1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

The big Obama ad: American Stories, American Solutions

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by jazzylee77, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. #1
    I just watched the Obama half hour thing on youtube. My response? (sarcasm follows) Gosh! People have to buy their own groceries and take care of themselves? That's terrible! Good thing Barack is here to rob the achievers and lord over us! I wouldn't want folks to get self motivated or depend on the generosity of their neighbors or church in hard times. Best to let them develop a sense of entitlement to take from those who have more than they need, even though they may have struggled for years to earn it.
    SEMrush
    Aaaargh! Solving those problems with government has been tried and failed over and over! It doesn't work! When government gets out of the way, that's when good things happen.

    Liberals measure compassion by how many people are given welfare. Conservatives measure compassion by how many people no longer need it. - Rush Limbaugh
     
    jazzylee77, Oct 30, 2008 IP
    SEMrush
  2. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

    Messages:
    5,696
    Likes Received:
    288
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    280
    #2
    So in a time of crisis you want people to ask their neighbors for help? No thanks, I'd rather go to my government where I know I'm guaranteed help because I paid taxes. It's their job to help me and protect me when I need it else why pay taxes?

    Guess what we've had a progressive tax for quite some time now. The "achievers" taxes were the same during the Clinton administration as they are about to be under Barack. The economy stayed strong and we had a budget surplus. Oh noes!! :eek:

    Putting aside the idea that in times like these where everyone is looking out for themselves the idea of neighbors helping neighbors is RIDICULOUS if you're being intellectually honest..... The poor outnumber the rich by so much it is mathematically impossible.

    Oh but wait you want them to ask a magic sky daddy in the clouds to help them???? That's seriously your answer????

    You know how many people waste time believing nonsense like that and pray to God only to realize NOTHING happens? How many of those poor people who really can't afford it are paying 10% of their earnings into "church ties" so their pastor can ride around in a benz and his wife a jaguar?

    When nothing happens oh it's "God helps those who help themselves". But when the people try and help themselves and STILL nothing happens oh it's "God works in mysterious ways". And the excuses go on and on until something happens. Then it's "God's work"

    Words cannot describe the profound brainwashing it takes to make otherwise normal. rational people think in that way....

    You're right... let's wait for God to do something..... :rolleyes: How many times has that idiocy been tried over the centuries? MILLIONS? BILLIONS?

    No better yet, let's lower the taxes for everyone. Then let's decrease government to as small a figure as we can make it so that even if it wanted to help it couldn't. Then let everyone fight for themselves while large corporations run amuck with no regulation. Let them merge and form monopolies. That'll help the economy out bunches!

    John McCain will lose this election because bashing someone else without having an actual plan of your own is ridiculous. His only plan is to attack Barack's plan... seriously.

    Because when you talk about his plan and realize it's the same as Bush's.... well thankfully it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see through that.
    No, conservatives want to take away welfare whether they still need it or not. but you're quoting Rush Limbaugh so I now know there is no helping you.
     
    GeorgeB., Oct 30, 2008 IP
  3. jazzylee77

    jazzylee77 Peon

    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    36
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #3
    The private sector can always do it more efficiently than the government. As far as what their job is, check the constitution. It says promote the general welfare, not provide or insure. And of course you'd rather go to the government in anonymity...thats part of why it is so destructive to incentive. Why tighten the belt or take an extra job to get through a tough time? Especially if it just means you will be taxed more?


    And when that tax rate goes up you can track it's effect in the DOW for example.

    [​IMG]

    Hoover and Roosevelt increased taxes in the 30s deepening the recession while other countries rebounded from the same economic problems. The war eventually ended that recession

    The Dow takes another dive after Carters Tax hike.

    Then the Reagan tax cuts gave a long period of Economic growth that continued into the Clinton Administration.

    The Dow took a dive again following 911 then showing recovery after the Bush Tax cuts, at least till the housing debacle created by the current congressional clowns.


    First they should look out for themselves, this is unselfish as it means no one has to take care of them. Then they have the means to help someone else who may really need it. If the so called rich aren't burdened with financing wasteful programs they will create more jobs. We have the richest 'poor' people in the world. Expecting the 'outnumbered' rich to keep sacrificing and working to support all those 'poor' is RIDICULOUS if you're being intellectually honest.

    Uh, no. That is what we call a straw man. I never mentioned God. Churches were just an example of private local charity, and I see it working quite well for hardship cases in my community.

    Churches can be somewhat wasteful with their charities. It can happen with any large organization that doles out private funds like say... THE GOVERNMENT! Only ten times as bad. Local charities can be held locally responsible. All the "Gods work" stuff is your own wandering theme. I see no need to justify or attack faith other than to agree it should be seasoned with reason. Just as the poor should know better than to play the lottery. Well anyone should know better!

