Who said it's bad news? Care to respond even once to the 6 months of non fighting by a certain Iraqi leader, or the fact that the insurgents simply fade away until the surge is over? You have yet that I read decided to even respond to that. What a joke
My last post, before you started the victim role remains unchallenged. I corrected a good deal of your dishonesty in it. Of course, you could always try to say dishonest things about me personally instead. Have you considered that option? It would be easier than challenging my last post.
No actually your last post was nothing but crap yet again, spewing the same old crap over and over, bypassing anything and everything that mattered and trying to hit anything trivial you could. Victim roll, oh so it's victim roll to call you what you are? A dishonest liar who is so set in his ways he can not even see he's lying even though everyone around him can? Seriously get some help.. There was nothing to 'challenge' as it was crap, pure and utter crap. the same sewage as always
Is it? Or isn't it bad news? Goes against your argument. Disappointment? Where are they fading? I don't believe you could be any less disappointed. On top of it, you continue to prove my point. Hey, have you tried the "but, but, but GTech calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a terrorist" line yet? Come on boy, you know you love that one! Dishonest. A joke. Boo hoo, the surge is working! http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/spectrum/index.php?ntid=246854&ntpid=1 OMG, the surge is working! Quick, someone get the box of tissues out! Troop surge in Iraq working, airmen say http://www.yorknewstimes.com/stories/100407/editorial_iraq.shtml Success? In Iraq? OMG, the sky is falling! I see a guest lurking Still waiting, grim. You could be a man, and admit that I did no such thing. Of course, you'd make a liar out of AGS and earlpearl, but then they already know it. Man enough to find the post in this thread? I won't belittle you or gloat at you for setting the record straight. Hmm, two guests lurking. Strategizing. How can we attack GTech to gain sympathy while avoiding some of the dishonest things we've posted? Decisions, decisions
I was sleeping myself, sleeping soundly You are the dishonest one Gtech, for you to even call someone dishonest is a joke of the highest level. No you could be a man and reread what I posted, where I quote what you said and explain why I took it as being called UnAmerican, nope Gtech makes it his own way. This is what I mean, you are so dishonest, so twisting there is simply no reason to have any discussion with someone like you. It doesn't take me time to know how to defeat your lame and weak attempts by the way. Do you just love making shit up? Until you start answering things that you continue to avoid there is no point as all you do is avoid what matters to try to pimp the 'surge is working'. I am not disappointed, I simply am not naive enough to say it's the end all How about that 6 months of no fighting by a certain Iraqi leader? How about the fact it's common for insurgents to disappear until the heat is over? To complicated to answer anything other than the surge is working in a few copy and pastes? You can not and refuse to answer anything, all you do is spew crap over and over. Boy, please I'm more man then you will EVER be. Disappointed, there you go again making up Gtech logic, Gtech facts, Gtech crap. Prove your point that all you can do is copy and paste, answer no real questions, yep real good points. The surge is working, yep because one month the deaths went down, another 2 months the death count remained about the same and according to some reports went up 'something you failed to respond to' yep because when facts don't go your way you don't like or acknowledge them BTW I know the above you will try to attack because I state one month, here is the Gtech way to fight. Instead of going after the actual issue, try to take any possible way to pick apart how something was worded. Even if you know the intent don't go after the case at hand go after how things were posted. I do not specifically state deaths went down, stay the same/increase then down again to give you your opening. I know how you work Gtech, that's pretty much all you have. Such as my post about not responding to the guy, another reason I didn't bother responding to your spew from before. Above is what you state, I stated: You bolded for effect, now let me hold your hand so you can comprehend and not make up your own little story. I tried to read them, I was #1 in a rush so I was skimming. You do know skimming don't you? I was quickly skimming over posts. His posts were broken english from what I remember, they were not very easy to read/comprehend while skimming. I was in a rush both moving from my old house to my new house and also taking 2 hours out for the gym. I checked in when I came back to my new house to skim, others had already chimed in, I noticed the part about the Webmaster and had enough time to respond to that. I was in a rush, I was skimming, but yeah Gtech lets try to twist something into something it is not. Do you see what you do? You are totally dishonest, you do not care about facts or the subject at hand, you try very hard to make quotes by bolding parts and making them totally different than their meaning. Instead of asking for clarification you simply try to attack. The ego of a internet warrior is what you have, pretty sad really. You are dishonest Gtech, I'm actually shocked there isnt' a pic of you in the dictionary under it. You do call pretty much anyone not on your side a terrorist supporter, everyone here knows that. But keep telling yourself the lies you believe, the more you tell them to yourself the more you believe them. You continuing to try to claim I am disappointed is pretty much the same way you call people terrorist supporters. You make the shit up, maybe you don't even know you're doing it? I never said I was disappointed, you on the other hand continue to say I am. But yeah that's not 'dishonest' where is that bridge for sale btw? I don't mind losing in a debate, this however is not losing, not even close, it's someone who can't answer simple questions, takes dishonesty to an all new level, pesonal attacks, and more. You simply need medical and professional help. Please get some. Stop the crap, start actually answering, start actually being honest and I'd gladly answer and discuss. Spewed crap is all you do though, what's the point? Even when proven wrong you twist, dodge and make shit up.
she actually thinks its not...this is just her trying to ride the fence so she can appeal to more people as she seeks her coronation.
