All one has to do is do a search on you, d16man, Toopac, lorien, Webmaster and view their threads in this P&R forum. They are virtually identicle. You should be very proud that your little elves respect your authority.
Couldn't find it, AGS? It always boils down to dishonesty for you, doesn't it? Fortunately, no one takes you seriously, so you are not held accountable. Always the suck up.
AGS, you need to give lorien a break. He's been posting really solid stuff and I don't mind debating with him. d16 and I can occasionally reach an accord. No comment on webmaster or toopac, don't interact with them much. But GSpot specifically turns every discussion into partisanship, or some accusation (veiled or slight) of treason, which has become old and boring, if not intellectually insincere.
lol you honestly believe this crap you spew? I unlike you do not jump blindly and follow blindly like you. In your own logic you either dance that the 'surge is working' or you're against it. There is no middle ground to logically look at what is going on, to make sure a mistake is not made. Just rush into it, you either take the it's working side or it's not working. If you take the it's working side you better not say anything against it. Are you fng serious? BTW even back then your cheerleaders didn't agree with you of the 'both ways' only you spewed it, but keep believing it. I guess it's easier than actually debating. Oh it 'could be' so again only a hardcore stance, either for or against? Sorry I don't swing that way, I have my own mind, I do not follow party line unlike you That's all it is, a 'bandwagon' no real proof. But you'd rather put our brave men and womens lives in danger for the 'oh it's working' approach instead of looking at it rationally. That is trully sad. Not at all, you take 3 as going down, on a percentage basis 3 is pretty much dead even, barely budged. You however are so dead set on trying to show something good going on you're willing to act like 3 is a huge deal when sadly it is not. Especially when your own quote shows the previous year during the same time being much less. So the surge is starting to bring us down supposedly, yet we have previously been below these numbers. Where is the proof it's the surge, or that the surge is going to last, or do anything in the long term? Yes it did go down, barely, not enough in my mind to show any real movement 'during the 3 count'. Yet again I already stated it was a generalized statement, hell I even went on to state I was wrong if you took it that way, I then explained where I am coming from but fine take it as I was wrong, I will fng admit it, I already did, but nope you'll keep harping because that '3' is such a huge improvement I am not trying to trivialize anything, you however are trying to make more out of this good news than there is. There is no dishonesty on my part Gtech, I quoted you I took great offense to what you stated, according to you I am not intelligent enough to not stand up for my country, to me that is 'unamerican' not standing up for ones country. You may not see it that way, I however do. Now I'm dishonest even though you stated it, uh huh.. Facts, lol that's something you know nothing about. You twist and dodge so much it's not even a joke, I never did get you to respond to the last thread. You know where you decided to make it be deaths from the war on terror on not 'during' the war on terror. For one I didn't even read his posts to be truthful, I tried and for the most part I didn't get what he was saying. I also was not on for the most part during that time as I was working out and still moving. I checked in from time to time, but yeah I should have chimed in there even when others already were all over it and I wasn't around. Just because I do not chime in doesn't = me agreeing with someone or disagreeing for that matter...
I do believe you take multiple positions on things. That was your operating procedure in the past and here it is again. I know why you do it though, so it's no biggy. This isn't about following anything blindly. This is your assumption. There's not really anything to be for or against. It's a set of articles that clearly demonstrate the surge is working. I stated in the first post there would be people that were upset with the good news. I hadn't planned on it being you. More assumption and dishonesty. I've said no such thing. Is there a reason why you continue to assert that I've said things I haven't? The proof is in the first post. As I pointed out, there will be those disappointed. Who would have thought? So you need to make up your own math to counter the positive? But you are not disappointed? You are upset that I've posted some positive reports, but you are not necessarily disappointed. Or where you not disappointed before you were disappointed? You're really making my case for me. I'm not really trying that hard...you're doing all the work. So you are disappointed the numbers are not more, but not necessarily disappointed at progress? Or, as you note, "supposed" progress, because you are upset that there is something positive, as illustrated just above? So you want to make it seem less positive by skewing the numbers. I just wanted to show the reports. I had no idea they would upset you so much. There is good news. I've corrected your dishonesty about it several times. Apparently it upsets you, but you are not disappointed??? OK No, you did not quote me, despite the fact I made repeated calls to do so. You assumed, you twisted, you distorted. You made a claim that was simply not true. That is dishonest. I still welcome you to quote me saying you are an anti-American. You won't though, because I didn't and you are not honest enough to admit such. But some how you to get a reply to him on page three? Okey dokie
That's his famous attack. You're expected to respond to every post that asserts a position you (might/should/could) disagree with. Regardless of whether you have time to read or understand every post. In GSpot world, a failure to condemn (isn't this ironic) is equivalent to condoning a POV. You just know the man has wore down his living room carpet, pacing back and forth, muttering about the darn Swiss and their neutral stance on politics.
