The Most Scientific Man in the World Believes in God

Essentially I hold the same views as Einstein when it comes to God.

When it comes to the creation of the universe, something cannot come from nothing becase...

I really don't think we are so important that God pays all this attention to us, or if he even has the ability to pay attention at all. The more I think about it the less I believe in prophets like Jesus and Mohammed, because I don't think there has ever been any kind of physical human connection to God whatsoever. If you think about all the world's religions, their main disagreement is on the prophets and not on the existence of God - this is the cause for an overwhelming amount of violence in the world today... Probably most.

However, I do have him to thank for life and existence.

If anything Stox your quotes only proved further than Einstein believed in God, but not the bible-style God most of us are familiar with. This is the difference between impersonal/personal God, but I think you were too dense to catch it.

 

Well Webwork thanks for saving me a lot of time, you just summed everything I wanted to say in response to the first page of this post.

From the sounds of it, Einstein rejects organized religion & anthropomorphism, but he still has what sounds like to me as a Deist's opinion on the whole God issue.

Of course, maybe what we should realize from this discussion is that everyone will take this quote to fit their own perspective. We don't know what words the author wanted to emphasize, and to borrow a quote from the Postmodernist philosophy: "The author is dead" so we will never know his explicit intention or personal beliefs.

 

I think you were too "dense" to understand Spinoza's god. Spinoza's god is, As you quoted, The deterministic system of which everything in nature is a part. ie, The universe and the laws that govern it, Not an entity. Spinoza's god is a "god" in a poetic sense. That is what Einstein believed in.

regardless, You can see right there Einstein said in his own words "I am, of course, and have always been an atheist". If, As you seem to think, He believed in a god why do you think in 1945, At the age of 65, 10 years before he died, He professed to being an atheist and to always being an atheist? Apparently you feel better qualified to tell us what he believed in than the man himself.

 

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest

Well, I rest my case about selective reading.

 

He even had scum telling lies about him when he was alive.

 

interesting thread as it gets more views and responses than the new asia extension

 

Is there a reason you refuse to back up your statement? Could it be that there is no legitimate source and that you made it up or it was merely told to you by someone else who was not informed?

 

Yes browntwn, because ronmac is full of sh*t.

Stox somehow I think you're missing the point in differences between personal and impersonal God. Behold...

Regarding Einstein saying he's an athiest, like korr said you're missing the all important sentence "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest" (somehow)..

For example, the closest religion I would identify myself with is Catholicism, however, from the viewpoint of a Catholic priest I am not Catholic. I have never been baptised, nor do I participate in things like confession etc.. But I still go to church on occasion.

If Einstein says he belived in Spinoza's God, which is clearly not a personal God but an impersonal God - a reason behind the universe's complexities, then Einstein is clearly not an athiest.

 

If believing in spinoza's god invalidates someone as an atheist then i would also be invalidated as an atheist if i had a goldfish, Called it "god" and believed it existed. spinozas god isn't what you were referring to when you claimed Einstein believed in god and you know it. What you are doing now is trying to introduce some contrived definition of "god" so you can persist with this lie that Einstein believed in it. What is your motivation for spreading lies about the dead?

hey it's good fun posting quotes from random people just because they agree with me!

 

Thanks stox for saying that einstein , one of the smartest men ever believed in intelligent design and not the random design that you keep spouting that we all know is nonsense.
This shows that god can reveal himself to us through atheiest, he does work in myserious ways doesnt he
ping



letter to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949


Quote:
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.

 

http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2007/10/09/did-albert-einstein-believe-in-god/2


Over here, he talks of god in a very religious way and a very scientific way. Stox, i dedicate this post to you my friend. Big hug to you

Did Albert Einstein Believe in God?

Posted Oct 9th 2007 2:39AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Science, Religion, Christianity, Atheism

In Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, Albert Einstein is depicted as an atheist. Dawkins pretty much has to go this route, because it would be a major embarassment for him if Einstein was a religious believer. Afer all, Dawkins seeks to show that theism is pretty much incompatible with modern science. If Einstein disagrees, then who is Dawkins to say otherwise?

Moreover, as I show in my new book What's So Great About Christianity, most of the great scientists of the past 500 years (Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Brahe, Descartes, Newton, Leibniz, Gassendi, Pascal, Mersenne, Cuvier, Harvey, Dalton, Faraday, Herschel, Joule, Lyell, Lavoisier, Priestley, Kelvin, Ohm, Ampere, Steno, Pasteur, Maxwell, Planck, Mendel, Lemaitre) were devout Christians. Gassendi, Mersenne and Lemaitre were priests.

Faced with this daunting list of believers, Dawkins is desperate to wrest Einstein for the atheist camp.