Grim: It does get tiring doesn't it. And the posts in P&R turn stupid, don't they. Here is the problem that I see. After 4.5 years of fighting in Iraq, and after hearing from the administration or its mouthpiece supporters a constant 4.5 year stream of endless combinations of the following: Optimism Mean spirited attacks on the character or patriotism of anyone who disagrees with the endless stream of optimism that has not been matched with reality. People, particularly Americans, and other Westerners have developed deep doubts with regard to the statements from the Administration or its mouthpieces. During September when Petraous and Crocker testified there were a couple of themes that came out of their reports: 1. They saw progress in some regards to certain aspects of the "surge" 2. They acknowledged no or little progress with regard to the political elements that the surge was supposed to enhance. 3. They saw different political progress, specifically in the outlying territories where local actions saw both a form of "alliance" with American troops and a successful targeting of insurgent Sunni/Al-Queda groups. #3 was the utter surprise consequence of the initial elements of the "surge". It is potentially risky, dangerous, is essentially not supported by the Iraqi/Shiite dominated government. It further arms existing Sunni's who at one time probably shot at and killed Americans. Yet it was having a positive impact with regard to current American efforts. It has been the surprise short term outcome of the surge. Nobody predicted it. 4. VERY IMPORTANT. Crocker and Petraeous said that it would continue to take a long time to judge the results. So when the Bush mouthpieces and ardent supporters take an effort to highlight the good news from the "surge"....in my mind that is well and good. It turns bad and sour when the effort to take short term good news is accompanied by the following: Anyone who doesn't agree that the good news is "the end all and be all of good news" is labeled as a liar, or traiter, or terrorist lover. What a crock of cr@p. People with a brain get tired of that approach. Recall, at the start of the war in Iraq in 2003 some of the strongest claims of the Bush administration about the progress of the war were the following: 1. It will end quickly 2. It will cost $50 billion dollars. 3. Iraqi oil flow will pay for most of the reconstruction of the nation And then on Memorial Day 2005, on national television Dick Cheney said something like....."the insurgency is in its last throes". Meanwhile, all during those years people who didn't agree with the latest claim from the Administration or its mouthpieces were branded terrorist supporters, liars, defeatits etc. A pretty normal person gets sick and tired of the name calling that is far out of line with the commentary. Weigh the actions and the reactions: Actions: I don't believe this. I disagree Reactions: you are a terrorist supporter you are a traitor you are a defeatist The reactions are way out of line with the actions. After 4.5 years it is repetitive, it is tiresome and it has no value. Now as it regards the progress of the "surge" I see the following on the short term, subject to far longer term situations which are totally unpredictable. 1. The situation in Anbar and Diyala wherein tribal leaders have allied themselves with Americans against insurgent/sunni/outsider/Al-Queda types/fundametalists. Current situation -> Good. Long term outcome -> Very unknown. We are arming native tribes who probably were killing and shooting at Americans earlier during the war. One interesting description of these tribal leaders as has been made by American troops in the field is as follows: They still hate us. They hate us less than the insurgents/Al-Queda/types and they hate us less than the Shiites and Iranians. So if that is the "status" of the situation, as experts like Petraeous and Crocker acknowledge it is clearly way to early to claim that this is the ultimate good news. 2. Decrease in American and Iraqi deaths over the last few months relative to the previous months. Good in relative terms. No deaths would be great. Lots of deaths would be worse. But it is all relative. As you noted Al-Sadr Shiites have "called off" fighting Americans for about 6 months. Why? I don't know. It could have many reasons including the following: Increased American military presense from the "surge" There is a very real and active battle going on in South Iraq between Shiite sects that are fighting and killing one another for power. We get little news about this but it is extremely active. This same group, the Ad-Sadr ists decided to temper their active fighting in and around Baghdad from the moment the "surge" was announced. They may well be sitting out this current period. Who really knows. They are all patient m' f'ers. The sad thing is that I and other Americans agree with GTech and his ilk on some things. GTech knows this. IMO we agree to some degree on some of the following; The danger of Fundamental Islam and Fundamentalist terrorists The danger of Islamic nations that are arming themselves, using surrogate terrorist groups to attack Western, Israeli, and American concerns ie Iraq, Syria, etc. The danger of development of WPM by some of these nations and others, and their ability to spread these weapons to independant terrorist groups. I consider Iran a danger in this regard. The danger of the spread of terrorist knowledge gained in the expansive use of IED's in Iraq and the use of human walking bombs that can access any place, any time and kill innocents anywhere....unless it is massively guarded. I'm sure we agree on other similar concerns that I have mentioned. We disagree on lots. I do not put as much weight on the importance of these issues as he does, I am sure. We disagree on who some of the enemies are. We strongly disagree on characterising people like Kerry and Murtha. But I