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Teach me about Islam.

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by WebdevHowto, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #21
    If you don't "hate on" then why do you make up stuff about the Bible like you just did? (Well, maybe you didn't make it up but someone told you that and so you believed them.)

    Please give an example or since you said mostly - give examples.
    SEMrush
     
    debunked, Aug 3, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Freelance GD

    Freelance GD Well-Known Member

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    #22
    Open a new thread for it and let it thread for the purpose it was opened. We will catch ya there.

    As I have seen you are not satisfied from earlier explanation of your stupid post.
     
    Freelance GD, Aug 3, 2007 IP
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  3. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #23
    See answers above after your responses. If I am wrong, then why are their almost daily examples of these things?
     
    debunked, Aug 3, 2007 IP
  4. bccruzer

    bccruzer Peon

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    #24
    First, compliments on your quick reply
    Second, its common practice to put a note showing that emphasis was added when you underline something in the quote

    Here you go, darling.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I#Constantine_and_Christianity

    To paraphrase, the first council of Nicea threw out Jesus(PBUH)'s practice of belving in one god, and created the Trinity. It also created the Bible.
    If Jesus wasn't there, how can you say it was his words? I'm interested to find out.

    And to your second post debunked, there are fundamentalists in every religion.
    Surely every white supremacist and Neo-nazi is not a representative of Christianity. I would rather like to think of the paradign of Christianity as former pope John Paul, who immediately preceded Ratzinger. He was a pious man, definitely. I hope that he goes to paradise.
     
    bccruzer, Aug 3, 2007 IP
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  5. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #25
    Just answering the second half, cause I am too tired to go read what your did right now.

    The neo-nazis and the kkk have no links to the Bible. It is like saying a muslim is a christian, and I think muslims believe more of the Bible than any kkk member ever has. muslims and kkk both believe the Jews changed the Bible so it is bad..... bad I tell you, just bad, dem joows rewrote parts!

    Just in case you didn't understand - the kkk could not be fundamentalists, just like a muslim imam could not be a christian fundamentalist. Got it? good.....
     
    debunked, Aug 3, 2007 IP
  6. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #26
    Agreed. More and more, they seem to be teaming up with islam. Hatred of Jews is a common goal.

    Oddly enough, those that pretend to be "outraged" by ill-perceived kkk/christian connections are typically silent when they learn the truth about the islam connections. Selective moral outrage is always entertaining :)
     
    GTech, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  7. PalSys

    PalSys palsys.io

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    #27
    Whether or not there are connections to Islam (I really have no idea) with these groups, we are all well-aware that many of them, including the Ku Klux Klan, originated due to a combination of racism and Christian belief.
     
    PalSys, Aug 4, 2007 IP
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  8. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #28
    You may believe you are aware, but in reality, you just overlooked the connections you claim you have no idea about.

    I find that rather illuminating ;)
     
    GTech, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  9. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Its a shame that there is so much ignorance about both islam and christianity on this forum , and both sides try to spin words around to suit their own beliefs. How about we all come together in the parts of our beliefs that are matching? Instead of this childish bickering
     
    pingpong123, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  10. bccruzer

    bccruzer Peon

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    #30
    Sorry, but I generally thought that if you were a christian, you had more ties to christianity than islam. apparently I am mistaken.
     
    bccruzer, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  11. mok123

    mok123 Peon

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    #31
    Hi to all,
    As i am in a webmasters forum i can say this,
    Islam is the latest stable release of all the religions and you are welcomed to upgrade.
    Unfortunatly the realty is so different
     
    mok123, Aug 4, 2007 IP
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  12. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #32
    We know that David Duke attended the holocaust denial in Iran. I don't recall him attending a Pat Robertson event.

    Speaking of neo-nazi's and islam.
     
    GTech, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  13. ly2

    ly2 Peon

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    #33
    Actually, I do.
    Here are some of my other book marks:
    http://www.anti-cair-net.org/
    http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_evil/daily_news_and_analysis/index.html
    http://www.ropma.net/
    http://www.islam-watch.org/index.html
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/


    AKA: Truth is no fun, don't bring it into this thread.


    I don't remember asking if I was welcome in this thread, don't think I did. Anyhow, it's good to get the truth to this person at the same time you get your poison to him. This way he can make a rational decision.
     
    ly2, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  14. WebdevHowto

    WebdevHowto Peon

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    #34
    For those Muslim's that shared some information on Islam thank you for your posts. I have been busy the last couple days and didn't have a chance to reply. I will take a look at what you presented, but I will probably stop short of reading the Koran cover to cover. ;) At least until I get more free time.

    I was hoping to see the Muslim perspective of Islam from different Muslims. Unfortunately, I don't think that is possible given how quickly this thread was taken off topic. If I have any more questions, maybe it is better if I just send a PM.

    Thanks Again
     
    WebdevHowto, Aug 4, 2007 IP
  15. gemrocker

    gemrocker Active Member

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    #35
    I dont really believe any muslim can teach real islam to non-muslim. Bcoz most muslims follow only part of the religion and ignore the rest. Even islamic countries hav rules that is against islam. When a muslim does something people think its islamic law to do it. But its not so.

    So I would suggest reading quran & hadiths only.
     
    gemrocker, Aug 5, 2007 IP
  16. WebdevHowto

    WebdevHowto Peon

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    #36
    I don't know what "real Islam" is. That is what I was hoping to learn a little bit about from those that are currently practicing the religion. I can read the Koran, and hopefully at some point I will find the time to do so, but my understanding of it is not going to be the same as a practicing Muslim.

