The issue with flat tax is double taxation. The thought is that lower income brackets have to spend more of thier income on items that have retail sales tax, thus in theory have a higher level of taxing proportional to income level. Higher income level have a larger level of discretionary income ( income not needed to support basic life functions), thus in theory will not be hit as hard by retail tax, thus should have income level taxes proportionaly higher. This is a a party divided line. The simple fact is that we spend more than than is available for taxing. You cant sqeeze blood from a rock to is may be the upper levels and business level taxing that may have to step up. The other option is that we can come in under budget.
So then you are trying to somehow attempt to make a case versus $10k years ago compared to $10k today, but use the bill being big because it 'was back then?' My point had nothing to do with we should tax the crap out of people, but in your case the point you made has no rational or truth to it when comparing $10k from years ago versus $10k today, making the point mute and actually making the cause we both would like to fight for look pretty damn silly.... Stick with facts, not embelishments, to me trying to compare $10 k years ago compared to $10 k today is a pretty silly statement. True, many peoples income goes down. Lastly while living with your wife did she have an income? That does need to be taken into the equation..... I actually agree with you on this one, especially on taxes of income.... Taxes however could be collected in a different manner, such as it already is in sales tax... You don't want to be taxed then don't buy non essential items, or continue to buy stuff you do not need. The rich would still pay the majority of the tax as they buy more goods,,,, I do wish there was a simple solution but there is not. Interesting and well thought out IMO I personally think there is a ton of pork that needs to be taken out of the government in many areas including social programs and yes even the 'military'.... Nobody like Uncle Sam to make a million dollars go as far as a well thought out plan could have made a 10th of that stretch.
You have to be kidding, anywhere I have lived you would have to live the gehtto, I doubt you would be real comfortable there. Apartments start at $800 a month if you want to live on the safe side of town, maybe wherever you live someone could live that sort of wages GW has help the middle class? How please elaborate? instead of just making blanket statements, the tax cut, is like what $1500 if you make like 50,000 or something like that, most of which is syphoned away from somewhere else, for something else.
According to fackcheck.org GW has not helped the middle class, unless you count shrinking it helping http://www.factcheck.org/article249.html Please MIA post some facts to show how you came up with your claims, instead of being a blathering tool
You get things you need, not things you want. It'd doable. The tax cut applied/applies to ALL in the middle class. Things like $1000 child tax credit come to mind, and boy did that come in handy. Under Clinton I paid more than half my salary to taxes. My father paid Clinton and Gores salary for 8 years! Thanx the Bush's tax cuts, I saw a return for the first time in 10 years! Look at the mess the economy was in in 2k. Now look at it. Inflation at an all time low, unemployment at an all time low, more home buyers than at an time in history, (first time home buyers that is), more minority first time home buyers than at any other time in history, I could go on, but I think we all know it to be true already.
My income and my tax returns are none of your business. I have seen tax relief! Under Clinton I never could have afforded a home. Thanks to GWB, I have one. I am living proof of the tax cuts. I'm not sure what you really need to be convinced. You've already made up your mind. Too bad your hatred of our President has clouded reality.
So who is going to tell me that I shouldn't move to the US in the near future, as Bush and the Republicans are going to make my life hell from a fiscal point of view? Should I wait for the Democrats to be in power? Any thoughts? Suggestions?
I don't want to know your income, I am talking about public stats Dude in order to get taxed 50% you have to be making millions If you are single you get taxed 35% if you make over $326,000 So wait you are making millions and now excited about a $1000 tax credit? So which is it, your whining about the poor rich people paying too much taxes, but then you seem to say you are just middle class. Which essentially means you are probably paying one of the lower precentages in income tax? like 15% But then you say you paid 50% in taxes? This is what I think, MIA you are a middle class guy who dreams of someday being rich and paying 50% income tax, since you are so brainwashed into the idea that rich people are repulbicans, you mindless support all things right wing because deep down psychlogically you think it is helping you become that rich guy you dream about being.
"Dude", your a forgetting about all tax combined. I'm not just talking about Federal Income tax. I am talking about federal, state, local, property taxes, personal property taxes, and sales tax. Let's not forget about the sin taxes I pay for fine liquor too! Factor all that in, and it's 50% or more of your income. Sorry man, I am not rich, er, a Democrat. That's correct, dude. So you now admit that rich people are not Republicans. Whine, whine, whine. Boo, hoo.... Can you get over the class envy and stop pretending that everything is so bleak? The fact is, under Bush the economy good news is: >Washington Post: Federal Deficit >Likely to Narrow by $100 Billion > AP: 288,000 Jobs Created in April > MSNBC: Economy Seen Expanding at 4.6% > AP: Unemployment Rate Falls to 5.6% > UPI: State Tax Receipts Surprisingly Strong > NYT: Jobs Data Shows Strong Econ Growth > Dollar Gains on US Unemployment Data > BLS: Employment Situation > Bloomberg: Economy Grew at a 4.2% > Reuters: Jobless Claims Hit 2000 Low > AP: US Jobless Claims Drop by 9,000 >as Economy Shows Improvement > Reuters: $ Hits Near Five-Month High vs Euro > RTE: Beige Book Bright on US Economy > RTE: Fed Keeps US Rates at 1958 Low > Unemployment Hits 17-Month Low > PD: Greenspan: Economy Expanding > DJ: Dollar Jumps on Hawkish Comments > Reuters: Treasuries Bounce, >Federal Reserve Calm on Inflation > CNN: Consumer Confidence Up What on earth is it that makes people so bitter about GWB? Like I said before, the left is imploding. It is truely pathetic. I almost feel sorry for those in the left. We still have room for those that want to make the jump from the dark side of the force.