thoroughly disagree when the Administration mouthpieces, such as GTech, defame any and everyone who doesn't agree with their every comment. I believe that judgements on things like the "surge" are contingent on waiting it out. I do not believe that the Bush speech after the testimony from Petraeous and Crocker that called for a "drawdown" of troops was a result of the "success" of the surge. I think that the announcement of a drawdown was the natural consequence of severe limitations on the number of ground troops that the US has available for Iraq. This was stated in early 2007 by so many military and ex-military commentators. It was preceeded by expansive commentary beforehand by military experts warning that ground troops were "close" to being broken. It is characterised by the extensive number of troops from both the regular military and the Guard or reserves who have had their stays in active service in Iraq or Afghanistan extended over what was initially expected. In political terms it was characterized by the Webb proposal in the Senate that attempted to protect the amount of time that the military had to spend between active duty and time off from active duty. That was the "so-called" anti war/Democratic proposal that gained the most traction, had majority support, including Republican support. It had the initial support from Senator John Warner, former Secretary of the Navy. He voted for it in its initial form. In September he voted against it after heavy lobbying and discussion from the Administration and Pentagon. I think this "clamoring" about the latest "success" is old news. For 4.5 years it is characteristic of mouthpieces that won't brook any form of disagreement. Over 4.5 years the same kind of clamoring and name calling has grown very very old. As people who know lots more than I, and are far more familiar with actual events on the ground and in Iraq, such as Petrayous and Crocker, I think judgement on the "success" of the surge needs to be reevaluated over a far longer period of time.
I don't think so, some Indian dude had like 12 a few weeks ago. But they were all "Pm sent" type posts.
#1 Excellent post. #2 Yes it does get very tiring and stupid. I'd rather discuss this in such a way as 'ok there is some progress' 'now what'. How do we overcome the obvious obstacles, not simply you have to either be it's the end all and working now or 'disappointed' The same people jumping up and down now are the same people who have been wrong the entire prewar build up, the war itself and now the occupation. Yet they want a little good news to be the end all. I would love it if that were the case, that it meant things were finally going to be done with. We could bring our men and women home, Iraq would stabalize. I would love it! To think this way though is madness and extremely naive. Come to think of it, those who think that way again are the same who went with Bush on the Iraq issue blindly. Yeah sounds like such a great logical approach. I enjoyed reading your thought our post. Even if I didnt' agree with it, 'which I do agree with most of it' it's an excellent thought out post, not simply attacking or being partisan. A refreshing change.
I did, it was a lie on your part, and it's dishonest. You're crying like a little girl over something that didn't happen and you aren't even man enough to admit it. I've not made anything up. However, I have pointed out numerous things you have. And they continue to go unanswered. Projectionism seems to be the primary strategy here. If' you'd stop spewing your crap and name calling and come down off the roid rage, we could probably have a decent discussion if you'd actually keep it honest and stop trying to present dishonest assertions to trivialize the success. It seems the more success there is, the more upset you get. More dishonesty which leads to disappointment. It would be much more difficult for me, if you were not proving my point by making dumb statements like that. Really? Who is trying to pick apart the way something was worded in the report, to make it seem less than it is? Such hypocrisy, boy! So now we have a fifth excuse? You were just skimming? LMAO! What you did, was actually make my point for me. Need some WD40 for that tricycle you've backpedaling on? You mean like with reports that show death tolls are down for four months, but then someone who is upset about it tries to take 1 month only and skew the numbers to twist and make then totally different than their meaning? That kind of dishonesty? Heh! One of your continued and dishonest lies. I've challenged you and several others to go back in this thread and find one post. You've failed in doing so. This is a poor defense mechanism on your part to cover up your dishonest by turning me into the villain for something I've not done. I suppose next, I'll have to offer $100 via paypal to anyone that can find a post in this thread where I've said any such thing. It's about the only to flush out dishonest people here anymore. That's good, because you lost a long time ago when you started twisting, distorting and just flat out dishonestly making things up to make the facts appear different. And when that started happening, you took it personal and have been in the attack mode ever since to save face. You might want to do some reflection here. I've answered everything that needed to be answered and then some. What I'm waiting on is for you to go back and answer up to the dishonest points I've noted. The ones that you resort to the name calling over to distract that you've been busted. Your loud mouth whining and wussification doesn't cover those things up. Be a man, own up to your dishonesty, correct the record and we can move on. This is dishonest again, earl. I pointed it out, asked you to find such post in this thread. You ignored such request and continue to repeat it. My how we forget the reality of things after just a year.
