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Template Monster...your opinion ?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by jsiegal, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. #1
    Hi Friends,

    I was looking at the 100's of Templates on TM and was wondering 'how difficult is it' to work with them? (they have some very nice templates to choose from).
    • I've read some bad reviews about their WordPress themes...but what about their HTML sites...has anyone tried successfully to use their HTML Templates?
    • Anyone have an opinion on their products?
    thanks very much!
    SEMrush
     
    jsiegal, Apr 8, 2020 IP
    SEMrush
  2. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #2
    Like most of the code provided by these template whorehouses -- and most anything to do with turdpress -- you won't get love but they'll get you off; sadly like it was the 19th century so be prepared to need a visit to the clinic after due to a nasty case of crotch-rot.

    Simply put, the vast majority of the "designs" on such websites are not design at all, they're art. Art made by artists under the DELUSION they know what design is. Design is NOT art unto and of itself, but engineering that incorporates art. Universally they lack semantic markup, graceful degradation for non-scripting, illegible colour contrasts, illegible fixed metric (pixel) font sizes, and broken attempts at being responsive.

    Those last three being the trifecta of /FAIL/ at web development. Every aspect of accessibility is non-existent flipping the bird at the disabled... something you REALLY don't want to do now that it's open season on businesses what with the Supreme Court here in the US refusing to hear the Domino's case.

    All these templates do is screw over whatever poor sod doesn't know enough about HTML or CSS to even make a rational choice on using them.

    Even the websites for these scammy artsy-fartsy con artists are an epic /FAIL/ at web design and development. Template monster itself uses px metric fonts that don't scale telling users like myself to go suck it, multiple sections of illegible colour contrasts, goofy hard to read thin-glyph webfonts, and that's before we talk about the train wreck of the 3i of web development -- ignorance, incompetence, and ineptitude -- that makes up their bloated, slow, idiotic codebases.

    Which is the other problem, most if not all of these templates placing art-{expletive omitted} BS ahead of every other concern also are coded by people who have not a lick of business writing HTML or CSS. Though the same can be said of turdpress' stock template! The people who created it have ZERO business writing HTML! Hence they'll often blow 200k or more of HTML on 10k or less plaintext and a dozen content images, not even 16 to 24k of HTML's flipping job!!!

    Again, even their own website is trash in that regard, so how can the content they're delivering be any better? The home page for Template Monster is 6.64k of plaintext (aka actual content) and five dozen content images. I'd ballpark that as needing around 24k of HTML, 32k at the maximum... so what the bloody blue blazes are they wasting 1.21 MEGABYTES of HTML on?!?

    <doc brown>GREAT SCOTT! 1.21 MEGABYTES!!!</doc>

    Pick any of the templates on that site and you'll find the same levels of 3i. Static style in the markup, static scripting in the markup, scripting only elements in the markup, onevent attributes, target, and clearing DIV like it's still 1998, mouth-breathing idiotic garbage monuments to 3i like bootcrap, presentational instead of semantic markup, static style in the markup, endless pointless classes for NOTHING with a complete lack of even TRYING to leverage semantics.

    Simply put, the vast majority of "off the shelf" templates are built by people who do not know enough about HTML, CSS, or actual design to flap their damned yap on the topic. They're either delusional of their own capabilities, or they are aware of it and are nothing more than outright snake oil peddlers.

    The whole CONCEPT of starting out with what a website looks like is back-assward. Content should dictate markup, content + markup + device needs should dictate layout. As such when you don't have the real content of a page or a reasonable facsimile as your starting point, the end result is almost universally trash. Hence why all these templates and the sites that serve them belong in the bin.

    But lemme tell ya' what I really think...
     
    deathshadow, Apr 9, 2020 IP
    sarahk likes this.
  3. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #3
    When...when I ask, are you finally going to come out of your shell? Why pussy foot around, why do you have to be so all fired diplomatic all the time?
     
    Spoiltdiva, Apr 9, 2020 IP
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  4. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #4
    You know how it is, like those ultra sweet figs from your back yard, he can't help but go all soft and mushy. Jason just doesn't get it, PC is so over. :rolleyes:

    g
     
    kk5st, Apr 9, 2020 IP
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  5. ketting00

    ketting00 Well-Known Member

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    #5
    I used them (HTML) on several projects I worked for my customers and they were all satisfied but you have to heavily modify some templates to suit your need. They are also good for learning new things that you even have no idea they are really existed. It's fun to be learning.

    They are beautiful on artistic standpoint but who doesn't love beauty => (the coders) { their definition of beauty is a dull page full of curly brackets }

    Tips: don't listen to negative opinions, at some point you are going to be blasted for ineptitude on something anyway.

    And use Javascript to include header, footer and sidebar as you would use PHP include function to save time on development.

    The internet as you know it isn't going to be collapsed right before your eyes because of you use those wrongly semantically markups. Just do it and learn it along the way.
     
    ketting00, Apr 9, 2020 IP
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  6. jsiegal

    jsiegal Member

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    #6
    Is there anyway to determine if any TEMPLATES are better than others?

