It may sound better, but it is not historically true. Who started the Korean War? Truman (D) Who ended the Korean War? Eisenhower (R) Started Vietnam? Kennedy/Johnson (D + D) Ended Vietnam? Nixon (failed) + Ford (R + R) Now if you want to call Ford and Eisenhower defeatists, so be it. But they were conservatives and Republicans.
Actually, it's very true. We're not talking about the one time reasonable democrat party who were not afraid to stand up for their country. We're talking about self-loathing blame America first defeatism liberals. I'm I correct in observing that you also blamed your country for Iran's threats? Is there anything you wouldn't sell America out over? Anything...at all? (Besides ron paul?)
What does your defeatism and "blame America first" comments have to do with what America stands for? What a sell out. Right in the middle of a dishonest thread too
And how did these guys stand up for America by going to Korea and Vietnam? How did it serve the American people to go to war for other nations? To use our lives and taxes to support someone else's agenda? So basically, you are calling Eisenhower and Ford self-loathing blame America first defeatism Liberals. Good luck with that. It just proves that if I give you enough rope, you'll hang yourself on the crazy gang porch. Where did I mention Iran? Link please.
Are you answering a question with a question because my intellect is needed to break down the understood foundation of the discussion, or is it because you have simply run out of hot air? What does the War in Iraq have to do with what America stands for? Define what America stands for. It's immoral for you to continue these debates without expressing what values you feel are supremely American.
freedom, democracy, anti-terrorism. Just because i support our cause doesn't mean i support how it's being conducted. If it were me, i would've blown that place to hell in 2003, and help "rebuild" their country but right now we're pissing around waiting for them to set up some kind of political system. If you want to stop terrorism you need to beat them at their own game. We should be gutting these bastards at Gitmo with no remorse. And for the people that say "oh well then they'll just do that to us in return" guess what dumbass, THEY ALREADY ARE DOING IT. will we "stoop to that level?" .. yeah, that's war. War is no tea-party, if you need to instill fear into the enemy then that is what you do to win. I never saw a war won from the white house. Patton was the most feared general in WWII for a reason. my personal opinions about it all, idc how i come across
No. Your anti-American comment and question was not addressed to me. Therefore I have no obligation to answer it. It was a deflection on your part when someone pointed out your treasonous behavior. Now answer my question.
Actually, the foundations of Americans values are life and liberty. For Americans. Anti-terrorism has nothing to do with the American tradition. I thought you believed in democracy? To conduct war like the terrorists would make us... ding ding Terrorists! You can't claim to stand for freedom and democracy and then commit crimes against humanity. Not if you are sane. Do you believe that by settling down Iraq, Al Queda will cease to exist? Do you think Bin Laden will just give up and open a convenience store in Peshawar? Do you think the Iranians will stop trying to develop nukes? I respect your right to an opinion, but they seem to be in conflict with one another. It was addressed to you. High compliment from the Master Deflector. A Junior Karl Rove in training! Precisely. I'm not afraid of your question and pledge to answer it. As soon as you answer mine.
Actually, it would make you a traitor for claiming such in a dishonest manner. Now you are selling soldiers out by calling them terrorists. You seem to support others doing what you accuse your country of doing. No one has said he will cease to exist. Another strawman argument to bolster your anti-Americanism. Not at all. Claiming such as a defensive maneuver doesn't make it so. It was addressed to Nate. He also answered it. Don't be a liar too. The treason is bad enough as it is. I'm no longer interested in your answer. You've more than proven yourself as a traitor to me this evening. I knew you were a borderline sellout, but this is just shameful. What a disgrace.
Lmao at treason. Lmao at traitor. You're the one who refuses to fight in the war you want others to fight for you, repeatedly refuse to post (from your legendary history) the reasons why you cannot participate, despite insisting you were in the service. You mock the soldiers with your "Bush-esque" service record, and refuse to support them by giving Bush the President a free pass when he doesn't supply them adequately in the field. Again with the British Loyalist analogy, you will sell out America to the King and then have the wherewithal to claim that I have committed treason and am a traitor. Perhaps to your King, but not to the American people. Too funny for words. You're so Anti-American, the values, not the dogma that you can't even see that you're against everything good in this country.
I've served my country. I suspect back when you were breastfeeding. Other than sell it out and blame it for everything, have you ever done anything for your country? Anything at all? Blatant lie, but then people like you are not known for their integrity. This "new" report is nothing more than a rehash of old news. No one, including myself, suggests there haven't been some problems. I just don't sell my country out over it like you have. You breed negativity in every post and offer nothing but contempt for your country. You'd be the same type of hack that spit on soldiers returning from Vietnam. There is no analogy here. Ironically, people of that day fought for America. Something you seem unwilling to do, for any cost. Reminds me of an old quote: Perhaps Mill knew your family back then. Every day is opposite day when selling out America. To you, the only thing you could ever find good in America is defeat. And that's sad that you are so willing to sell your country out day in and day out because of blind hatred for one man.