I'm not that kind of guy. No surprise that you couldn't address the issues again. I don't care about your name calling and sissy fits. When you took things to a dishonest level and started your attack mode to cover it up...that's what I thrive on Now if you want to be a man, you can go back and point out where I said you were an anti-American or terrorist. I've only asked about a dozen times now and you've failed every time with 'boo hoo, my personal feelings thought you said it, but I can't really find it." Grow a pair, or admit you were wrong.
Little bitch is more like your title ;-) I quoted you and showed exactly why I took it that way, but nope Gtech makes it up as he goes. I will answer anything if you come back to reality, were you ever here? You make things up constantly, such as me being disappointed, I never was. One would need to be on roids in order to have roid rage. Honesty, once you have a shred of it we can have an honest discussion. Not at all, the more dishonest you are the more 'upset' I get. Success is a good thing, making more out of the success then there trully is, is a dangerous thing. Dishonest really? Your response was and I quote. So since the numbers proved your article wrong, or possibly wrong it is not what exactly? That's right you only go with numbers that are on your side, that you can tweak to your side, otherwise they mean nothing. That's the Gtech way of debate. Wow you really get off on this don't you? Playing with your tiny little self posting here I bet. I already said fine take me as being wrong, I explained it was a general statement, I also showed where 'and most will agree' '3' is not much movement, I also posted articles showing the count went up, but yeah those don't count as they do not support your side. Are you serious? Take a breath and think before you post. It is not back peddling, or excuses, it is the truth. I stated what I was doing, the last time was holding your hand to show you, yet even with your hand held you are to much of an asshole. You seriously are a prick you know that? No actually they went down 3 months, then stayed about the same for 2. According to articles/links I posted it went down 3 months then up the next, which came after your article. But who is dishonest here? Wow seriously, get a grip. This 'downward' trend couldn't have anything to do with insurgents vanishing for the time being, or 6 month cease fire, no not at all. The numbers never went down before, or wait did they? How dare we talk that way or bring anything up like that, it's not pro the Surge! 'roll eyes here' This thread is your way of debate? No other threads count? Seriously, wow you like to bring up other threads all the time, when it's done to you though it's not allowed. Good to know. You have called me disappointed multiple times... Actually Gtech instead of discussing what is really going on you've got a hard on to have it be the surge is working, it's the end all of end all. How dare you bring up anything that could curtail people from thinking the surge is not working. Care to answer about the insurgents vanishing until the surge is over? 6 months of no fighting? Ohyeah that's to difficult for you, that doesn't work with the 'surge is working' mantra. I lost, in your little mind/world and only there ;-) Name calling, seriously like you like to do? Not standing up for America, disappointed, lying, dishonest, shall I go on? You have been dishonest over and over, you think and I use that term loosely 'think' you are in the right when in fact you're totally off base, so off base I don't see one person on your side. That's unusual, where are the cheerleaders you have grown to depend on? lol whining that you are closed off from reality? Wussification, umm yeah because you're like debating with a rock? A man and own up, sure I have see as follows, I have multiple times but nope you love to nit pick even when someone gives you something as a win they shouldn't even have to as it can EASILY be proven wrong, ohyeah it was you just chose to ignore it and the numbers that showed you as such.. Wow whatever it's obvious in Gtechs tiny little world being a netwarrior is more important than discussin the actual issue, or what the next step is. I guess I can't blame him being wrong about the build up, the war and the occupation, somethings finally gotta give. ;-) I would hope we could get on with the actual issue and stop this dumb back and forth that does no good, I wont hold my breath though.. Actually I was responding, I had to give you something to digest while I was though. Growing a pair and admitting one was wrong, I'd pay to see you ever admit you're wrong. Even when proven you don't, which is alot I have even in this very thread given you something, but that doesn't stop you from ranting. I never said you called me a terrorist, where did I say this? Talk about dishonesty. For the last time, here is where I took it as being called Anti American and why I took it that way. I forgot though you love to nitpick. It's ok for you to put words in people mouths, to tell them how they feel, but it's not ok for them to take things a certain way. They can only take it EXACTLY as you word it, double standard don't you think? and here That's right it's not ok for someone to take an insult anyway other than the exact word, but it's ok for you to put words onto people such as upset, disappointed, and so forth. I forgot you're above all and have a totally different standard. I'm done with this little idiotic fued, it's simply pointless. I'd hope you'd be mature enough to be as well and get back to the issue at hand, unless of course you can not debate the issue at hand and that's why you love going off course.