The problem for Dawkins is that Einstein repeatedly refers to God. Famously Einstein said "God is subtle but He is not malicious" and "God does not play dice" with the universe. Dawkins rewrites Einstein's remarks. "God does not play dice" becomes "Randomness does not lie at the heart of all things." Dawkins insists that his revisions are justified because "Einstein was using 'God' in a purely metaphorical, poetic sense."
Dawkins' case for Einstein's atheism is based on quotations from Max Jammer's book Einstein and Religion. At best, Dawkins writes, Einstein was a pantheist who identified God with the laws of nature themselves. But when philosopher Anthony Flew went to the original source, he discovered that Dawkins had lifted quotations favorable to his case while excluding statements that refuted it. Einstein specifically repudiated both the atheist and the pantheist label. "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist." Dawkins forgot to include that line. While Einstein clearly stated that he did not believe in a "personal God" he also spoke of God as a "superior mind," "Illimitable spirit" and "mysterious force that moves the constellations."

Einstein spoke of the laws of nature pointing to an Infinite Mind that to him represented the true nature of God. "Every one who is seriously engaged in te pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble...My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details that we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

Isn't it interesting that these quotations appear nowhere in Dawkins' book. It seems that atheists like Dawkins have to suppress the facts in order to establish their theories. Can an atheism so selective and indeed manipulative actually claim to be sustained by evidence and reason?

 

Yes, because you know exactly what was going on in my mind when I posted a random quote from Einstein... I smell bittnerness because I've presented you with facts which clearly show Einstein was not an athiest. Can you accept these facts?

Spinoza's philosphy regarding God clearly alludes that the universe is of intelligent design.

Stox, if you believe the universe was created by intelligent design, does this make you an athiest?

End of thread.

 

Pingpong we know you are in trouble when you are forced to copy and paste articles wholesale from that clown Dinesh D'Souza.

No, But max jammers version of spinozas god does, In his book with tries to assert that Einstein was a theist. Do you have any credible unbiased sources or do you just hunt down people who agree with you and quote them?

Again, Spinozas god is a mother nature figure. Not something that actually exists but a word given to describe the apparent order of a system. A bit like "lady luck".

Einstein didn't think the universes was designed. As i have explained, Spinozas god is NOT an entity, It has no consciousness, It has no will, It has no personality. It would be as incapable of designing a universe as "lady luck" is of fixing a football game.

 

You are not a scientist if you believe in God, unless you have verifiable experimental proof that God exists.

 

Yes, this has already been covered...Remember the difference between personal and impersonal God? Sounds like you're getting it now. But nonetheless you're describing some kind of force which both Spinoza and Einstein believe in... You can call it Lady Luck... Mother Nature... Charles....whatever... but Spinoza and Einstein call this God.

I will just quote Spinoza from now on, just to make you happy.

Like the universe and everything within it.

This is what separates us from animals - self realization.

It is incredulous to think that a man who dedicated his life to the study of God is actually an athiest, but it was a good try.

I agree...Einstein was definitely NOT a scientist......Wow.

 

Spinoza only called what he believed in "god" so stupid people could get an idea of what he was talking about. But i guess for some people he couldn't have simplified it enough. Though no matter how simple he made it there will always be deceitful, dishonest liars who will try to twist what he meant in an attempt to build an argument from authority.

If spinozas "god" is NOT an entity, Is NOT conscious, and does NOT have a personality how can it be mistaken for what people mean when they say god now? You started this thread, wrongly, Ignorantly and dishonestly, To insinuate that Einstein was a theist. He most certainly was not. He simply, and possibly naively, used "god" in a poetic sense to describe the apparent order of the universe and the laws that govern it. You can see from his articles and letters that he was constantly battling the filthy lies from the religious regarding his beliefs, so in the face of that, how can you persist with this disgusting dishonesty?

The man clearly did not believe in a celestial, conscious entity. If Einstein was guilty of anything it was underestimating the depths that the religious will sink to and the dishonesty that these nasty pieces of work are capable of.

 

I know, my thoughts exactly. Here, I will make it more simple for you.

Does it make a difference here and now? It's obvious Spinoza believes in a higher power, if you can't see this you're only letting your emotions cloud your judgement.

Einstein clearly states he does not believe in a personal God. If he believes in Spinoza's God then he still clearly believes in a higher power - like I said, call it what you want, they all refer to it as God (Einstein...what a naive guy, right?). It's safe to say they're talking about God.

Goosfraba...Goosfraba.

 

Of course it makes a difference, As long as you are interested in the truth, Honesty and personal integrity... Oh wait, So no, it probably doesn't make a difference to you.

If the god Einstein was referring to was not conscious and was not an entity then he wasn't talking about the same god as you. Einstein's "god" was the laws of physics. Einstein's "god" was entirely poetic. Why are you having so much trouble grasping this simple concept? When Einstein said "god" he was talking about the laws that govern the universe. NOT A CONCIOUS ENTITY.

He fought against these lies while he was alive, he has been dead for 53 years and there are still people lying about him.

 

For not knowing me at all, you apparently know me very well.

Here you're merely assuming that a belief in any kind of God must be a belief in a personal God, which is short-sighted at best.

So according to you, if you don't believe in the traditional personal God which has conscious and free will then you don't believe in God at all?

You're trying to show that believing in an impersonal God is a convoluted and confusing way of believing in something that can be described apart from any notion of deity or higher power, and for this, you're sadly mistaken.

 

That wasn't the voice of Nikola Telsa , he's the most scientific man, but anyways thats nice for Albert. It's not world, it's history, even though it was Nikola .