The Most Scientific Man in the World Believes in God

We all know what you meant and we all know what your intention was with this thread. To spread lies with the intention of forming an argument from authority.

Do you admit that the god Einstein was talking about was not conscious and was not an actual entity?

 

Have we met somewhere before?

Yes !

Your turn...

If you don't believe in the traditional personal God which has conscious and free will then you don't believe in God at all?

 

I appreciate your drive to debunk those trying to inflict religion through those who've scientifically contributed to our world (they want the scientists to believe in a God so there will be no more means to deny the bogus idea of a God).

 

If someone says "god" when referring to an unconscious force or the laws that govern the universe then they certainly aren't talking about god as most people would understand the word. They aren't talking about the thing that comes to mind when people hear the word "god".

Your thread would have been better titled "Einstein's use of the word god misunderstood for 60 years".

 

Clever, but we aren't politicians here, is that a Yes or a No?

I gave you an honest answer and didn't beat around the bush for the sake of the thread. You can do the same for me, right?

...If you don't believe in the traditional personal God which has conscious and free will then you don't believe in God at all?

 

So why did you forget to mention that the god Einstein was referring to was completely different to the god everyone associated with the word "god" when you started the thread?

 

I think that if you don't believe in the traditional personal God which has conscious and free will you should find another word for referring to the thing you believe in, or don't blame people if they misunderstand you

 

Yes, it's called impersonal God.

Everyone has a different concept of God, but what makes all the beliefs similar is that they are all a belief in a higher power. God = Higher power. Personal God = Higher power. Impersonal God = Higher Power. Do athiests believe in a higher power?

Can you answer my original question with just a Yes or a No or are you going to continue to dance?

If you don't believe in the traditional personal God which is an entity, has a conscious, and free will, then you don't believe in God at all? Just a Yes or a No would suffice.

 

No.
A god is an entity. A god creates with intent. A god is conscious.
If it does none of those things it's an arbitrary force no different to gravity.

any other contrived definitions of simple words you want to pull out of your ass?

 

I would definitely agree with the link you shared:

God, Supreme Being (the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions)

To some God is a person with a place in heaven who watches over the world, a conscious, entity, etc.. A belief which is probably the most common today.

To others God is an arbitrary force which has always been and always will be. For a good example, see Brahman from the Hindu religion.

Both believers in impersonal and personal God believe God is without limits or boundries whose power is infinite.

It sounds like you're still having trouble understanding the differences between impersonal and personal God. Please refer to my first reply to this thread.

Goosfraba...Goosfraba.

 

So are you entirely relying on a contrived definition now?
You are basically defining god as anything which enables you to continue claiming that Einstein believed in it.

 

What is contrived about the definition you've given me?

Wrong, Einstein didn't believe in a personal God, but an impersonal God. How is this so difficult to understand? I've tried to explain it but you're going to have to do your own research from here on out.

I can understand that it's much easier to abandon the concept of God and declare yourself athiest. For the majority of my life I was an athiest.

 

it specifically defines god as a being and it specifically defines god as being omniscient. You know omniscient means all knowing, right? How can an unconscious force "know" anything? How does that apply to how Einstein used the word?

Einstein was in no sense talking about a "being" or an entity that could "know" anything. he was talking about nothing more than the universe and the laws that govern it. The definition which you agreed with does in no way support your contrived idea that "god" could be unconscious and a non-entity. In fact, It defines god as being specifically an entity and specifically conscious.

No he didn't believe a god existed anymore than i believe lady luck exists when i thank her for letting me win at poker. He was using it in an analogy to describe the workings of the universe like i would use "lady luck" as an analogy to describe a series of events that benefited me.

 

Stox, you got me on the dictionary thing. But anyway, back on topic.

According to what you've said, a belief in an impersonal God is not belief in God at all.

Essentially you're saying that in order for someone to believe in God, their concept of God must fit yours, else they actually don't believe in God. But there lies a problem with this, when beliefs like deism directly conflict with what you're saying because of their belief in an impersonal God...yet they still believe God is the reason behind the creation of the universe.

Deism:
Belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

Hence, impersonal God.

Einstein himself says he isn't an atheist, he's even been critical of outspoken atheists of his time. If he's not an atheist, what other logical answer could point towards his beliefs? Of a belief in God, of course.

 

No, I'm saying in order for someone to believe in god they have to believe in something which reflects the definition of the word. Einsteins use of the word didn't reflect the definition of the word, Which means he was using it as a metaphor to describe the universe and the laws that govern it and not an actual conscious entity.

Essentially you are saying that in order for someone to believe in god they only have to have used the word "god" at some point in any context.

at best Einstein was agnostic.

 

Sure, maybe if you were sticking to the dictionary on WordNet. There are many different definitions of God depending on what dictionary you use (this is getting silly).

Interesting definition varations I've found include:
-the supreme or ultimate reality
-a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshipped for doing so, or a representation of this spirit or being

Einsteins beliefs closely resemble Deism, but I agree with you that he might also be considered Agnostic.

However he also says things like this...

The original quote below shys away from Agnosticism, doesn't it...?

As for Einstein being a deist, he's even found on the Deist.com FAQ.

 

he wasn't a hard-line atheist, But saying things like "what's behind the energy" is a far cry from "believing in god". You seem to consistently interpret his words in a way that allows you to continue to make the same erroneous claim.

His "god does not play dice" quote in fact illustrates that he doesn't believe in a god of any kind. In the quote he is refuting quantum probability and making the point that everything needs a formula and everything can be predicted. If everything can be predicted, According to Einstein, Then there can be no supreme being making decisions of any kind. The universe works by laws, Unchanging laws. And this is what he was referring to when he spoke of "god". the unchanging, unconscious laws.

What Einstein wanted to know was where it all came from and why it is the way it is. His only mistake was to use language that people can understand. Is his metaphorical expression entirely lost on you?

 

You got rep' !!! Thanks for telling the truth and breaking the tension.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to lightless again.

 

After reading all of this, the first question that popped in my head was: what does Stephen Hawking think of God?

Interesting info on his website.....