The day Israel used a boy aged 13 as a Human Shield

a couple of more questions
a-if you say the theft of organs is not such a bad thing then the article does not accuse israel of doing such a bad thing,[ a more acceptable thing than the other stuff you post, and you do not seem to think it is wrong to link those and write about them ]
b-we talk about what other nations do wrong all the time, chinese govt, russian govt, iranian govt, US govt, scottish govt, and so on. do you feel we should not talk about your country when we feel it is doing something wrong?
now the question should be, is it correct or not, and is it bad or not.
for example if they posted that israel just invented a new fuel source even when it is not true, you are not going to say this is anti semitic! are you? or if they say something that is bad but true. would you call that anti semitic?

i also do not see this completely unnatural that this guy saw the report about the organ sellers in jersey and said to himself, what the shit! maybe i should have paid more attention to this palestanian people and didn't dismiss it automatically. so he writes the article and asks for an investigation. i do not see a definite anti semitic intentions.
c-now if there is a way to investigate this matter, do you support an investigation. and if your govt refuses to investigate, do you support an international investigation. if it can be shown that some theft of organs did indeed have occurred of course.
d-if your govt was aware of instances that the organ teft and selling did indeed occur, what would you think about them calling the writer anti semitic?

 

it was not only that 1992 case, and New Jersey case,

first, before I forget, the recent scandal in New Jersey is linked to Israel, and not seperated from it:

this gang in new Jersey, been arrested for organs trafficking and money laundering for Israeli organizations, but why go far, what about Prof. Yehuda Hiss in Israel, where is he now, is he spending some period in jail? or not?


guess what? Prof. Yehuda Hiss was not arrested, but what did he do?

read the above, and think a little, if they do this to their own soldiers, wouldn't they do it to Palestinians? of course they will, and it won't be surprising if they killed them intentionally for the sole purpose of harvesting their organs, they killed them before just for fun, like in Mahomud Salah case, and later lied and said he was a holding explosives to do a suicide bombing.



I have to go now, will continue later, with more about the Israeli organs business.

 

Looking at the pictures it would appear he has bombs strapped to his person. He was detained, isolated, then immobilized so that a bomb exploding robot could be used to defuse any ordinance still on his person.

That's how it looks to me.

 

To focus, I will answer only question b, because it touches the core of things.

I will make another attempt. Hopefully you will get it this time.

As a prerequisite to what I write below, please refresh your memory about the meaning of two distinctive terms, Nationality, and Religion, in particularly the differences between them. Indeed, the differences between nationality-religion in the jewish-israel case are slightly blurred in comparison with other cases, but they are firm and do hold. To illustrate, there are many jews (=religion) who despise Israel, and are themselves despised by other jews, some of which live in Israel (=nationality), such as your dear friend chaostrivia. There are also very patriot Israelis who are not jewish.

Now that we understand the difference between nationality and religion, we take a step further by making a small "gedanken-experiment", if you don't mind.

1) Assume a world with a country(=nationality) called: "Liliput". In Liliput, the dominant religion(=religion) of the people is called "DPism", but there are also many followers of other religions, such as "googlism", or "yahooism".

2) "DPism" is a world religion - with many followers around the world, some never been in Liliput nor even like Liliput.

3) In our imaginary world, you, pizzaman is a journalist.

4) One day, you stumble upon a story. Members of the "googlism" religion that live in Liliput accuse Liliput (not all the DPists of the world!) for stealing their bicycle. But when you hear the allegations at the time, you find them so unlikely to be true, that you decide not write about it at all.

5) 17 years have passed. One day you sit at the ease of your armchair at home, open the newspaper, and the headlines are scream at you:
"A gang of DPists where arrested in "Wonderland" (=a country on the other side of the globe in comparison with liliput), charged and found guilty with bicycle theft". Here I want to draw your attention to the likely possibility, that all members of the DPists gang never visited liliput, have nothing do to with liliput, and maybe even hate liliput and the other DPists that live in Liliput.

In that case, will you in a "completely natural" manner, say to yourself:
"WHAT THE SHIT! Maybe i should have paid more attention to the googlists of Liliput and didn't dismiss it automatically!" ?


The arrest of the DPists of Wonderful DOES NOT strengthen the validity of the googlists' allegations against LILIPUT, even if it occured on the same day and not after 17 years have passed!


