The TeaParty Republicans in the House of Representatives are days from raising taxes on 160 million working Americans. Despite screaming about tax increases for the last year when it comes to raising taxes on the vast majority of every American; every doctor, nurse, cop, truck driver, programmer, retail worker, McDonald's worker, paralegal, fireman, salesperson, lawyer, worker at Walmarts, etc the TeaParty Republicans have spent a month wasting time and breath. http://weirdloadreboot.com/blog/201...o-raise-taxes-on-the-working-class-of-course/ What it ultimately comes down to is one and only one thing: The Hard Right and the TeaParty have one and only one constituency: The ultra wealthy...the 1% and the 0.1% of the super wealthy.... Who the TeaParty really supports are these two guys....and the money they use to live in luxury and bankroll the extreme right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNXLWm5FQ74
That's one way of presenting it. Or, you could present the honest choices in front of the House to an average voter and let them decide: Option 1: Pass the Senate bill as it is Extend the payroll tax cut for all salaried workers for 2 months, a value of $166 to a family earning $50k/year Institutes a permanent .1% fee on all FHA mortgages or mortgages underwritten by Fannie and Freddie (9 out of 10 mortgages), annual tax increase of $204 to a mortgage of $200,000 for the life of the loan. Option 2: Extend the tax break without paying for it, and let the debt explode by another 350billion a year Option 3: Extend the tax break, and pay for it by freezing government salaries(which are now nearly double those in the private sector for equivalent work), and by making other cuts to government spending Option 4: Let the temporary tax break end like it was scheduled to and live without the extra one time sum of $166. I ain't had me much edjumucation, but it would last time I checked, $166 < ($204* 30years). I wonder how many other Americans can do that basic math. Can you Earlpearl? Just another case of the Democrats robbing the poor.
It is the Senate plan or nothing now. Since those are the facts on the ground; House Republicans are going to come out of this as the ones who made a blunder. They could have taken this 2 month plan and then added to their gains on the pipeline. This is a foolish blunder they will come to regret.
Democracy at work, currently achieving absolutely nothing. 11% of the USA happy with their government. Maybe it's time for another country to step in and tell the US how to run their country.
Yep. The Senate says, my way or the highway to it's coequal partner, the house of representatives, and takes off for a month of taxpayer funded vacation. Looking at the general reaction, Earlpearl (and you) are probably on target in saying that this issue will weigh heavier against the Republicans than it will the Democrats with the weak minded voting population. Pelosi doubled down on that bet last night by stating she would block conference committee from the house side on this issue. She clearly feels it is in their political interest to let this thing end how it is right now, with now extension to the tax cut. From my perspective, the death of this bill is a good thing but the culpability for the political problem its failure creates lies squarely with Mitch McConnell. His support for Harry Reid's tactics give me the impression he is a moron. His support gave the appearance that he is with the Democrats in calling house Republicans obstructionist. Perhaps he should have consulted the House leadership before making such a commitment, no less leaving town to try and force the House's hand. Of course this is the same Mitch McConnell that handed the Democrats a political gem when he said "Our goal is to make President Obama a one term President". The same Mitch McConnell who proposed increasing the debt ceiling without pushing for Washington spending cuts. This dolt even went so far as to propose giving Obama new power for automatic debt limit increase, without congressional vote. He comes up for re-election in 2014, and I'm guessing a primary challenge may be building for this retard.
O_Nation: One should pay for retaining the tax break for the working and middle class. The last resort should be to charge other members of the working and middle class by increasing charges on mortgage insurance (which the private market place is essentially refusing to provide. Various alternatives: Tax the wealthiest of the wealthy. The Koch brothers increased their net worth from roughly $7 billion to over $40 billion in the 2000's. Meanwhile a working American is struggling to meet daily living costs. But here is the story that the Right Wing has effectively driven into the dark for decades. Change the world of government contracting:http://www.pogo.org/pogo-files/reports/contract-oversight/bad-business/co-gp-20110913.html The US government is now paying more government contractors to do its work than it has federal employees. Contractor businesses per one study bill the govt at rates equal to 1.8 times what federal employees make. The individual workers for the contractors don't make 1.8 times what a govt worker gets....the tiny few businesses and their executives live off the excess income and off fleecing of the American taxpayer. Take 3 million government contractors. Turn them into direct government employees. Keep the salaries the same for the 3 million workers. Stop paying the contractor businesses 1.5 to five times the salary rates of the people. You have suddenly saved the tax payers well in excess of $100 billion/year--not cut jobs....and fueled the cost of giving the vast majority of Americans a little tax break. Alternatively tax the Koch brothers and their friends. How did they increase their net worth during the 2000's by $40 billion when most Americans took a beating because of the recession?