Well there is nothing wrong with dreaming of being rich (depends on what you define as "rich" I guess). What is wrong is the statement is flawed. Ferret would like us to think that the rich only pay 15%, but then says I dream of being rich and paying 50%. I'm not sure where he was going with that contradiction. Remember though, there is a difference between, "rich" and "wealthy". I'd love to be "wealthy". I'm already "rich" though. Got a great kid, great wife, decent home and family. What else do you really need? This is where dems are blown out of the water. When they see a black that is a Republican, they can't figure it out. When they see a Mexican that is a Republican, they can't figure it out. When they see a guy that does not make millions is a Republican, they can't figure it out. They are all under the false impression that we are the ones with the money. Nothing could be further from the truth. We're the ones that wants the government to mind it's own business, wants the government to use less of our money, and likes the fact that we can actually think for ourselves. We don't need a union, or liberal press to do our thinking and re-writting of history for us.
Well can please post some examples of how any of those taxes have changed between clinton to bush? No I am not under that impression at all Yeah there are lots of poor repulicans, mostly bible thumpers, other delusional types. No, poor republicans don't make a lot sense to me, unless they are bible people, becasue for the most part the republican agenda favors the well off. I mean if you make less $20,000 and you are republican , and you are not a born again christian, then you are retarded. The republican party of today repersents none of those qualities, they spend more , invade privacy more, supports laws to restrict personal life more Please list some instances of any of those qualities? Any instances where the present administration has decreased overall spending, protected privacy etc. I would be interested to hear them. I guess there is nothing wrong with it other then its sort of delusional.
I am a poor Republican, although I am the European version of a Rep. And I'm a normal person and like many others I at least want a chance of getting what I deserve if I work hard. That's why I'm totally against communism and socialism. I want to earn as much as I work. Libs tend to refer to rich people as thieves, just because they are rich. Which is funny because many of those outlaws that they support become rich, and that partially due to the protective regime they would like to develop even further. Taxes are a way of legally stealing money from the people, not wrong, but I'm sure there's a way of improving things. There are idiots among any party supporters, but a true Republican just wants what he deserves, and nobody to tell him what to do with that money. That's freedom too...
UCA---you are not a Republican. You are a libertarian and just dont know it-- Taxes are not a legal way of stealing money money either...at the very least they are required to provide law and order and defense. It says your location is Boston---as in Mass? or in the South---
Want to come over for a cuppa? I am not eligible to vote, but I will, and it'll be Republican, do you mind? Law and order and defense, and health care in most other countries, and education, etc. But as I said, ideally, there should be no taxes at all. That's what I mean, after all it's somebody taking money from you. How? I don't know yet, but one day, maybe, it'll happen.
UCA I hate taxes as much as the next person, but be realistic the only place you're going to find that is possibly here... Defense alone = taxes, police to go after all the social non violent crimes cause more taxes than social programs in themselves... So lets see you put your money where your mouth is, if you want no taxes lets ban the military 'i personally don't agree' and lets also stop arresting drug users, prostitutes, and every other social non violent crime..... Just for starters............
Just for starters put your mind where your eyes are and read better! I said that a country with no taxes would be an ideal country! And maybe in the future (can you say no even if you want to?), some time, the society willbe able to do without taxes. After all the US are already basically not taxing for health care, basically... Example: Let's say enough people in a country voluntarily decide to raise enough money for funding public expenses, that money would NOT be TAX money. I know that can't happen anyway at present, but it's an alternative, although, I repeat, highly unlikely at present in the US. But who knows in the future and maybe elsewhere (some tiny countries already manage to do without taxing their own citizens, more or less, so it's NOT out of the world). I bet there are other ways to, some not even thought of yet, but society has proved that what is obvious today, won't be tomorrow, that's what history teaches us or whoever cares to have a look back in time... Understood my point? I hope so.
UCA,,,,you totally missed my point... I see you bitch and moan about spending money in certain areas, yet you have no problem spending money where the vast majority of that tax money is going...2 of the biggest items the military and police force aka war on drugs in the US... If you honestly are against taxes that bad, I would have thought you'd be for reducing these items, especially the failing war on drugs..Guess I was wrong... This IMO makes you argument of waaaa, waaaa, lets not help any citizen out, it's my money very disturbing to say the least.....