    I was raised in a "Christian" family and although I am more or less agnostic at this point my world view has been shaped to some extent by my "Christian" upbringing. So even if I read the Koran, I won't understand Islam the way a Muslim who was raised in a Muslim family understands Islam. I can try and teach myself about Islam by reading the Koran, but that would only be Islam from my perspective. I would be remiss not to take into account the views of those that have been raised within the religion.
     
    WebdevHowto, Aug 5, 2007 IP
  17. Idiot Inside

    Idiot Inside Well-Known Member

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    #37

    I'd not normally address to a hater like you, but sometime its indeed. I welcome any type of criticism, but in civilized and educated manner. Some of us seems to forget all our education and manners when it comes to debating on sensitive topics. Well, its all off topic. Let me answer your post made here.
    I hope you will stop misguiding the people using these verses, afterwards.

    One of the verse you have mentioned is from Surah At-Tawbah. It says what means:

    *{Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, [even if they are] of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.}* (At-Tawbah 9:29)

    To truly grasp the significance of these verses, we need to understand a couple of things about the Qur’an: First, it is the collection of verses revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) in the different contexts of his life. Often, the revelation came when the Prophet actually needed divine guidance concerning a specific situation. The above verse among others, is an example of this. For this reason, knowledge of the context of revelation is absolutely necessary for the proper understanding of any verse in the Qur’an.

    Surat At-Tawbah was revealed to the Prophet in a situation when the pagans were at war with the newly organized Muslim Ummah (nation); and the Muslims were fighting them for survival. One of the issues dealt with in this verse is how to treat those who break existing treaties and the Muslims, specifically, are asked to fight those who break treaties, until they were thoroughly routed or they repented and agreed to follow the conditions imposed on them, which will ultimately be for the good of all.

    Jizyah is a much misunderstood tax the non-Muslims were asked to pay to the government in lieu of the Muslims’ payment of zakah. By paying the jizyah non-Muslims were guaranteed protection and rights including the right to worship as they chose, as long as they did not conspire against the Islamic authority. This can be equated nowadays to ‘nationality’ or ‘citizenship’. It is important to note that many times throughout Islamic history Christians and Jews opted to pay the jizyah and live under Muslim authority rather than the other options available to them under the various empires and ruling bodies. They knew that under Islam their humanity, rights and so on were respected and protected as long as they fell in line with the boundaries established by Islam.

    Under an Islamic government, Muslim and non-Muslim citizens are free to practice their religion
    and both should obey the laws of the land. If the government levied a tax only on its Muslim subjects, it would be unjust, as all are equal under the government. At the same time, it would certainly be unjust to impose zakah on the non-Muslims; so a new tax called jizyah was introduced to balance the situation. All of us know that any government can legitimately ask its citizens to obey its laws; and a rebellious defiance of the laws of the land is not condoned by any government.

    We should remember that the Muslims were a small band of people facing total annihilation, so the Prophet was compelled to fight for existence; for survival. He was a model for his followers even in fighting a last-ditch battle. Those who believe in “the Son of God who was betrayed, bound, beaten, and crucified” obviously have difficulty in accepting a fighting prophet, who, with righteous indignation, stands up for truth and justice. Islam does not believe in a God Who was tortured, killed and left helpless to be defeated by his enemies! Where is the mercy of God, when He demands the sacrifice of an innocent person to atone for the sins of others? Can He not choose to forgive mankind Himself without exacting retribution?

    Islam is a very practical religion that encompasses all aspects of human life then and now. Therefore, when the Muslims were organized for the first time into a community in those lawless times, there had to be laws governing matters of social organization, and even rules for battle. We cannot imagine a situation where fighting is completely ruled out either. Let us examine the verse in question with the foregoing in mind. The immediate context of the above verse is that of a “war in progress” and not a general directive. It was an attempt to motivate Muslims to defend themselves. It was in view of the extreme danger the Muslims were facing, that they were permitted to fight in the first place. The Qur’an says what means:

    *{To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight], because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;- [They are] those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- [for no cause] except that they say, "our Lord is Allah”. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his [cause];- for verily Allah is Full of strength, Exalted in might, [Able to enforce His will].}* (Al-Hajj 22:39-40)

    *{Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter…}* (Al-Baqarah 2:190-191)


    It is clear from the above verses that when Muslims fight, it must be for truth and justice. Furthermore, the Prophet (peace be upon him) instructed his followers to maintain the utmost discipline even in battles, including avoiding injury to the innocent and using only the minimum force needed.

    Even a cursory study of the Qur'an must convince an objective student, that Islam does not permit, condone or promote violence. On the contrary, it abhors violence and allows it only in self-defense, and certainly not to obtain oil and other forms of material wealth. Those who blame the Qur’an for permitting the Muslims to fight can turn the pages of the Bible and see how Joshua at Jehovah's command: “left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded” (Joshua 10:40).


    And once again, If someone have anyone have serious question about Islam .. try asking here http://www.readingislam.com/
     
    Idiot Inside, Aug 5, 2007 IP
  18. astire

    astire Peon

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    #38
    I hope some will see the truth.....Great post
     
    astire, Aug 5, 2007 IP
  19. M Nabil

    M Nabil Peon

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    #39
    M Nabil, Aug 5, 2007 IP
  20. gemrocker

    gemrocker Active Member

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    #40
    Yes. You are right. Its unfortunate that muslims today are failing teach islam to people who want to know.
     
    gemrocker, Aug 5, 2007 IP