    ~T
     
    jsiegal, Apr 20, 2020 IP
  7. seomanualsubmission

    seomanualsubmission Well-Known Member

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    #7
    What you are looking for? .. Think yourself and its best way to get theme accordingly. According to me, there are not any theme or template is 100% if you know a bit about coding. For me any templates need some modification for best fit according to need.
     
    seomanualsubmission, Apr 20, 2020 IP
  8. acw

    acw Well-Known Member

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    #8
    The Basic Message i'm getting is
    1. Templates are created by Designers
    2. ALL TEMPLATES need modification
    3. ITS A DREAM that you can work on them without knowing code.

    Am i correct?
     
    acw, Apr 20, 2020 IP
  9. ketting00

    ketting00 Well-Known Member

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    #9
    It depends... I've come across many AI-powered programs that can do front-end design like these examples: https://blog.prototypr.io/ai-powered-tools-for-web-designers-adc97530a7f0

    Many people are scrutinized about it but I believe in AI. Just wait and see... Some days these AI-powered software will be able do the front end design better than human coders. (Personally, I hates front-end design. It changes so much. Any times I get back to front-end from back-end it changes. Now that hamburgers menu is obsoleted. Dang I've just learned about it.)
     
    ketting00, Apr 22, 2020 IP
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  10. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #10
    Most of us don't have the skills to create beautiful designs so we're left deciding on ugly versus crotch-rot.

    I haven't been to a template site to get a template in years but I'd happily do so - mostly because I have the skills to "put a rubber on" and avoid the worst of it.

    What would be useful I guess is to have a checklist for those of us who need their (ahem) services
    • how to use inspect to see what a design looks like in mobile or on a phone
    • how to use inspect to see how bloated a design is
    • how to avoid the common gotchas - like if your heading isn't the exact length the whole design goes pearshaped
     
    sarahk, Apr 22, 2020 IP
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  11. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #11
    That's really the issue though, there's no reason you can't have both! Yet "designers" and some coders -- mostly designers -- act like the two are mutually exclusive. Whilst sure there's lots of goofy artsy-fartsy BS you shouldn't do on a page, that's no reason you can't still make it attractive in other ways. But NO, there's this myth -- usually parroted by people who are looking for just more lame excuses for their own half-assed attempts -- that you can't have one without the other... and that's just plain malarkey.

    A good idea at that.

    Big things I always suggest checking for is legible colour contrasts. This is pretty basic stuff too in that you should if you have working eyes recognize when color combinations are crap. White text on cyan or really really ligtht blue, yellow and white together, blue and red... It's not huffing rocket science.

    Especially when you can just plug the colours into a tool at it will tell you.

    https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/

    Though these days thanks to goofy webfonts (particularly useless "thin glyph" CRAP like railway) and font-smoothing technologies, 2.0 AAA "small" is basically the new minimum. Part of why the WCAG needs a huge overhaul.

    Checking for dynamic fonts helps too. Are they using EM top to bottom for fonts, widths, and queries? No? Well it's crap that needs a rewrite.

    ... and yeah, testing how it handles responsiveness is a must.

    But back to the two not being mutually exclusive, let's just go to TM, and pop open the first template it tries to feed me:
    https://www.templatemonster.com/intense-multipurpose-html-template.html

    Going to the live demo
    https://livedemo00.template-help.com/intense/v2/

    It's the typical wreck of coding and accessibility ineptitude... It has this goofy broken "loader", takes around 20 seconds to load, etc, etc.

    But overall it's just your standard "eye canz has bootcrap" style layout -- even though it does NOT appear to be written in bootstrap. It's got that same lazy "massive splash area at the top with a complete lack of content of value or even a place for it", multiple sections of illegible colour contrasts (like that white on green buttons, the entire footer), use of REM so it's hard to scale the WHOLE layout and is broken in FF and Edge for large font users, mobile menu that's nearly useless for fist-in-the-face sized text and oddball "scroll in from the side" behavior, etc, etc...

    Would fixing those visual issues REALLY compromise the overall art of it? I mean just text-shadow the buttons, convert it to EM instead of REM, fix the contrast issues in the footer, maybe change the menu to a full on modal. Done.

