lost the Golan heights.)
    Now it becomes more and more obvious (from other muslims I know from the middle east) that they show one face to them, but in their hearts and minds they keep evil thoughts and desires for them.
     
    ST12, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  9. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Well.. I was not talking about separating by war. Kosova is now indepent country, free. And russia is going to call Abkhaziya free, independent . russia supporting Abkhaziya. So why not Chechenistan and Tataristan have not their right for their own country ?

    And I told nations, not province or country.

    I dont understand what evil are you talking about ? Let it be free Tatarstan, Chechenistan. Well maybe today it sounds like unreal, but it is something like wish ,hope.. that oneday we will see free Tatarstan and Chechenistan
     
    ziya, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  10. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #10
    Ha, ha, ha, haa.

    Free from what? Oppression like the non muslims have in muslim countries?

    Let me tell you one thing, only you and some fanatics and fanatical mullahs dream of Iranian or Saudi Arabian islamic life style.

    Never heard tatars wanting to separate from Russia, they together with the ordinary chechens are much better of being part of Russia. The freedom and democracy they enjoy in Russsia is much, much, much better than any Islamic rule.
    Only Islamic fanatics may be dreaming those dreams that you have.

    Are you ashamed of your nationality? You didn't seem to answer that question. LOL
    Ha, ha, ha, .....
     
    ST12, Apr 23, 2008 IP
  11. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Of course I am not ashamed my nationality. And it is not about my nationality. I am a Turk, if it will make you happy. As former USSR countries are free today, they will be indepent, and free oneday... ;) We will see who will laugh at the end so laugh as much as you want :cool:
     
    ziya, Apr 23, 2008 IP
  12. Plazimot

    Plazimot Peon

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    #12
    They are something like America without pretending to be Democratic
     
    Plazimot, Apr 23, 2008 IP
  13. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #13
    How did I know that?

    You the turks cry when the west is using double standards against you, but you perfectly OK them when the double standards benefit you.

    Can you answer a few questions?

    1. How did you achieve that big 99% muslim population of a country that used to occupy so many Christians?

    2. When are you going to give the basic human rights to the Kurds?

    3. When are you going to finally let them rule themselves? They are tired of being oppressed by the turks and treated as second class citizens.

    4. When are you going to accept the Armenian genocide that your country comited?

    5. Here is some info about Turkey's human rights ........

    "Turkey: Government Amendments Will Not Protect Free Speech
    Article 301 Should Be Abolished
    (Istanbul, April 17, 2008) – The government’s proposed revision to the infamous Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code, which has been used to investigate and prosecute hundreds of people for peacefully expressing themselves, will not remove the article’s restrictions on free speech, Human Rights Watch said today. ..............http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/04/17/turkey18591.htm "

    " ...... RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS

    Section 1 Respect for the Integrity of the Person, Including Freedom From:

    a. Arbitrary or Unlawful Deprivation of Life

    The government or its agents did not commit any politically motivated killings; however, security forces killed a number of persons during the year.

    On September 13, security forces shot and killed Ejder Demir, a Kurdish-origin Turkish citizen in the Asagi Kockiran village in southeastern Turkey. After an investigative visit to the town, a delegation consisting of members of the nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) Human Rights Association (HRA) and Mazlum-Der reported that eyewitnesses stated that soldiers shot Demir in the back without any warning. The soldiers had called for Demir to come out of his house; Demir exited and turned around, at which point the soldiers shot him. The delegation reported that neither the local prosecutor nor the Jandarma commander would meet with them. The Saray subprovincial subgovernor Ali Yilmaz told the delegation Demir was trying to flee when shot, and that an investigation was ongoing. The delegation called on the government and parliamentary human rights committee to take up the case. At year's end the government had not initiated an investigation or legal action.

    The NGO Human Rights Foundation (HRF) reported that, in contrast to past years, security forces caused no fatalities in connection with raids on houses or control of demonstrations.


    There continued to be reports of security forces fatally shooting civilians who refused to obey a warning to stop. According to the HRF, police and Jandarma killed the following persons in such circumstances: an unidentified Syrian citizen in Islahiye, Gaziantep; Emrah Dervizoglu (17) in Istanbul; Osman Akdemir (42) in Uzumlu, Erzincan; Mikhail Cetin in Dortyol, Hatay; Bulent Karatas (33) in Hozat; and Baran Tursun (20) in Istanbul. Human rights organizations stated that the government's failure to clearly delineate appropriate situations to use lethal force, in the revised Antiterror Law or other laws, contributed to cases of disproportionate use of force.

    On September 28, security forces in the city of Hozat in Tunceli Province shot and killed 33-year-old Bulent Karatas and injured 31-year-old Riza Cicek, when the men did not obey a "stop" warning. The military's Web site described the incident as security forces rendering two terrorists ineffective. Hozat Mayor Cevdet Konak said the men were grazing livestock in fields when they were shot. On September 29-30, demonstrators gathered in Tunceli and Istanbul to protest the killings. HRA Tunceli representative Baris Yildirm said the killings epitomized an increase in the violation of civilians' rights occurring in the region.