Saving the lives of our soldiers is not defeat. It is a good thing. Bolstering our domestic defense is a good thing. It is not defeat. Increasing our domestic readiness to threats is a good thing. It is not defeat. Your war president is the same guy who (according to the 9-11 commission report) was reportedly warned about an aerial terror attack and did nothing. And now he is spilling the blood of Americans on some crusade to bring democracy to a country that is not ready for it, plotting to pay for the war with the oil profits, profits the Iraqi nationalists have no interest in sharing. So we're left with a country that is losing lives, lowers our international standing, and increasingly becoming indebted to foreign powers like China and Japan. And you say that changing that is defeat. I say changing it is in the spirit of independence, life and liberty. Maybe you will feel that way too when Chinese food isn't Friday night take-out, but a gourmet meal you can no longer afford.
I'm not too fancy with the multi-quote stuff but i'll answer the main points. "I thought you believed in democracy?" I do and they're taking too long to set one up themselves. I don't think they're taking us seriously because Bush and his admin. have gone so far liberal. An unfortunate side effect of most politicians that are once hopeful.. "To conduct war like the terrorists would make us... ding ding Terrorists!" Did it make us terrorists when we nuked Japan twice? Nope, that's war baby.. fight fire with fire. "Do you believe that by settling down Iraq, Al Queda will cease to exist? Do you think Bin Laden will just give up and open a convenience store in Peshawar? Do you think the Iranians will stop trying to develop nukes?" It's the pacifists that think he will just "give up".. little do you know that mentality feeds into their violence, making them think we're weaker. Did Hitler stop when the Jews allowed them to be bundled up and put in an oven? nope. Some people never learn, but the ones that do know.. you don't take anyones shit.. ever. And when you're the top dog, you look after the little guys, but when it comes down to it- you let everyone else know you mean business. That's life, we live in a savage world and live by savage rules. There will NEVER be world peace, that's for fiction writers.
btw i respect your opinion too, but when it comes to politics and beliefs, i'll tell you straight up what i think. Cause i gotta hear everyone else's shit everyday, whether it's on the tv, friends, or whatever else is out there trying to sneak it's liberal agenda into the minds of the weak.
You've already admitted you don't care about them. You only care about yourself and your views. No one has suggested home defense is defeat. Strawman argument. No one has suggested domestic readiness isn't a good thing. Strawman argument. Prove it. The only thing you care about soldiers, is seeing their defeat. Not unlike your country. Lying all the way to achieve that message. Like I've said before, only the message matters. We've always been indebted to others. Lives are lost in wars, it's not a new phenomenon. I'm grateful there are people out there, unlike yourself, who are willing to fight for our country. It's a shame you don't feel the same way, especially considering you've never done anything for the freedoms you've stole off the backs of others. While others are dying for you, you complain about it. Typical ungrateful liberal. I say that you just wrote a bunch of hog shit and tried to credit it to me. But then dishonesty seems to be your fortay. Fresh round of lies to cover your hatred of our country? I'm game if you are. How about rewriting the term patriotism!
Perhaps because we can't expect to export democracy with the barrel of a gun? Russia found democracy without America having to go to war. When the people are ready, just as we were under the British, they will establish their own laws and their own national identity. It can't be handed over and transform a society. There is no evidence of that ever working. The difference is, we formally declared war in Congress against several sovereign nations. Al Queda is not a nation. It's barely a group. It's a way of thinking. You can nuke Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and I'm pretty sure that Al Queda would still exist somewhere. Maybe Malaysia. Maybe Saudi Arabia. Where do you stop nuking? Against the forces of communism, we didn't have to resort to nuclear war. We're going to use it to stamp out half of humanity to squash Bin Laden and his twelve merry terrorists? Are you saying that the Jews allowed themselves to be gassed? There is a big gap in the historical references you offer. I recommend you Google for the 9-11 commission report and read it. It's fascinating to understand the actual size of Al Queda. It might surprise you how small an organization it is. Smaller than a lot of Shriners Clubs. I'm ok with you making a decision to look after the little guy. I'd rather you do it with your life and your money than with my families lives and their taxes. The agenda of policing the world doesn't serve American interests (the collective people, not the corporations or politicians). I admire your stance on being macho, but life and death aren't a video game. Most veterans tend towards this stance on war. That it is a measure of last resort, not a threat to be bandied about to coerce and intimidate.
Actually, it very much does serve our interests. Isolationism is a terrible foreign policy. Were we not there for our allies (something you seem to be oblivious to), Europe would be much different today. That would have very much affected our interests. Were it not for our intervention in Korea, South Koreans would live under what N. Korea currently lives under. We do a lot of business with South Korea, even though it is a small country. Were it not for our help, Kuwait would be a different country today. We do business with Kuwait. What's really a shame is, we didn't do anything for Rwanda. It's a shame we're not doing anything for the killing fields of Darfur. Sadly, we can't do everything. I'm sure our Forefathers would not approve of turning a blind eye to evil, though I have no doubt some surely would. Our country has done much good for many people around the world. But you would never give your country credit for such.