    When people try and fail, that is part of what makes this country great. The fact that we can fail and try again and again. We have the freedom to keep trying our ideas, but in the end are responsible for our actions. And knowing there is a reward that won't be tasked at confiscatory rates keeps us working till we get it right.

    Back atcha

    Once again a straw man. I'm not counting on religion. I'm counting on the productivity and charity of the average American. Of course Liberals tend to not see this. They only want to give away others money.

    Our Founding Fathers created a unique economic system that rejected idiocy that had been tried over the centuries. Property rights, Freedom, and a limited government to protect that freedom. The result brought about enormous changes in industry, technology, medicine etc. that would be hard to imagine happening without the free market engine of the United States.

    Sounds good. Except the premise that Capitalism is not self regulating. May I suggest Thomas Sowells "Basic Economics" and "Economic Fallacies?"

    Well when Obama's plan is to reject the constitution and form a socialist state... it's time to attack that plan
    Bush and McCain aren't quite the same. Any decent rocket scientist can point out the differences for you. But I'm Libertarian and don't see the current Republican field as being anywhere near perfect. Obama however is far worse with more of what has hurt us in the past.

    Conservatives will always help out the truly needy. They are a charitable demographic. They know it is tough love to demand work for success.

    I quote because it makes sense. I believe in the economic foundation of this country. It encourages people to reach the level of success they may desire. And I know in such a country we will look out for the truly unfortunate.

    here's a couple more favorites. Though I don't always agree with Teddy....

    Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.
    Theodore Roosevelt

    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.
    Theodore Roosevelt
     
    jazzylee77, Oct 30, 2008 IP
    guerilla likes this.
  4. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

    Messages:
    1,257
    Likes Received:
    105
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #4
    LOL, this reminds me of what my mom used to tell me:

    "Spit in one hand and wish in the other. See which one fills up first."

    So you really want to rely on our government "because we pay taxes"? Are they really that efficient on using our tax money wisely? How much debt do we have right now? Didn't the government just take $700 billion of our tax dollars to bail out everyone else??

    I have no idea how old you are (I'm assuming in your 20s or 30s), but can you really sleep comfortably at night knowing that Medicare and Social Security is going to be there when we get old? Do you really want to rely on that? I sure as hell don't. I'm saving for retirement with the assumption that there is going to be NO government assistance when I'm older...

    And I agree with jazzylee77. Nowhere does it state in our Constitution that the government is going to provide or insure our well-being. It's not their job to "protect and help" you when you have financial problems. It's the government's job to protect the Constitution and YOUR freedoms so you have the groundwork to make YOUR own way, provide for yourself.

    And I personally believe that if we start treating the government like a parent, they'll start treating us like children. And we will start acting like children. "Gimme, gimme, gimme. Mine, mine, mine. I need, I need, I need...."
     
    Firegirl, Oct 30, 2008 IP
    guerilla likes this.
  5. yragcom1

    yragcom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    12
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    143
    #5
    yragcom1, Oct 30, 2008 IP
  6. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes Received:
    153
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    153
    #6
    AMEN

    I honestly couldn't have said it any better.
     
    ncz_nate, Oct 30, 2008 IP
  7. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

    Messages:
    5,696
    Likes Received:
    288
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    280
    #7
    You bring up some GREAT points. Let me address them.
    Hahaha that reminds me of people who pray to God, then nothing happens. :D

    It's a question of 2 philosophies firegirl.

    You see Republicans would tell you, hell let's just let the government off the hook then! They've screwed it up but let's not hold them accountable. No let's give it back to corporate America where the people in chareg are NOT elected officials and can't be held accountable for anything Yes!

    Even though the fact is that we pay taxes and this IS their responsibility. Them screwing it up is not a valid reason to just let them off the hook and say ok screw it we'll keep paying you taxes and fix it ourselves.

    Lest you forget, we tried "fixing it ourselves" for the past 8 years with tax cuts for big corps and deregulation. You know what big corps did to us? Let's list. Corporate scandals, fat cats taking your money and running. Enron ring a bell? No? How about gas prices. They skyrocketed. Still behind big corps? Still think they will shower you with jobs and prosperity?

    Well here's the final stick in your eye. Under the past 8 years companies took our tax cuts and incentives and sent jobs oversees in record numbers. Try calling for tech support and NOT getting an Indian customer service rep.

    India is RAPIDLY overtaking us in the technology sector. CHina just flat out beats us by sheer numbers.

    I'm 33.

