The Independence of Kosovo !?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by 0lgi, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. eves

    eves Peon

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    #141
    no, i only see Kosovo as being part of Serbia, then Ottoman empire, then Serbia, then Axis occupied, then Serbia again (as a Yugoslav republic), never as a part of Albania....

    as for looking at the ethnic boundaries, are we going to start dividing countries now based on ethnicity? and have a 1000 countries in europe alone?
     
    eves, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  2. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #142
    Now okay I agree at some points with Serbians and Greeks. They have had always fights and contradictions with Albanians and they will never live in peace!

    speed100 , I know where is your point my dear friend. You might hate Albanians , who cares , but its on your good to be quite as you know we can also get land from Macedonia if we want another Albanian Country :)

    You are afraid , and If I were at your position I would be afraid too. The president of FYROM might be Albanian in the following elections and do you know what that means ?

    Means Albanian President , Kosovo President , FYROM President , all of them Albanians

    Its obvious why you are against Kosovo's independence

    The funny thing is that your country FYROM was having a flux of Albanian tourists in Mavrovo (for skiing) every single day and your government added VISAS for all Albanians who would like to pass to FYROM but within a week they took out this VISAS rule :)
    I wonder why did they do this ! Its good having good relations with coming powers!
     
    0lgi, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  3. Algert

    Algert Well-Known Member

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    #143
    EVES how it comes that 95% of Kosovo is Albanian ?
    I don't think you have learned Albanian history, but Kosovo has been populated by Albanians since very ancient times, it was a province called Dardania. But now Kosovo is independent and nothing can be reversed. [​IMG]
    (this was the old flag of Dardania, it looks like the Albanian flag of today )
     
    Algert, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  4. eves

    eves Peon

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    #144
    it is mostly albanian due to ethnic cleansing by internationaly recognized terrorist organization KLA

    as for Kosovo being indepedent. let analyze that "independence"

    - it is governed by the UN and foreign troops
    - it will never be a member of UN
    - it is not recognized by 3/4 countries it borders
    - it's prime minister Hashim Thaci is well known gangster, who is one of the few kosovars who actually has an interest to keep kosovo "indepedent" (read - isolated)
    - Kosovo has a huge uneployment rate and main economic activities are drugs and prostitution
    - ironically, it depends on Serbia for almost any legal trade

    And EU is very well aware of this. EU is practically offering Serbia a membership if they leave Kosovo alone. Why would EU want one of their (future) own to loose 15% of its territory? Common sense tells you that they want Serbia in without Albanians.... i wonder why....
     
    eves, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  5. speed100

    speed100 Peon

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    #145
    Do you understand that this map is only in Albanians history books? This map is drawn in every Albanian mind and they are doing every thing to make it real.
     
    speed100, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  6. blackhumor

    blackhumor Active Member

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    #146
    I also see parts of Greece in there that there are Greek for more than 3.000 years...
    Do you really believe that map is real? Get real...
     
    blackhumor, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  7. blackhumor

    blackhumor Active Member

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    #147
    By the way the flag has the same eagle that most of the countries in the terratory have... It's from the Byzantine empire...
     
    blackhumor, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  8. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #148
    Finally someone has some good points and we can have a real discussion !

    KLA means Kosovo Liberation Army which was created in order to liberate the Albanian territories from Serbians who were making those massachres in 1998

    - It is governed by the UN and foreign troops BUT they have their government too so they will collaborate together and decide whats best for Kosovo
    - Who said it will never be member of UN? And who wants it ? This are big questions
    - Of course its not recognized from 3/4 because Greece has alliance with Serbia but soon they will recognize too.Care to elaborate please which are these 3 / 4 countries ?
    - Hashim Thaci , wont be there forever , he will leave his position so other will come and go. Is he really a Gangster ? When you mean gangster , you mean like Tony Montana ? Carlo Gambino ? Al Pacino ?
    - Of course they have a huge uneployment rate as almost everything was bombarded in 1998 from Serbs. Also Japan after the atomic bomb had many problems in economy , thats something normal. As for the main economic activities I have to say that some Kosovo Albanian who left Kosovo many years ago started making illegal things in the West but that doesn't mean that all Kosovo Albanians are like that
    - All the fault was the congress of London in 1913 where International Laws were not taken in consideration. What Europe did to Albania was something really to be ashamed of and finally justice has been set (actually not yet, we also need our lands in Greece and in Macedonia :))

    EU definitely has its own profits from all of this as I dont think they really care about Kosovo or Serbia

    Nice talking to you

    Olgi
     
    0lgi, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  9. speed100

    speed100 Peon

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    #149
    You see,this is what i'm talking about. Every sqiptar thinks like this. You can get land,but only with your "rabbit" technique, which is very good if you don't care about the lives of your next generations.
    About your funny thing...It's not funny at all. I have seen Albanian "tourists" and you and me knows that "tourist" is not the real word for that.
    "Coming powers"??LoL. SciFi is very popular there,right? It's just a matter of time until the world realize the real idea behind this.
     
    speed100, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  10. Algert

    Algert Well-Known Member

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    #150
    one day Albania will be reunited and then we will see...and stop talking about "rabbit techniques "
     
    Algert, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  11. speed100

    speed100 Peon

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    #151
    Reunited?? What do you mean? Isn't the borders correct as they are now?
     
    speed100, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  12. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #152
    For BlackHumor
    Xeretismata apo tin Alvania prota

    [​IMG]


    This was the map of Europe around 1900 (I wish someone can tell me I photoshoped it !!!) If you can see , All Albanian Parts and Macedonia was completely under Ottoman Empire

    Albania , in 1912 got their independence and they set the borders BUT one year later , in the London's Ambassador's Conference many lands were given to our "neighbors"

    Why you might ask !?

