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The Backlink BS

Discussion in 'Search Engine Optimization' started by tsptom, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. #1
    When will Google and other major SE's catch on to the backlink BS going on? Maybe they have, I don't know.

    I can understand backlinks being a good indicator of site importance, but with all the bogus directory sites, paying for backlinks, backlink exchanges and three-ways, it's all BS. I hate seeing crappy sites rank higher than a site that is obviously higher quality and has higher traffic, but didn't play the backlink game, so they are lower in SERP and rank.

    OK, I'm a bit frustrated for seeing my main site sit at a PR 4 for 3 years when the site has grown 100 X since it began. My SERP is OK, but I feel if I want to move it to the top I have to play "the game".
    SEMrush
    Where are the SE's on this issue?
     
    tsptom, Mar 23, 2007 IP
    gemini181 likes this.
    SEMrush
  2. tunedtv

    tunedtv Peon

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    #2
    If you want to get ahead that is certainly not the attitude to have. People see an opportunity to make money they will take it. And if it's not this back link "BS", it will be something else. Plain and simple.
     
    tunedtv, Mar 23, 2007 IP
  3. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Probably right - bad attitude. But one day I hope quality sites will matter most. I'm pretty sure I make more google adsense $$ than 95% of the members here (not bragging, assumption based on posts I read here) and it had nothing to do with backlinks. But as far as PR goes... I am beat by some pretty weak sites - probably because of backlinks. I wish I had time to work on it, but I'm busy writing content most of the time.
     
    tsptom, Mar 23, 2007 IP
  4. Laceygirl

    Laceygirl Notable Member

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    #4
    Why would you be bothered by others using this kind of tactic to get ahead if you are the top dog money maker?

    I wouldn't worry about it. If you got enough money to swim in, then why be upset that others are trying to get their own pool too?
     
    Laceygirl, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  5. Tabby

    Tabby Peon

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    #5
    Who spends money on a site? Those that want to grow it and if they invest, be it time or money shouldn't they reap the rewards?
     
    Tabby, Mar 24, 2007 IP
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  6. jl255

    jl255 Well-Known Member

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    #6
    tsptom, you are right. This is not a perfect world, and any system, no matter how good, is prone to abuse. Look at exams, it is supposed to encourage students to learn the subject matter. But what happens? Students start learning the exam questions instead, with all the past yr's exam papers ,etc.

    You are right that eventually, a new system may be invented to prevent all these backlink BS, but nobody knows when and whether it will happen. So the best bet is to do what you think is best while playing this BS game and maintaining a good comfortable balance between the two. In this imperfect world, sometimes you are the only who stands to lose if you do not work with the system (back to the exam example). That's life....
     
    jl255, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  7. gemini181

    gemini181 Well-Known Member

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    #7
    IMO, today's giant search engines are overwhelmed by:
    • The results of mistakes made very early on (pre-2000), and...
    • ...near the 'mania peak' of Web 1.0 (Spring of 2000).

    Back then, everybody was in a huge rush to 'make Big Bucks'

    Today many people and companies are:

    • ...still in a huge rush to make Big Bucks!!!

    Q) Ten years ago, were 'the big boys' more concerned about building something with long-lasting value and utility, or cashing in big-time on the promise of huge stock market profits?

    A) The massive 'Web 1.0' mania bubble not only wiped out many investors, but the really big winners (today's web giants) have serious problems with their long-term ability to set up, and maintain, a 'fair game'
    1. Profits are a great motivation.
    2. Long-term profits from very useful products are an even better goal.

    Which current giants are founded upon, and still based on the second option???
     
    gemini181, Mar 24, 2007 IP
    tsptom likes this.
  8. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #8
    One reason is that for my main keyword, I float between position 8 and 10 on google. Because of that I spend a lot of money with adwords (and overture)to bring the traffic. If I was in the top 3 I feel I could probably save about $1000+ a month. Backlinks might help that position but again, why should I have to do that? I understand I may have to, but it won't make my site any more important in reality. Just in some formula.
     
    tsptom, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  9. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Good point.


    And thanks gemini.
     
    tsptom, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  10. kh7

    kh7 Peon

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    #10
    Well, sounds like you have the choice to spend money on adwords or on backlinks. I mean, if you are spending 1000+ per month on adwords, you can afford to buy links from yahoo and other quality directories as well. From a business perspective it's just a matter of: how can you best spend your money. If I were you I would put at least 30% of your marketing budget towards buying (quality) links - that 30% may include the money needed to hire someone to get you those links. After all, buying links are a long term investment. Advertising with adwords is merely a short term deal.
     
    kh7, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  11. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #11
    I'm not looking for a solution per se, as I understand the problem. The reason I like adsense is that I'm guaranteed that I only pay when someone clicks. I don't get that guarantee with backlinks. My point is that playing the backlink game is just that, a game. Those links may or may not get people my site. They only add to some formula that helps SERP. When, to a phase someone above used, in a perfect world, SERP should be based on the quality of the site.