    I have the same concerns you do about social security and medicare only not for myself as I do pretty well for myself online. But what I think I'm hearing you say is instead of electing officials (smart officials not moron cowboys (Bush) or barely passed the naval academy (McCain) officials) that can figure out a way to fix this, you'd rather do what? Put all your money in investments? Have you seen the stock market lately? How about that bank of yours. Hope it wasn't one of the ones that went under :eek:

    My point is you keep putting money in a 401k or some type of hybrid savings and investments portfolio and that's GREAT. But when some corporate fat cat steals your money and runs... who are you gonna cry to? The government? Oops, nope, you elected Republicans who believe in small government and deregulation. They are powerless and have no specific laws to protect you.

    So your choice is keep paying the government taxes to do what? Nothing? Wild wild west every man for him or her self? That might have worked at the dawn of our nation but now.... in this global economy, NATIONS are banding together against us and using their numbers and collective vision to defeat us by working together. We need a STRONG government not a weak one. Not in these times.

    We need GOOD relationships with other nations. Not what we have now where we're seen as the big bully in the playground. The cowboy go it alone way just . doesn't . work.

    How about we FIX social security and medicare? You know part of our problem is with our 2 party government half of the government is trying to fix SS and medicare and half of it is trying to get rid of it and or make it privatized. Which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You want to put our nations future in the hands of non-elected officials to whom we cannot hold accountable? Have we not learned ANYTHING from this economic crisis?

    You're right... let's remove ALL government programs and functions except for the Department of Defense. i mean... if they're not in the constitution then hell, let's get rid of em! :rolleyes:

    The global economy will leave us behind, our numbers of poor and jobless will go through the roof, we'll have the same type of starvation and famine we cringe at on TV when we see if in third world countries.

    But hey, we'll be able to blow some shit up! :D
     
    GeorgeB., Oct 30, 2008 IP
  8. damian.hoffman

    damian.hoffman Peon

    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    11
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #8
    Ooooohhhhh, so worth it if we get to blow shit up.
     
    damian.hoffman, Oct 30, 2008 IP
  9. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

    Messages:
    1,257
    Likes Received:
    105
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #9
    I'm so glad that someone still has faith that our taxes are actually being used for what they should be. Don't you people ever watch/listen to Congress when they are in session? Oh, I already know the answer to that: it's NO. Because if you did, you would know what the government is doing with out money and wouldn't want to rely on the government for everything.

    It's wonderful to listen to Senators and Representatives argue about if it should be National Garbage Month when we are on the verge of our entire financial system collapsing!

    So are you saying it's better to get f*cked by an elected official than a corporation? Because, really, you could get screwed either way. There's just one difference: choice. I have more choice and control when private companies are involved....

    I must be living in a different country. We are holding our elected officials accountable for their actions now? When did that happen? Seems like they have an easier time getting away with breaking the laws than anyone else in our country does....

    So yes, I would much rather be in control of who I hire to handle my money and my health. If the system is privatized and companies are competing for your business, don't you think that the ones who rob, steal, and are dishonest in general will be put out of business? I can't go to the government and tell them "you are doing a horrible job of managing my money. I'm taking it somewhere else!" I don't have that option.

    And yes, we can vote these officials out of office, but that also makes me put faith in people I don't even know or will ever meet. I have to rely on people like you, my coworkers, and random people I walk by on the street to vote wisely. And with this election, that faith has severely been shaken. People are more concerned these days about who is going to win "Dancing
    with the Stars" than researching the Presidential Candidates. Yikes!

    And you are absolutely right when you state that part of the problem is with our 2 party government. These 2 parties get so wrapped up in trying to agrue and prove the other wrong at ANY cost, they completely forget their true purpose: to serve the American public.
     
    Firegirl, Oct 30, 2008 IP
  10. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

    Messages:
    5,696
    Likes Received:
    288
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    280
    #10
    You're right I don't watch C-Span.

    It's definitely screwed up. So what are we going to do about it? Use our vote to choose more of the same?

    Why yes, yes I am. That's not a difference. We have a choice on both sides of that equation. Are you a registered voter?

    You don't?
    The 2006 elections where a huge swath of Republicans lost their job.

    Can't argue with ya there. But when they break the law they don't get multi-million dollar Golden Parachutes as a reward. When they break the law they get voted out of office.

    Yes, fannie and mack lost it all. But who really lost there? And I don't mean the tax payers with the bailout. I mean the people who lost their homes.

    Do you think the CEO's of those corporations are suffering right now? How much does them being "put out of business" effect them?

    The problem with corporations is they don't have to tell you they mis-managed your money until AFTER they lose it or steal it. You as an avid C-Span watcher should know that it's much more transparent on the government side by law.

    Getting invited to meet the president of large corporations these days eh? Good for you!

    Actually, people are more concerned about the economy and the issues than Bill Ayers. Hence the state of the race today. That old dancing with the stars or american idol argument has some merit but the past couple of debates' viewership blows those out of the water.

    I thought it was only to defend.
     
    GeorgeB., Oct 30, 2008 IP