The movie of Geert Wilders, what to expect of it and what do you fear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtPnu0XX1GA
is this fake?

 

Okay, Muhammed alone represents Islam.

...

Nope, not better.

 

Interesting Fact

Mishnah Sanhedrin was merely writing commentary before Muhammad came around. And yet the Koran quotes him exactly with a couple exceptions thrown in.

Muhammad should have left the quote in tact. But, then that wouldn't have resulted in a war hungry religion that gave Mr Pbuhdy so much power.

So Muslims have the right to kill someone for causing "corruption in the land" and who does the Koran say causes "corruption (or mischief) in the land?"

Unbelievers.

It doesn't take much to see that the Koran gives all Muslims the right to murder anyone who doesn't believe in Islam.

 

maybe this one is fake or something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0C5S4N5kvM

 

Great, thanks for the info.

 

Funny video .... made me laugh..

The priest should be suspended though ....

 

They're claiming that the priest was racist and yet they don't bother to explain what the woman was doing that bothered the priest.

Considering he was calling her an idiot she was probably objecting to the baptism.

But I can see how that's very similar to suicide bombing Muslims.

 

the idea is there are some jerks in every religion

 

Like I said, I can see how jerks that slap other jerks around are the same as Muslims that go around blowing up Cafes, Weddings, market places, etc filled with people that were minding their own business.

 

We are trying to tell several days on debates on threads that, this movie or this kind of action is not related to freedom of speech. And you coming up again asking about freedom of speech..

Freedom is very rich, with many understandings in it word. Freedom of speech is includes many factors , many meanings in it.

It is free to use drugs in Dutch as I know , but it is not free to use other countries even in Europe. It is free to marry same sex ppls, like gays , but it is not allowed on other countries.

Freedom is not that easy word to understand and tell. If I will attack on one of users here, and call someone , or some group of users with bad words, will it be appriciated as freedom of speech( I am far away from that action) ?
Freedom of speech is not that easy thing to manipulate, it is not the tool to make provocation. You can not destroy the other principle by caring only about freedom of speech, but what about freedom of faiths ?

Which one of is more important in Europe or even in west freedom of speech or freedom of faiths ? Can freedom of speech limit freedom of faiths ?

Added below :
---
There is a pedophile party in Dutch one of founders is Ad van den Berg, whose main goal is to lower the age of sexual consent from 16 to 12. Can you call it freedom of sex ?

sources :

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dutch_pedophiles_set_to_go_political

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/17/news/dutch.php

No comments

 

if that was true then Muslims would have killed all non-Muslims in all the areas they conquered, which included Spain, India, Southern part of Russia, parts of China, Persia,

and if that was true then you won't find non-Muslims these days in
Jordan: 7% of the population is Christian
Egypt: more than 20% of the population is Coptic, Jews, and others
Iraq: 5% of the population are Jews, Christian, and other religions
Oman: 2.5% Christian
Indonesia: 5.7% Protestant, 3% are Catholic, 1.8% Hindu, 3.4% other or unspecified

and so on you can search online for more info..

Quran says:

[6:151] "...You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

[17:33] You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.

[2:256] There is no compulsion in religion

examples are many in Islamic history, here are some:

Caliph Abu Bakr as-Siddiq letter to the non-Muslims of Najran:

"In the Name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This is the written statement of God’s slave Abu Bakr, the successor of Muhammad, the Prophet and Messenger of God. He affirms for you the rights of a protected neighbor, in yourselves, your lands, your religious community, your wealth, retainers, and servants, those of you who are present or abroad, your bishops and monks, and monasteries, and all that you own, be it great or small. You shall not be deprived of any of it, and shall have full control over it…"

Another example is the statement of a famous classical scholar of Islam, Imam Awza’i in his letter to the Abbasid governor Salih b. ‘Ali b. Abdullah about the People of the Covenant, “They are not slaves, so beware of changing their status after they have lived in freedom. They are free People of the Covenant.”

I will stop here and will continue this later as its too late here now ( 2:06 am ) feel free to ask about anything

 

As we already saw it is the course of justice to kill those who cause corruption in the land. Say by not being Muslim.

Terrorists aren't trying to convert people. So that's irrelavent. Terrorists want you to submit to Islamic law. Whether or not you're a Muslim is irrelevant.

There are Christians in China as well but they would be executed if they didn't register with the state and the government found them.

