The Decline of Proportional Representation in America

so what are the arguments for having 12k representatives instead of simply having a direct democracy?

 

Because the USA is not a direct democracy, that's my argument.

 

yeah, you don't need to totally change the constitution to do this, although it is a pretty big step towards an informal direct democracy, where the people create the laws, but de facto, not de jure.

 

These 2 points were not fully addressed so I'll repost them for consideration.

my point about the rep beign a human being was to address the fact that you'd STILL have to present a credible argument to influence their vote. Or in other words, having a rep that represents fewer people doesn't mean every crackpot idea you have will have a bigger voice now. In fact, because you diluted the voting pool, that vote you just affected is even less powerful.

 

Instead of trying vainly to get your point across so hard, go back and reread my response to you. Less voting power is kind of the point. Did you read the part about special interests and political bribery? Did it register up there?

As far as taxpayer money, look at New Hampshire, their representatives get $200 every two working years. Sounds fair for me. Reduce every representative's pay to 0.

 

A direct democracy doesn't work. Look at some history and you will see why.

We had a very good system in place in which our rights and liberties were protected via the structure of the constitution. The founders knew the troubles inherent in democracy and did a great job getting around them. Read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers, they should be mandatory in school but what can you expect from shitty state-run schools?

The system was superb until the 17th amendment.

 

The system worked great until we decided to make the government act like a parent instead of what it was intended to do: protect and enforce the Constitution.

 

well, looking at todays Switzerland I would say direct democracy does work. What are the examples of a direct democracy not working?

a government role is also to "govern", which is a lot more then just protecting and enforcing the constitution.

well, yeah, but then again it doesn't have 12k representatives either. I thought we were talking about a possible solution, or just a hypothetical case

 

Less voting power for who?

You're right I'm going to go back and reread because I must have missed what you're trying to say.

But in response to your post here, how is making each representative's vote less powerful going to stop special interest groups from lobbying more people and just spending less per each vote they buy?

If you reduce their pay, won't that make them even more susceptible to bribery? I agree paying them less would be a great thing but I'm just being realistic when I ask that question.

 

Oh the things I'd like to do to government..

Enough dreaming.

This whole topic is about working within the current system, the structure that we currently have and that was once had in our country's history. A possible solution? Why don't we talk about states' rights or a secession?

Point taken. The hope is constituents would put fear into the lost souls who think about selling out. If I represented 10-40k people, I'd probably know quite a lot of them personally, it wouldn't be in my best interests to ignore their best interests. They work for us.