    Pretty simply

    Albanian population was 70 % Muslim and I dont think Europe wanted a big muslim country!!!

    After almost 95 years justice was set and Kosovo got its Independence!!

    Any questions ?! Thanks

    For speed100

    Seriously , I would give lot of $$$ just to know your age and you did you leave FYROM
     
    0lgi, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  13. eves

    eves Peon

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    #153
    -Greece doesnt border Serbia, looking at any map you can see that those 3/4 are Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia.

    -It can never be a member of the UN cause od Security Council veto powers of Russia and China.

    -Is Hashim Thaci a gangster?...well, depends who you ask i guess, i am sure he is a freedom fighter for some. But his activities are well known and everyone can judge for themselves

    - Serbs barely ever used bombs in kosovo, they had police battle it out with rebels and army to guard the borders. You can thank NATO for bombing.

    "actually not yet, we also need our lands in Greece and in Macedonia"
    - and i respect you for your honesty, and i am not even being sarcastic
     
    eves, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  14. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #154
    - Greece doesn't border Serbia BUT its part of The Balkans so it really counts. As far as Montenegro I have information that they will recognize soon. You might not believe but SERBIA recognized Kosovo as independent :)

    What Serbs are doing is something horrible now. Kosovo is independent , they cant change this fact now. However they are making massive demostrations , burning Embassy's in Serbia and they said that they will withdraw their ambassador from all states that recognize Kosovo!

    So okay, they withdraw the ambassodors. Will they win anything ? Its a completely lost battle for them in all aspects so far so instead of shouting and making the tough guys (as they think they have Russia's support in cas e of a war) I would keep quite and try to make Serbia a peaceful country ready to join EU
     
    0lgi, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  15. speed100

    speed100 Peon

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    #155
    I don't understand your point with the map. What do you want to say? Do you like it because its colorful? Do you want me to draw you a nice map with more colors?
    I'm 31 and i go wherever i want. I like to travel. Just because I'm not in my country now that does not mean that i left it.
     
    speed100, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  16. blackhumor

    blackhumor Active Member

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    #156
    blackhumor, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  17. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #157
    blackhumor , I used to live 7 years in Athens and I know the Albanians who live there.

    When I was once in a Taxi , the driver told me , where are you from ? And i replied , Tirana , Albania.

    He laughed. I asked him ,why do you laugh?

    He told me "Its strange as many Albanians who come here say or pretend they are from Saranda" - in this way they would be considered as "greeks" and will live happy in your society

    Albanians in Greece are not real Albanians , someone who sells his own country for a god damn passport is not called Albanian. I used to live there just as my father had work there (emporos) and we came back in1997

    I posted all of this not without purpose , but just to reply to your sentence "By the way I have many friends that are Albanians and many natives from Albania that are Greeks"

    I can guarantee you they are not Albanians ;)

    Good Luck

    Olgi
     
    0lgi, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  18. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #158
    I don't know any sane person in America, in Europe and the World who wants to be governed by islamists.
    Not that muslims are bad, but the religion they follow is not a liberal one (all muslims know it pretty well.)
    Kosovo albanians are just pawns used by one big power having big dreams about Greater Albania.
    If countries were not forced to recnogize Kosovo Independence only a few from EU would recognize them. And of course many Muslim ones.
    All of them following not the rule of law, but their selfish agenda.
     
    ST12, Feb 25, 2008 IP
  19. 0lgi

    0lgi Notable Member

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    #159
    Well religion is something different and please do not start it on this topic as we might deviate too much.

    "You don't know any sane person in America , in Europe and the World who wants to be governed by islamists"

    May you please explain to who you are referring ? Do you know the real meaning of "islamist"?

    Kosovo Albanians might be pawns of a big power , but we are happy as we got the independence. Don't forget almost every country is a pawn of a big power and you know it perfectly

    Also don't forget that the The Faith of Albanians is Albanianism!
     
    0lgi, Feb 26, 2008 IP
  20. olti

    olti Well-Known Member

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    #160
    "Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense.

    History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo, which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue.

    What is true is that they ruled Kosovo for about 250 years, until the final Ottoman takeover in the mid-15th century. Churches and monasteries remain from that period, but there is no more continuity between the medieval Serbian state and today's Serbia than there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece.

    Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb rule, so "conquered" seems the right word.

    But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after 1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006.

    Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system.

    Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process. Therefore, Kosovo has become an ex-Yugoslav state, as any historian could tell you.

    · Noel Malcolm is a senior research fellow at All Souls College, Oxford. He is the author of Kosovo: A Short History
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/26/kosovo.serbia

    *****

    My comment: All serbs and filo-serbs here are welcome to shut up now and to accept the historic + current reality!!
     
    olti, Feb 27, 2008 IP