And yet that is EXACTLY what your beloved Senate tax break does. If you are against taxing the poor to provide tax breaks to the poor, why did you start this thread? Seems you would have opened with a strong vote of support for the House Republicans for having the political will to stand up against bad legislation, instead of politicizing the whole thing to make it seem the House Republicans are just trying to block lower taxes for the middle class and the poor. What nonsense. Regarding your alternatives, they are wrong headed. Right now the Federal government spends 25% of GDP while collecting taxes at about 15% of GDP. When we were closer to a balanced budget, those numbers were 19% and 18%. In other words, we need to raise another 3% in revenue and cut 7% in expenses to get to "normal". You aren't going to achieve a 7% cut in spending by internalizing government contracts, assuming such an action would yield any cost savings at all(highly debatable). Look at the major recipients of government contracts. GE. Boeing. You really think the US govt. is going to do what they do? You really think they should? If you stem the tide of taxpayer dollars overpaid to government, you have to fix the overtly corrupt climate in Washington, where huge recipients of this money like GE manage to get away with paying nothing in federal taxes due to special breaks put in the tax legislation for them. In GE's case, many of those tax breaks come from "Green" initiatives put there by Democrats. Having Obama give that asshat Immelt the Chair position on his Economic Jobs Council is just icing on the cake. The whole thing has simply gotten too big and too corrupt to manage, be they Republicans or Democrats. They will not self police. The only way you are going to get a less corrupt and less wasteful government is to reduce the amount of money they control. Less to spend means less to waste. On this front, Ron Paul is probably the only credible candidate, no matter how much I hate his foreign policy.
Do not be sooooo Republican. Those are not my words. Don't try and twist the discussion. Congress had about 1 month to decide whether to increase taxes on 160 million working Americans or NOT. The teaparty house Republicans obviously want to increase taxes on the majority of Americans. Its simple. If they didn't want to do so there are endless alternatives...the worst of which is to put an expense on other working Americans through Fannie and Freddy Mortgage Insurance. Obviously Republicans don't give a rat's @ss about regular working Americans as they pushed the process into the only area that hits one group of working Americans to help another group. The teaparty is dedicated to preserving the wealth of a few tiny Americans and is pushing all politics to screw everyone else in the process. see above Just as the Occupy Wall Street groups have finally forced endless truths to surface about how American wealth is moving from the masses to the protected powerful few in an Aristocracy of Privilege that mirrors the very people we revolted against in the 1700's...so too should there be a revelation and discussion on how Contractors are ripping off American taxpayers to the tune of $100's of millions per year. I have deep experience with govt contracting spread over virtually 30 years. Its an incredible rip off. There could easily be an elimination of $100's of millions in taxpayer funds by ripping through that process....and the beauty would be it doesn't necessarily mean losing a single one of those jobs. All as I described above. It is startling to bandy the names of the big govt contractors around. Here is how the contracting business works. Tax payers spend $100's of billions of dollars supporting contractors. The contractors take relatively small amounts of that....call it millions....and put that back into lobbying Congress.....EVERY QUARTER...millions every quarter!!!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/21/top-defense-contractors-s_n_431542.html Because of the stubbornness of the Teaparty Republicans whose singular goal is to protect the wealth of the richest people in the US...working Americans earning $50,000/year will face a tax increase of $1,000 next year. Working Americans earning $30,000 will be hit with a $600 tax increase. The Koch brothers are meanwhile driving their net worth from $40 to 50 billion to 60 to 80 billion. Tax the Koch brothers. Help the rest of Americans have an opportunity to buy new shoes, pay for a new car, etc. If you stem the tide of taxpayer dollars overpaid to government, you have to fix the overtly corrupt climate in Washington, where huge recipients of this money like GE manage to get away with paying nothing in federal taxes due to special breaks put in the tax legislation for them. In GE's case, many of those tax breaks come from "Green" initiatives put there by Democrats. Having Obama give that asshat Immelt the Chair position on his Economic Jobs Council is just icing on the cake. The whole thing has simply gotten too big and too corrupt to manage, be they Republicans or Democrats. They will not self police. The only way you are going to get a less corrupt and less wasteful government is to reduce the amount of money they control. Less to spend means less to waste. On this front, Ron Paul is probably the only credible candidate, no matter how much I hate his foreign policy.[/QUOTE]