Its hard for me to bring you the bad news:
If you disagree with enlarged paragraph (= you now say that the googlists' allegations against liliput which you previously discarded as BS become more valid in a "completely natural" way in light of the wonderland affair), then you are not only suffering severely faulted logical thinking[sup]**[/sup], but you are also (only subconciously, I hope) an "anti-DPist", just as the author of the Swedish tabloid article.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[sup]**[/sup] (optional) Mathematical supplement:

The "completely natural" strengthening of the googlists allegations against Liliput through the emergence of the new evidence related with wonderland's DPists is a several logical fallacy.
Allow me to be arrogant a bit and not expect you to locate your specific error here.

Instead, I found something new nice you.
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
You made one of the 20 mistakes there, should I tell you which or you tell find it yourself?

 

the article that i saw said that the organs were from israel, and i was looking at that angle. i hope you see what i mean.
would you answer a and c and d at any order that you wish please.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...ested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html

 

(did you read my post?)

I don't see how the 19 year old palestinian falls under the bolded definition of "vulnerable people in Israel". Now you say that there aren't any poor people in Israel? are we all saudi-sheikhs? hmmmm.... (did I say prejudice?)
But nevermind, don't go there.

I will then "reactivate" the 17 years gap and put it back into the equation.

And by the TRIVIAL mathematical logic presented in my previous post I will argue again: the only thing that could possibly link between the two cases is a logically faulted, full-with-prejudice, mind. You have only these two cases. nothing more. The only thing that can make you interpret "vulnerable people in Israel" as the Palestinian guy, is if you are already convinced that Israel is stealing organs! and looking for "support". This is just like the christians and muslims on DP who posts "scientific proofs" for the validity of the new testament of the quran !

and:

This is not the point at all! In this and previous posts I talk about one thing only: is the article anti-semitic?
If the chinese gov. stole a bicycle from the tibetians, but you decide not to report it.
And later, you see chinese gang from new york is convicted of stealing bicycle and tracking them through china, will you "completely naturally" assume that the Chinese NY gang trafficked tibetian bicycle? YOU WOULDNT!. Would the NY case strengthen the likelihood that the Tibetan allegation are true? OFF COURSE NOT! simply because you do not have prejudice against chinese, but unfortunately, you do have against jews. If you say that this article is not anti-semitic, than you say that the conviction of the Chinese NY gang will "prove" or "support" the allegations of the Tibetans against the Chinese government (with a 17 years gap) !

I just want you to understand why this is a classical blood libel, and nothing but pure anti-semitic article. Once you understand, I can relate to point a and c. Everybody in Israel understood that immediately. The other newspapers in Sweden understood that immediately. I think now its your turn. I don't expect this from Imad, but from you, I do.

When I heared the Swedish reporter on Israeli TV, he just didn't understand that nothing by making this twisted link is what makes his an anti-semite. If he did not mention the new jersey case, no scandal will not appear at all! you starting to understand??? An "Anti-Semit" isn't necessarily just one who is ready to put all jews in gas-chambers without remorse any time. "Anti-semite" is a person who's prejudice paralyzes his logical thinking and makes him see a link between TOTALLY UNRELATED events (1992 vs. 2009, zionists vs. non-zionist). Also subconciously!

Try to refute my simple logical argument from previous post. Do not use "jews", "USA", and "Israel". These words involve emotions and disturb your thinking. Talk to me in "DPists", "googlists", "wonderland" and "liliput" terms, remembering that nationality and religion are two distinctive terms. Remember that they are just stealing bicycles. Read my previous post again with a piece of paper and a pen. Disconnect everything you think about jews.

If you have a healthy mind you will reach the only possible mathematic outcome: "The arrest of the DPists of Wonderful DOES NOT strengthen the validity of the googlists' allegations against LILIPUT". If you can mathematically show otherwise, surprise me!

Or you could just say: "hey, I see what I was missing. Thanks for putting the mirror in front of my face showing my prejudice, that paralyzed my reason and logical thinking." It happens to me a lot that I am convinced of something about me or one of my friends, until somebody/something that happens puts this mirror in front of my face, and makes me change my views.

 

this is not a bicycle. people ask about origin of illegal organs all the time. look at it from the victim's point of view.
now i would also add that if an israeli steals organs like in case of dr hiss that imad has presented. i would not hold the state of israel responsible.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20090825a2.html

 

you are missing an important point here Chaos, Palestinians been trying to get the world's attention about this organs stealing done by Israel since LONG, even the Palestinian president then said on an interview:

nobody listened then, and this was not the only time but also:

and many other cases reported by Palestinians and others here

Palestinians been demanding for an investigation since long, they do not need another joke investigation done by Israel, they need an independent organization to do it.

and you say antisemitic? whatever, there should be an investigation, if Israel is so sure they are not guilty, they won't cry antisemitic.