    On October 17, police shot and subsequently paralyzed 17-year old Ferhat Gercek in Yenibosna in Istanbul. Witnesses reported that police tried to arrest Gercek and other vendors who were selling the socialist magazine Yuruyus. When the vendors resisted, a short fight ensued and a police officer shot Gercek in the back. Gercek's family and friends complained that Gercek was not questioned in an effort to find the responsible officer. No officers were charged in connection with the case.

    .................................... http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2007/100589.htm "

    I won't be surprised if you label me "anti-turk" ..... there is nothing else you could do.

    Zia focus on your country. You have ton's of problems to solve. Forget about the Islamica separatism, it won't benefit the muslims and you.

    I know a number of muslims in Los Angeles, and all of them thank God that they have the opportunity to live in US. So are the muslims in Europe. Many of the countries that split from Russia regret it now, but Russia does not want them back.
    Thanks to Russia many of the countries that split from her now have schools, hospitals, roads, electricity. Without Russia, they would be still living like Afghanies in the dark ages.
     
    ST12, Apr 25, 2008 IP
  14. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #14
    it is not secret that you (russia) supporting armenia. armenia is your tool. armenia and kurds(terrorists) using russian weapons generally. there was not any genocide against armenia. it is fake. Turkey opened its archives to be researched. genocide facts can not be ? accepted by parlaments, congress. historians, researches have to research it. Turkey doesnt have any thing to hide, and archives are open as I said. But your lovely, so innocent, poor armenians had killed many Turks before

    1910 MuÅŸ (10 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    21 February 1914 Kars-Ardahan (30 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1915 Van (44 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1915 Van (150 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1915 Bitlis (16 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1915 MuÅŸ (80 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1915 Bitlis-Hizan (113 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1915 Van (5 thousand 200 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    February 1915 Haskay (200 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    February 1915 Dutak (3 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    April 1915 Bitlis (29 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    April 1915 Muradiye (10 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    April 1915 Van (120 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    May 1915 Van (20 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    July 1915 Muş-Akçan (19 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    August 1915 Müküs (126 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 May 1915 Bitlis (40 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 May 1915 Bitlis (123 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    15 January 1916 Terme (9 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1 April 1916 Van-ReÅŸadiye (15 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    May 1916 MuÅŸ (500 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    8 May 1916 Van-Tatvan(thousand 600 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    8 May 1916 Bitlis (10 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    8 May 1916 Pasinler (2 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    8 May 1916 Tercan (563 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    11 May 1916 Van (44 thousand 233 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    11 May 1916 Malazgirt (20 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    11 May 1916 Bitlis (12 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Van (thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Köprüköy-Van (200 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Van (15 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Van (8 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Van (8 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Van (80 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1916 Van (15 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    23 May 1916 Of (5 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    23 May 1916 Trabzon (2 thousand 86 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    23 May 1916 Van (3 yüz civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    25 May 1916 Bayezid (14 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    June 1916 Van-AbbasaÄŸa (14 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    June 1916 Edremid-Vastan (15 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    6 June 1916 Åžatak-Serir (45 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    6 June 1916 Åžatak (thousand 150 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    7 June 1916 Müküs-Serhan (121 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    14 August 1916 Bitlis (311 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1919 Sarıkamış (9 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1919 Tiksin-AÄŸadeve (5 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1919 Nahçivan (4 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    6 January 1919 ZaruÅŸat (86 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    21 January 1919 Kilis (2 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 January 1919 Antep (1 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    25 January 1919 Kars (9 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    26 February 1919 Adana-Pozantı (4 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    18 May 1919 Osmaniye (1 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    13 June 1919 Pasinler (3 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    3 June 1919 Iğdır (8 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    July 1919 Sarıkamış (803 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    July 1919 Kurudere (8 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    July 1919 Sarıkamış (695 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    4 July 1919 Akçakale (180 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    5 July 1919 Kağızman (4 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    7 July 1919 Kars-Göle (9 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    8 July 1919 Mescitli (4 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    8 July 1919 Gülyantepe (10 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 July 1919 Kağızman (6 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 July 1919 Kurudere (8 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    11 July 1919 Mescitli (20 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    19 July 1919 Bulaklı (2 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    19 July 1919 Pasinler (2 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    24 July 1919 Kars-Kağızman (9 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    August 1919 Muhtelif köyler (2 thousand 502 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    15 August 1919 Erzurum (153 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    15 August 1919 Erzurum (426 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    September 1919 Allahüekber (3 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 September 1919 Ünye (12 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    14 September 1919 Sarıkamış (2 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    November 1919 Adana (4 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    11 November 1919 MaraÅŸ (2 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    6 November 1919 Ulukışla (7 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    7 December 1919 Adana (4 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1920 Göle (600 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1920 Kars (3 thousand 945 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1920 Haramivartan (138 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1920 Nahçivan (64 thousand 408 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1920 Nahçivan (5 thousand 307 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    February 1920 Kars civarı (561 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1 February 1920 ZaruÅŸat (2 thousand 150 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    2 February 1920 Åžuregel (thousand 150 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    10 February 1920 Çıldır (100 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    28 February 1920 Pozantı (40 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 March 1920 ZaruÅŸat (400 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    9 March 1920 ZaruÅŸat (120 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    16 March 1920 Kağızman (720 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 March 1920 Åžuregel-ZaruÅŸat (2 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    6 April 1920 Gümrü (500 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    28 April 1920 Kars (2 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    5 May 1920 Kars (thousand 774 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    22 May 1920 Kars (10 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    2 July 1920 Kars-Erzurum (408 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    2 July 1920 Zengebasar (thousand 500 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    27 July 1920 Erzurum (69 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    May 1920 Kars-Erzurum (27 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    August 1920 Oltu (650 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    August 1920 Kars-Erzurum (18 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    15 October 1920 Bayburt (thousand 387 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    20 October 1920 Göle (100 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    17 October 1920 Pasinler (9 thousand 287 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    18 October 1920 Tortum (3 thousand 700 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    19 October 1920 Erzurum (8 thousand 439 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    26 October 1920 Kars civarı (10 thousand 693)
    October 1920 AÅŸkale (889 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1 December 1920 Kosor (69 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    3 December 1920 Göle (508 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    4 December 1920 Kosor (122 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    4 December 1920 Kars-Zeytun (28 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    4 December 1920 Sarıkamış (thousand 975 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    6 December 1920 Göle (194 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    7 December 1920 Kars-Digor (14 thousand 620 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    14 December 1920 Sarıkamış (5 thousand 337 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    29 November 1920 ZaruÅŸat (thousand 26 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    December 1920 Erivan (192 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1921 Nahçivan (12 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1921 Bayburt (580 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1921 Arpaçay (148 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1921 Karakilise (6 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1921 Karakilise ( 6 thousand civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    February 1921 Zenibasar (18 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    21 November 1921 Pasinler (53 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    21 November 1921 Erzurum (thousand 215 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1918 Hınıs (870 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    1918 Tercan (580 civilian turks killed by armenian militia)
    March 1922 MaraÅŸ (4 civilian turks killed by armenian militia).
     