    I appreciate your input. I'm not looking for an either or situation. I just want to know if SE's are looking to change their ranking formula to take out the backlinks which are so very useless (for determining rank) when they are paid for or put in a signature, etc.. A real backlink is one where someone puts up your link because they like your site and want to share it with others.
     
    tsptom, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  12. kh7

    kh7 Peon

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    #12
    Google and other search engines do try to filter out paid and spam links. BUT the big question is, how can they? Google for instance has gone on record as saying (via Matt Cutts) that the ability of a site to 'pass rank' can and will be compromised if they are caught selling links. This is one of the reasons why people on forums such as DP will tell you to get links from 'related sites' - those links look less bought and are therefore more likely to be actually counted.

    The underlying problem is that it is very difficult for anybody to judge quality when they see it. Popularity is one way that quality has always been judged by people, and certainly in the west where democracy has ruled for over a century now. Since popularity is obviously influenced by the media, by popular institutions (or people) themselves, any system based on that is going to get into trouble once it's large enough to make it hard to oversee. We all simplify our world by just looking at stuff that others have recommended to us. This is why the rich get richer.
    Not sure I'm being very clear here. The point is: any system will be misused. Google cannot manually judge each page for relevancy and links are a fairly decent metric - as long as they try as hard as they can to filter out 'non-editorial' links - and that is exactly what google tries. Unfortunately the line between an editorial link and a bought link is sometimes rather thin. For instance a link bought in the yahoo directory is also an editorial link: they do not guarantee placement.
     
    kh7, Mar 24, 2007 IP
    tsptom likes this.
  13. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #13
    That's all we could ask for I guess. Thanks again for your input.
     
    tsptom, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  14. MarcRoman

    MarcRoman Peon

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    #14
    It just seems to me like you're trying to cut off your nose to spite your face. Or however that phrase goes.

    The fact is that Google likes inbound links, you could hire someone to promote your site and to get you incoming links, and instead of the $1,000 a month you're spending to get immediate traffic, you could instead spend that $1k a month for just a few months, and vault your way up to the top permanently(or semi anyway). And then stop most of your PPC campaigns. If you're in the top 3, you're more likely to be clicked on than a PPC campaign anyway.

    So, you can complain about the way the world works, or you can work within the bounds of it, to get what you want.

    If I were you, I'd spend at least some of that PPC money on Link generation. It will help you rise in the rankings, and eventually your ROI will be much better.

    HTH,

    MR
     
    MarcRoman, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  15. trafficnotice

    trafficnotice Peon

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    #15
    I really think the problem with search engines returning the most relevant results is in the queries and not so much their indexing algorithm. How can a search engine decide wha the most relevant page is when a user simply asks for "SEO"? Any website out there that has the word SEO is a relevant result. If the user asked something more specific then the engine could rank pages better. But having a computer correclty understand complete sentences is not possible at the moment so don't expect to see anything better than Google any time soon. In other words, links will be important for a long time still so learn how to play the game instead of complaining about it.

    PS: I rarely spend much time getting links to my sites; I let the backlinks grow organically over time. I just keep updating with more content.
     
    trafficnotice, Mar 24, 2007 IP
  16. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #16
    How does one improve something if we don't complain? Why use the internet to get information when an encylopedia still works? Heck, pop-ups and spam improve traffic, why not do that as well.? Because it isn't right. Jeez, I sound like a liberal. :D I know you are saying don't complain and play the game, but you have to admit it is not a great system.

    I have actually paid a handful of people on this site for a bunch of backlinks, I also use a service that I pay a monthly fee for. For what? I'm still a PR 4. My SERP may or may not be higher because of it, not sure, but I'd like to think that my content and massive increase in traffic had more to do with that.

    That is an option and would work for me. Do you have any recommendations for services? But again, like spam and pop-ups, it doesn't seem right. I guess I'll have to keep playing the game.
     
    tsptom, Mar 25, 2007 IP
  17. fatinfo guy

    fatinfo guy Peon

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    #17
    Building back links is not BS. If your site sucks, web masters will not link back to you. I believe the search engines realize the important human aspect of directories verse FFA sites. Just imagine how hard it is for illegitimate pharmacy sites to gain back links because webmasters hate listing them.

    If you are constantly building good content for your websites, then you can spare a couple of hours a week to link building as well. It is a simple and an effective overall strategy to get higher natural search rankings.
     
    fatinfo guy, Mar 25, 2007 IP
  18. tsptom

    tsptom Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Unless you pay them or link back to them. :rolleyes:
     
    tsptom, Mar 25, 2007 IP