 

more over this is another try to silence those who pride themselves with the freedom of speech, Sweden for long has been known for it's support to humanitarian issues, and their support to the oppressed in the world,

as it was admirable how Scotland did not bow to the bully USA regarding Megrahi, Sweden is also resisting the Israeli tries to silence them with the empty accusations of antisemitism.

so sure nothing went wrong there in Israel? then let an unbiased independent group make an investigation, then you can discredit that Swedish newspaper, Arabs and Palestinians ..etc

 

Ok. So you understand what I say and chose not to say anything about it?
Bicycles or organs, this is what refutes my clear line of argumentation?....
I followed you link, clicked CTRL+F and searched for "ISRAEL", when I didn't find, I closed my browser.
I can not express my deep sadness hearing you insist there is a connection between the two cases which is other than "JEWS".

I want to add another point of view that support my argument (not that it needs it.....) maybe it will help you further, I'm really running out of "logical" ammo here:

In the swedish tabloid, Israel is accused by the Palestinians (not by the reporter, as he said in his own words) for stealing the organs of a teenager. In the last 10 years of conflict, Israel was accused by the Palestinians and others in dozens if not hundreds of other occasions for various things. I name two famous events out of many: Muhammed Al Durrah, Jenin "massacre".

Although you might find here and there allegations of antisemitic motives but individuals or small organization, they are clearly false! Unlike with the Swedish tabloid case, OFFICIAL Israel never accused them of being motivated by antisemitism. Because they are not: they are simply lies brought up as part of a national struggle, some might even be true.

On the "bicycle vs. organ" principle, I hope that you agree that alleged murder is worse than organ stealing. Yet, I can not remember any other case, where OFFICIAL ISRAEL is so furious. As I am. The preplanned visit of the swedish foreign minister in 7 days is in danger of cancellation because of the affair.

The swedish tabloid accused Israel, but between the lines it accused "JEWS". We simply can not accept that! this is the main reason why this country exists, so that such things will not be acceptable in the world anymore!
The palestinian and european propaganda lies (or truths, nevermind) mentioned above accused "ISRAEL", and we can live with that, we are used to live with that.

I have been chatting with you quite some time and although you never expressed that you are not so fond of jews, seeing the "completely natural" link between the two isolated, unrelated cases that serve to "strengthen" the probability that Israel is an organ stealer, It is clear to me that you have a lot of prejudice against JEWS (not Israel) which was unveiled in this thread, and this is what blocking your ability to understand why the article is anti-semitic. This is the only outcome of my very simple, logical, clean argumentation from couple of posts up, conveniently ignored by you.

I gave you the opportunity to discuss bicycles, liliputs, DPists and googlists instead of jews palestinians israel usa etc with me and show me that i'm wrong, but you didn't take on the challenge, we both know why.

The swedish tabloid article is an anti-semitic article. Its place is in the egyptian, saudi, jordanian etc' newspapers (where we ready many such article, TV programmes etc'), and not in the civilized world. All westerns on DP agree with me, and so does the Swedish government and media. The jihad trio, Imad,new,ThraXed, and.... you - do not agree. Think about what does that say.

Read my gedankenexperiment and try to work it. It is not that complicated!

Try to refute it please or say "U're right!".
Sticking to bad things such as prejudice is less shameful than admitting you made a simple, natural, innocent and VERY HUMAN mistake without even being conscious about it. You are not the only person on earth who was a bit prejudicial and didn't notice it! Let me tell you, me too sometimes!, honestly, although I am always trying to be VERY aware of it, sometimes it is stronger than me.
http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3266&date=20060314
Pizzaman you can do it! I hold your hand! Do it!

 

obviously you look at everything from a special point of view. i do not differentiate between jewish and others. i am concerned between weak and strong. for example. when i found out that a jewish youngster was arrested in iran for stoning some bank or building, i wrote a comment in the iranian president blog http://www.ahmadinejad.ir/
here i do see why the writer could be concerned about this matter. i do not see into his heart. maybe i do not see it because i was not subjected to discrimination. if i seem prejudice i apologize for it. i do not mean to be.
but i do see that palestanians might want an independent inquiry. considering dr hiss situation.