Earlpearl, its official. You are off your meds. In all that blather of partisan nonsense, I don't think you had a single legitimate fact to add to your argument. Even your claim of area specific knowledge regarding government contracts did nothing but further a point I had already made, except when I made the point, I mentioned specific names of companies like GE who are joined at the hip with the Obama regime. You seem like a bright enough guy, but when you start foaming at the mouth about the Koch Brothers, and how the Tea Party has the singular goal of protecting the rich, and how Occupy Wall Street are the great truth telling patriots, I don't know whether to laugh at you or feel sorry for you. You get so worked up you lose the ability to communicate intelligently. Its like you are speaking in tongues, in many ways not unlike watching a nghtly broadcast of Shultz, Maddow, or O'Donnel. Like most Americans, I can appreciate the entertainment value of such a spectacle, but you are going to need to start articulating a fact based argument if you want to sway some of the 30% of US voter opinions that don't mindlessly pull the lever for idiotic talking points. In that spirit, let me remind you of some of the facts I've already presented on this thread that you have completely failed to address. 1) The new permanent tax on FHA and Fannie and Freddie mortgages in the Payroll Tax Extension is an artifact of the Senate, not the "evil Teaparty House Republicans". 2) The evil government contractors you disparage are as entrenched, if not more, in the Democratic party and this presidency as they are with Republicans of any stripe. 3) The Senate never reached a settlement with the House on this tax extension, and is now being intransigent by refusing to return to bring this negotiation to closure. Get back on your meds, and address the facts. I won't waste my time debating nonsense like the merits of your boogeyman, the Koch brothers, vs the Republican boogeyman George Soros. Just mentioning such idiocy dumbs down any conversation.
Simple truth is that it will be the house republicans and more specifically their tea party wing that will bear the brunt of the anger for not getting a bill passed. They are really left with no good option. Either they capitulate which guts their "we stand up regardless of the politics" stand, or they allow the tax increase on millions of Americans because they refuse to agree to a short term solution until a longer one (that they don't even really support) can be agreed to. They added so many unrelated issues to their own initial bill that had nothing to do with the tax issue. Now they try to claim they just want a longer tax break when it was their other issues that forced a Senate compromise which made the deal shorter than the 12 months democrats actually want. When a 12 month plan comes up next year, the republicans are again going to look foolish trying to kill it or add unrealted issues after their recent bs of that being their main complaint with the current bill. Man they screwed the pooch on this one.
Again, I agree with you here, though opinions vary. Personally, I'm happy the bill didn't pass. I'll take long term lower taxes vis-a-vis Fannie/Freddie over short term stimulus anytime. I think you might be surprised at how many people agree with this way of thinking. It just makes financial sense. Factual as that may be, it only presents one side of the issue. The Senate loaded up their version of the bill (over 1000 pages) with all kinds of crap as well. The Senate also made the decision to pay for a temporary tax stimulus for the working class by creating new long term taxes for the working class. Lets also not forget that the senate comprimised with themselves, not with the house. Masturbating to the thought of someone, even if you are standing in front of that person when you do it, does not count as having "closed the deal". Coming to a compromise requires both houses of congress, not one. When you consider that the Tea Party Republicans were sent to congress to cut government spending, the only way any of them could pass this bill and be true to their charter would be to tack on some hefty cuts to the Federal government to pay for it, which is exactly what they did, and exactly what the Senate changed out and replaced with new taxes.
When I first read about a 2 month extension I was thinking what they hell are they doing. It just makes no sense. But the fact that it at least kicked the can down the road and left the rest of the year for after Jan now looks like the prudent vote. The whole thing is messed up. The republicans actually won that first round with the Senate version. The problem, as you note, is that it didn't pass muster with the tea party house members. The bill could have passed without them though and I think that is where Boehner really messed up. Basically he allowed their displeasure to keep nobody, the 89 Senators or the rest of the house from being able to vote to extend the taxes. His speakership is held together by those tea party members, but seems like he is casting his cards with the wrong lot. They will turn on him in a second and he seems bound to cater to their whims. When either party does that, and jeopardized any real middle ground they lose credibility with everyone except their hard core base.