    ziya, Apr 25, 2008 IP
  15. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #15

    Almost 380,000 Civilian Turks killed by Armenian militia from 1910 till 1922!!! Are you sure you are speaking the truth? I doubt them very, very much!

    I regret the ones that died (if any), BUT do you believe this is a true number? More than 380,000 turkish civilians killed within 12 years?
    One may think that this is a genocide against the turks. Only turks, islamic fanatics and dishonest mulsims can believe these numbers are true.

    Also, I am not a Russian or an Armenian, but looking at your honesty and history of oppressing others ,I certanly would support the ones that are oppressed, by you or anyone else.
    The world should say no to all oppressors and the wanna be oppressors.

    IMO the 380,000 civilian turks killed by armenian militia is a fabricated turkish propaganda designed to make Turks victoms of the Armenians and give them the excuse for the Armenian genocide.

    If any Armenians post here, they may say their side of the story as well.
     
    ST12, Apr 25, 2008 IP
  16. N_F_S

    N_F_S Active Member

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    #16
    hahaha, that scares me, smth tells me that you are right :)

    Guys, I'm am from south Russia, first of all there is no "Chechenistan", its called Chechnya.

    Also, its not that small as you might think, its small in russian standards(huge Russia territory), but not that small in european.

    There were around 1,5 million chechens before that bloody war started(now around 1 million), is that called small? I dont think so.

    I am myself not a russian, Im mixed and Chechnya is 2 hours drive from me. Ill try to explain whats going on.

    Chechnya wanted to be independent, thats why that war started. I think any nation if it lives on its own territory for ages, can be independent. Russia doesnt want that, because once someone becomes independent it will be the american target to negotiate about military integration, about sponsorship, etc. , a simple example - Georgia.

    So, Russia will not release any of its territory as it is now. The conflict between Georgia and Russia on Abhaziya and South Ossetiya is firing up now, NATO said that Russia need to withdraw their troops from this territory. I doubt, they that will be withdrawed.

    80% of population in Abhaziya and South Ossetiya are russian passport holders, so Russia will not leave here and I think thats the right decision. They do not want to integrated with Georgia, so why should they?

    On the other side Georgia is backed by US and NATO. Lets see whats gonna happen.
     
    N_F_S, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  17. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #17
    LOL. Now Putin is the one doing the robbing.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/30/business/ruble.php
     
    LogicFlux, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  18. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #18
    ST12, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  19. korr

    korr Peon

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    #19
    You don't think the governments use pressure to force private companies into deals? They do this in America all the time to help out their political friends! Heck, this is how government works!

    I think Russia is building up quietly with a lot of manufacturing and exports to build up a reserve base of wealth. But I don't know if they can be a big player in international affairs again unless they find an ally they can trust & work with.
     
    korr, Apr 29, 2008 IP
  20. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #20
    Actually I don't speak ant but I do speak a bit of cricket.:D
     
    LogicFlux, Apr 29, 2008 IP