 

I am not tired of your reluctance, not incapability, to understand.
I will try again. If not me, who would?

Like the jihad-passion that I smell from Imad when I read his posts against Israel,
you should smell that the same passion now in what I write, this time its a zionist one !
This is exactly the reason why Israel should exist - because of cases like this and people like the swedish reporter!

IT
IS
NOT
MY
POINT!

The Iranian jew is again, not connected to the issue and surely does not prove that you do not suffer from prejudice against jews. but forget about it. lets stick to the same subject. which is:

THE SWEDISH ARTICLE IS ANTI-SEMITIC. this is all I am trying to convince you, and I feel that I might even succeed.

He IS probably concerned.
But I fail to see why he was not that much concerned in 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and then when a bunch of New Jersey jews were accused of organ traficking, suddenly he became very concerned. If the New Jersey jews trafficked bicycle, would he be concerned either? You don't think that these are the "same" organs or from the "same batch" or relate to the same "criminal case", if it was to come in front of a judge do you?

He is accusing world jewry of a conspiration: Israel is one arm of the squid, the jews of New jersey is another arm of the squid, our dear friend imad "mentioned" couple of other arms of the squid: the oiled, dangerous, jewish machine that will conquest the world!

Official Israel was NEVER before SO FURIOUS as in this case. And we damn have the right to be.

He just can't see that the link that he made in the article is motivated by his PREJUDICIAL (Anti-Semitic) opinions. Everybody who isn't, such as the Sweds, can see it. I hope that you will be able to see it to. Trying to refute my DPists and googlist argumentation I invested so much time to create for you, and failing to do so, will be a good starting point! good luck!

 

i also dismissed it. i dismissed it even after the jersey news. i found out about dr hiss. a few days ago from one of the comments in the haaretz.
this is why i became concerned. how do you know if nobody is doing it? or a group. did you read the hiss article? i am also concerned abot the babies and rabin autopsy
ps: i have nor read the article. do you have a link to an english translation

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/90518

 

Oh, so now that we agree that the Swedish Article is a terrible anti-semitic blood libel, (do we?)

Regarding Hiss, All I remember is:
There were many scandals in Israel something couple of years ago (1996-2003) involving Dr. Hiss, which led to his forced resignation.

I google it up for you. This is what I found:

All media reports I stumbled upon say that he was taking organs from corpses to be used for his own medical research, and for education of his students, usually without permission. I did not stumble on any accusation that he was trafficking organs for profit purposes, nonetheless palestinian organs.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2914398,00.html an article about him being fired by the minister of health.
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2711179,00.html the mother of a dead (Israeli) soldier asked for a danish investigator to investigate missing organs in her son's body. The external danish investigator found Hiss guilty of mistreatment.
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-1970454,00.html an article about the disappearing of organs and accusations towards hiss for stealing organs for research.

All organs of Israeli, didn't find anything about Palestinian organs.

In the wikiepdia article about him http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/יהודה_היס , it is mentioned that he operated on rabin and this fact is a basis of many conspiration theories but you know that no murder or event exists which do not have more than 1 conspiration theory...

Even if we assume (for absolutely no evident reason!) that it was Hiss who personally took the organ of the Palestinian guy mentioned in the Swedish tabloid article, IT IS STILL AN ANTI-SEMITIC ARTICLE!

But I think that you should not be so much concerned about Hiss, it is not an issue that bares any world-"Politics & Religion"-kind of importance, unless imad and new really want it to be.

 

what is this guy doing now? you know that the time frame is not way off base. also you notice that he was investigated for selling organs. also that he was not alone. why didn't the investigation continue? what was the result of the said investigation?
the date of your article is in 2004 that he was fired. the date of the article that i posted was 2005 and say he kept his job. i do not read hebrew but the date is in english
i have not read the swedish article. i need a translation

 

I don't know what he is doing now and I don't really care.

The article you posted says similar thing as the wikipedia Hiss entry, that he was fired only from directing of the national pathological institute , but kept another kind of job there.

BTW Your source, "Arutz Sheva", is the internet version of the extreme settlers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arutz_Sheva . As I am telling Imad that I am against "Agenda" sites, I am also against this agenda site, which supports the interest of the nationalist religious zionists.