This is the characterization being put forward by the House and Senate Democrats. The fact is, there was a vote put in front of the whole House and it went 229-193 to reject the senate bill and send it to conference for negotiation. I have a very hard time reconciling a 229-193 vote to reject the bill with the idea that Boehner and a few fringe elements of the house are holding the entire country hostage. Perhaps you can explain it for me. Another characterization you brought up is that of the Tea Party being a the fringe hard right of the house. I'll grant you there is some bible thumping overlap, maybe even a large overlap between the hard right and the Tea Party, but if you think the Tea Party agenda of smaller, more fiscally responsibile and accountable Government has become less popular or populist in the 11 months since they took office, I'd be happy to take that bet. In fact, I'd be willing to go a step further and predict that agenda will dominate the 2012 election cycle as well. In other words, Boehner isn't catering to some fringe element. He is acting like a politician and doing what is necessary for the continuance of his career. Mitch McConnell, on the other hand, has seen his day.
The vote was not an up or down on the Sentate version. It was a House motion to formally disagree with the senate. The vote, no matter how it was voted, could not have passed the Senate version. I think you know that. It was to formally disagree and sent it to conference or not. There was no possibility for the bill to be passed with the bill that was put forward. It was a way to have a "yes" affirmative type vote but even a "no" vote was not to pass the Senate version. As far as the tea party being a "fringe" all I meant was that they, in essence are dictating the entire house policy and republican policy from a minority position. How many tea party house members are there? I think ~90. They are a minority even in the republic side right? I am not sure what to call that. By fringe, I just meant that they were a minority block of their own party. If it made political sense to use them is some fights then I might understand it, but it seems to actually cause most republicans concern in this case. This is where I think Boehner has failed. He should selectively use them when he needs to and to his advantage. He could have passed this bill without them, they get to vote their conscience and everyone sort of wins. I don't see how this plays well for anyone but those tea party members who stood their ground. They did what they said they would, but everyone else looks bad. I think in close races this will not help the average republican. Time will tell.
In other words, a "cover your ass" vote so nobody had to vote against a tax cut. Ain't politics grand? Sure, they are a minority, but as I mentioned earlier, their principals are the core principals the Republican party has always claimed they stood for. Most of the big government Republicans are in hiding after 2010. They may not be Tea Party, but they don't want to get voted out in a primary challenge. New York's 23rd district may have lost the Republicans a congressional seat but it was valuable in the message it sent. It was a dead fish wrapped in Luca Brasi's bullet proof vest, and the Republican party got the message. Perhaps. This whole temporary "tax cut" is nothing but another stimulus, done Republican style(Tax cuts instead of rebates). The whole thing stinks. In my opinion the guy who looks the worst is Obama, for dividing instead of leading once again. The whole friggin thing is a political ploy meant to be fodder for his 2012 re-election campaign. I'm sure every pundit in the country will be explaining who is to blame for some time to come, including Earlpearl, yourself, and I. Most people aren't even listening. I watch CSPAN in the mornings and it's stunning to see people mindlessly repeating party slurs. The Dirty Democrats are bad, the Evil Republicans are ruining the country. 38%-45% are going to vote Democrat no matter what, 38%-45% are going to vote Republcan no matter what. The other 10-30% will probably make an uninformed choice based on some idiotic ad they saw, or based on who did a better job of demonization. Seems the only real game in town is trying to depress the opposition's voter turn out.
If only Ron Paul would play politics (aka learn to say the right things on foreign policy) then he would win huge votes from all sectors. He'd still be hated by the 'establishment' on both sides, but might have a chance with the people. Everyone is sick of the bullshit that comes from the other side and their own side. Frankly, as much as I think Ron Paul would be slightly dangerous to the defense of our country, I think when needed the Congress could override his vetoes on defense issues. It would certainly make for an interesting couple years if he won.
I have to agree. I think he's got a very good shot at winning Iowa. The establishment can smell it coming and they are scared shitless. Mainstream media, same story. I find it hard to believe he can be worse for this country than a half term jr. Senator from Illinois made president. Can he win a general election? Hes pretty extreme.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204552304577114394185169820.html Enough angry Americans plus the common sense of well known commentators forced the Radical TeaParty extremists to cave in on still one more outrageous effort to hurt average Americans. A tax break for working Americans plus unemployment benefits are being temporarily extended. The so called leaders in Congress all say they want a one year extension...but the radical teaparty forced a less than ideal compromise...a 2 month extension on SS tax break. We will see what happens going forward.