    But the code, for this "#1" template? Who made these assclowns developers? Endless pointless DIV for nothing, endless pointless classes for nothing, goofy lazy loading and slide-in animooted BS for nothing,

    I mean just take this snippet:

         <div class="page">
          <!--RD Navbar-->
          <header class="section rd-navbar-wrap" data-preset='{"title":"Navbar Default","category":"header","reload":true,"id":"navbar-default"}'>
            <nav class="rd-navbar">
              <div class="navbar-container">
                <div class="navbar-cell">
                  <div class="navbar-panel">
                    <button class="navbar-switch int-hamburger novi-icon" data-multi-switch='{"targets":".rd-navbar","scope":".rd-navbar","isolate":"[data-multi-switch]"}'></button>
                    <div class="navbar-logo"><a class="navbar-logo-link" href="index.html"><img class="navbar-logo-default" src="images/logo-default-114x27.svg" alt="Intense" width="114" height="27"/><img class="navbar-logo-inverse" src="images/logo-inverse-114x27.svg" alt="Intense" width="114" height="27"/></a></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div class="navbar-cell navbar-spacer"></div>
                <div class="navbar-cell navbar-sidebar">
                  <ul class="navbar-navigation rd-navbar-nav">
                    <li class="navbar-navigation-root-item active"><a class="navbar-navigation-root-link" href="index.html">Home</a>
                      <div class="navbar-navigation-megamenu rd-navbar-megamenu">
                        <div class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-container">
                          <div class="navbar-navigation-back">
                            <button class="navbar-navigation-back-btn">Back</button>
                          </div>
                          <div class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-row">
                            <ul class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-column">
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-heading">Home Types</li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="index.html">Default</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-consulting.html">Consulting</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-business.html">Business</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-studio.html">Studio</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-application.html">Application</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-event.html">Event</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-blog.html">Blog</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-store.html">Store</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-minimal.html">Minimal</a>
                              </li>
                              <li class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-item"><a class="navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" href="home-portfolio.html">Portfolio</a>
                              </li>
                            </ul>
    Code (markup):
    Proof positive these clowns have NO business writing websites since there is NOTHING being done there to actually warrant a heck of a lot more code than:

    
    <header id="top">
    	<input type="checkbox" id="toggle_mainMenu" class="toggle" hidden>
    	<label for="toggle_mainMenu"></label>
    	<h1><a href="/">intense</a></h1>
    	<nav>
    		<ul>
    			<li>
    				<a href="/">Home</a>
    				<div id="menu_home" class="modal">
    					<a href="#" class="closeModal"></a>
    					<section>
    						Home Types
    						<ul>
    							<li><a href="/">Default</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-consulting.html">Consulting</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-business.html">Business</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-studio.html">Studio</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-application.html">Application</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-event.html">Event</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-blog.html">Blog</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-store.html">Store</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-minimal.html">Minimal</a></li>
    							<li><a href="home-portfolio.html">Portfolio</a></li>
    						</ul>
    Code (markup):
    For the SAME functionality, if not better. (give or take 5% or so)... and that's with the HTML 5 derp; and likely axing the amount of JavaScript required to zero and used to enhance to around a quarter of a K... since they seem to be using JS to do CSS' flipping job!

    THAT'S what's so annoying about this trash. It's hard enough for those of us who know what we're doing to deal with the incompetent code set forth, without saddling a greenhorn with this nonsense.
     
    deathshadow, Apr 22, 2020 IP
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  12. jsiegal

    jsiegal Member

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    #12
    Awesome !

    HOW WERE you able to trim that down to 1 page of code?
     
    jsiegal, Apr 26, 2020 IP
  13. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #13
    Delete all the classes it doesn't need or use, fix the semantics, remove many of the "DIV for nothing".

    it would require and entirely different approach to the CSS, which WOULD end up being almost as much code as we removed over how it's doing things, but CSS can be cached across pages meaning not only are we more efficient on this one page, since this is the header / menu of all pages on a site using the template we also pre-cache the appearance of said subpages!

    More importantly said CSS could leverage :checked to do without JavaScript what their <button> tag required JavaScript to do.

    To break it down -- if anyone cares -- the rewrite:

    1) uses input+label as the hidden show/hide of the menu trigger for mobile.

    2) has THE (singular) heading (singular) of the SITE as THE (singular) H1 on the page. There should only be one H1, and in most cases it should be the site title. A logo is usually a presentational affectation of the site title, so if you're going to have one it goes in the CSS, NOT the markup for both accessibility and SEO reasons.

    3) if all the tags inside a parent container are getting the same flipping class, NONE OF THEM NEED CLASSES!!!. Especially not mentally enfeebled presentational classes like "w3-red" or pointlessly redundant idiotic halfwit BS classes like saying something is "navbar-navigation-megamenu-link" doing the job of "nav ul ul a" in the stylesheet. All that nonsensical rubbish about how selectors and combinators are "slow" and make things take longer to render? BULLCOOKIES!... or at least, not so much so that wasting all that bandwidth in both the HTML and CSS is going to be offset by it.

    It's often comedy how the people who claim this type of trash is "faster to write", "faster loading", and all the other idiocy they spew like a second rate orange cheeto, are the same people who see notihing wrong on blowing 64k of markup on 3k of plaintext and a dozen content images... and when you point out things like their classes they say "no, that's what makes it faster!". Right, tell me another one Josephine. You know, the same types of dipshits who put <style> and style="" into their markup?
     
    deathshadow, Apr 26, 2020 IP