FORGET HISS , it is a negligible Israeli internal case, and has no political meaning.
If you want to believe that Hiss is connected with the NJ gang, be my guest. But I really hope you are not suggesting that we could PROVE it by posting on a webmaster forum and solve a complicated international crime....

I stress, again, what is important for me to say and make clear It is not the organs. It is the article itself! If he mentioned either the NJ organ trafficking OR the palestinian 1992 case, the article was pretty much fine.

The poor Palestinian guy from 1992 has NOTHING to do with this, not at least until you provide any kind proof, indication, or even an imaginary allegation! did the palestinian's family back in 1992 connect him with the NJ jews? Did the reporter say in the article how they are connected? no. The article did not explicitly draw a connecting line between the two cases. That would be "politically-incorrect". Instead, they mentioned X, then mentioned Y, and it is for the reader to "do the math" by himself. The connection is obvious, after all, no need to write it down, everybody knows! --> "jews here, jews there, same old conspiring greedy jews".

Those who identified this sick blank void in the article which is passively suggesting the reader to "do the math" by himself were repulsed and protested loudly, not only in Israel but also and above all in sweden.
Others, who did not identify it, either due to weak ability to think or concious/unconcious antisemitism, very innocently called "for an investigation".

If I believed in god I would have prayed that you said bye bye to imad, new, and ThraXed, and switched from the 2nd to the 1st group of people.

 

This is very typical, a Swedish newspaper publish something about stealing organs, and it clearly mentions that they do not say it is true or not true, but for sure something worth investigating, what happens next is:

- Israel trying to discredit the Swedish Journalist and accuse him of antisemitism for writing that article.

- Israel trying to discredit the Swedish newspaper and accuse it of antisemitism for allowing that article to be published.

- Israel trying to discredit the Swedish Government and accuse it of antisemitism for not condemning the article, even though there is no reason to condemn it.

- Israel trying to discredit Sweden and accuse it of antisemitism.

- Israel trying to discredit Europe and accuse it of antisemitism.

umm, hay, can somebody please investigate it, not to find about organs anymore, but now to see if Israel accusations are justified or not.

 

Go investigate. Most people do that before they accuse, but hey now that you have accused, go ahead and investigate until your heart is content. While you are at it, why don't you also investigate the holocaust and maybe you can help inform us that some claim the Jews are making is false.

Why is the Jordanian government not investigating this? Don't they care about their own citizens and the risk to their lives traveling to Israel. Why is Sweden not investigating?

Who are you mad at imad? Who is not doing your bidding? Who is stopping anyone from investigating? Why is there no investigation into Area 51? I mean, there are way more articles on it than this. I demand an international investigation. Aliens are stealing organs from Jews forcing them to steal them from Arabs. Damn aliens.

 

If you don't have a political blog already, you should definitely start one. You're an excellent writer, and it's been interesting reading this thread. The Swedish article is ridiculous, and irresponsible journalism. I despise hate speech laws, so my take on this is a reluctance to attempt to restrict their speech, but it could easily be countered in the media. I'm not sure if you've seen this one, here's an article suggesting satanic jews are responsible for the flu pandemic.

 

brwontwn, rebecca, chaos, ridiculing it won't work here, it is like someone saying:

I think ABC stole $100 from XYZ, it must be investigated"

then browntwon comes and say: "hahah, really, yeah, also ABC stole the statue of liberty!"

then rebecca comes to say: "lol, I think ABC came from space!"

then Chaos comes to say: "lmao, also ABC is responsible for Nile going upside down, to steal its water."

do you see how much silly you are?

this reminds me always with Lavon Affair and many other incidents, in Lavon Affair, Israel bombed Egyptian, American, and English civilian targets in Egypt, and when Egypt caught it, and accused Israel, Israel started to cry (Antisemitism, Antisemitism) and ridiculing it, but later Israel admitted it, after the investigation been published.

usually in such cases, people work with evidences, reports, studies, and this is what been done in this case, and it all point that Israel been involved in such practices since long, so the suggestion would not be to ridicule it, as you all used to do, but to investigate,

why do you feel that investigation is bad for you? it is bad for you only in one case, when you know this happened, I believe then, you will act childish and cry antisemitism, but when you are so sure there was nothing wrong, you will be the first to demand an investigation, because then it will be a victory against those who accused, and the Swedish newspaper who published it.

for Arabs, they are 100% sure Israel did it, and they reported it in many cases, besides they can't be unbiased, the investigation should be done by a third party, who is unbiased, and known for its independence and honesty.