Nobody is making anyone a slave. Non-Muslims just have to keep their mouth shut and pay their dhimmi tax to keep their head. So again, completely irrelavent to what is happening in Islamic countries without protest from the "large majority" of Muslims that are not part of the "small minority" that murder.

I notice you didn't include Saudi Arabia.

The numbers are so low because, as in China, you can be another religion as long as you're a good little second class citizen and keep your mouth shut.

Again, it has nothing to do with compulsion. It has to do with suppression. You can be non-Muslim in a Muslim country as long as you don't say anything that Muslims don't like. Nobody is forcing you to be Muslim. They're forcing you to submit to their laws.

Which includes, not speaking against Islam.

Otherwise you get a Koran-sanctioned death.

In Saudi Arabia you can't even bring a Bible in. I'm not sure what the punishment is for deliberatly bringing a Bible into the country but I'm not about to find out.

So you're just affirming what the film is saying.

It's not like these countries came from a "small minority." Millions, if not billions, of Muslims live in countries where apostasy carries a death sentence. If Muslims had a problem with it (like they should) then that law would be taken off the books. Since we're told that these countries don't obey all of Sharia law anyway.

So why is that law so consistantly upheld without protest?

 

Nobody is saying you can't be Muslim. People are wondering why anyone would want to be Muslim but they're not forbidding you.

If you are not allowed to criticize Islam then you can't criticize other religions.

These are the same Muslims that start threads criticizing the Bible.

Everytime a hyprocritical Muslim criticizes a non-Muslim faith and whines when someone criticizes their religion Muhammad drinks pigs blood.

Christians don't care if you criticize the Bible because it stands up to the scrutiny.

Islam doesn't. That's why Islamic countries murder people for pointing that out. Especially the ones that realize it and leave the religion.

I have a right to say that Muhammad is the son of a donkey. If it's not true then you shouldn't care. If it is true then you should rethink your religion.

 

Wilders call to ban Koran. Banning Koran means banning Islam, so it mean Islam will not be allowed by his words.. His freedom of speech will limit others freedom of faiths, in this case will limit Muslims faith

 

It shouldn't be banned but it should be treated the same as Mein Kampf. A literary study on hate. Not a religious text.

Calling for the ban of the Koran is a completely seperate issue than highlighting the fact that the Koran calls for the murder of unbelievers by believers.

And in fact hate speech is not protected speech. So a book like the Koran that tells believers that it's okay to kill people for causing "confusion in the land" which is defined as being an "unbeliever" by the Koran it is hate speech. And therefore not subject to protection.

If Muslims want to go ahead and get rid the parts of the Koran that tell believers to kill unbelievers then it would no longer be considered hate speech and would be subject to protection.

No where in the Bible does it tell believers to go kill unbelievers. It tells stories of God telling his government leaders to wage a war on specific people. It lays out the laws that the Jews had to follow and the punishments they could face FROM THE GOVERNMENT if they broke those laws. No where in the Bible does it say that Gentiles could be punished for breaking Jewish law.

The Koran lays out hatred for all non-Muslims and allows any Muslim to be judge jury and executioner when dealing with non-Muslims. The Koran tells Muslims to force non-Muslims to obey their laws or punish them.

So yeah, I can see his point. It is hate speech. And like you said, you should ban hate speech.

So you agree with Wilders.

Why are we arguing again?

 

I absolutely disagree with Wilders.. And it is useless to argue with you. Read the Imad's post at least, and do some research

 

Well, well, well... The true face of peaceful and tolerant Islam is showing, once again:

 

You agree that hate speech should be outlawed.

The Koran is full of hate speech towards unbelievers.

Therefore you agree that the Koran should be outlawed.

When I'm right I'm right.

Millions of people saw the video. And now they know it's true.

You can find the video on The Pirate Bay and other filesharing places so it doesn't matter. It'll pop up again and again and again.

I remember Slashdot before the cartoon controvesy. That was a huge awakening for a lot of people.

 

Thank you LiveLeak

 

Goodbye freedom of speech.

Welcome Muslim majority in Europe.


Ziya, actually I'm glad this has happened. First of all it will pop up forever, secondly THIS might wake up the masses (not the movie itself) and last but not least, it just proves my point about the aggressive nature of these anima... I mean "people", which has been denied by some on DP. Must be in the genes...