Just like you, gworld, Briant and various n00b identities sing a chorus with Anthony? Too bad that your leader/master Anthony gets his ass banned repeatedly... Do you guys feel orphan?
Yet you never could point out these so called multiple positions. Actually they do not 'clearly show' I have brought up the point that the insurgents simply faded away, such as they did in the past until the surge is over with. I know at least one such leader over there told his followers not to attack for 6 months. This does not show it working, but as temporary bandaid to make it look good, something you and others failed to respond to. This is why I am not jumping on the bandwagon as I can see it very easily could be a false temporary patch and not a solution by any means. Your articles also point to the 'terrorists' when I brought up 'another thing you failed to respond to' as it's well known the terrorists are a tiny, TINY fraction of those we are fighting over there. If anyone is dishonest or makes assumption that would be the guy in your mirror every morning. Anyone who is not on your side on the Iraq issue is a terrorist supporter, or disappointed in any news you see as good if they do not fully support your ideas. The assumption is based off of me being happy deaths are down, but showing why I am not jumping on the bandwagon and you attacking simply because I will not state the surge is 'cough' working. I have stated over and over again why I will not, you however are more conserned about getting the message out it's working then anything else, then the actual truth, or possible dangers to our troops for believing in something that could very well be false. I am not making up my own math, 3 isn't a very big number and makes it be almost equal to the month before. I am not trying to counter as you put it, I am trying to factually see the picture and not jump onto the pro war side mantra or anti war mantra, something you have no problem with jumping on. The only case you're making is showing the world you do not give a shit but picking and making any possible case no matter how weak it might be for your pro war movement. A simple fact, 3 is barely moving, 3 means next to nothing. If the death count increase by 3 next month I sure hope it doesn't, but if it does I hope you jump up and down and shout the death count is rising I have stated yet again, and given up on the fight to be correct here fine you win on the count. But here is Gtech still trying to hold onto anything, shows you don't have much left BTW I have stated over and over why I do not see it as 4 months, even with your count 3 either way is not a sign of moving up or down, it is in my eyes none movement. One accident could cause that, one attack could easily cause '3' Depending on where you get your figures from though it is wrong, http://icasualties.org/oif/ here for instance states more died in August than in July 78 and 84, even here though the numbers are to damn close to show any real decline or incline in my eyes. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm Yet another showing more in August than in July, but so close to make any difference. If I were you though I sure would cling to that little movement and say it's on the rise. You take it how you want to, I will continue to take it the way I see it. Yet again with the trying to put words into my mouth, I am not disappointed in the least, I am not upset of any progress either, I am careful to not jump onto something that could be a false situation. Is it trully that difficult to understand? Do you need your hand held? Or are you incapable of seeing what people state w/o putting your own words into them, you trully show yourself as an 'you're either with me or against me' type of guy. I have shown over and over why I am not willing to jump the gun and say it's working, especially not for the long term, but yeah stay away from that point, you have no case there. Attack anything and everything but the actual issue at hand, keep to the talking points, I guess whatever works for you. lol wow this is seriously the best you can do? Yet you call me dishonest? Ok then. After this response it's obvious I should give you no more attention, it's like feeding a troll. I am not upset in the least and I have skewed no numbers. I have shown the numbers for what they are, the numbers you posted. 3 isn't a big difference, that is not skewing that is being factual. But ohyeah I forgot you hate facts when they do not match your agenda, I have to remember that. Yes good news that less have died, that does not = anything working in the long term now does it? That does not = the insurgents not coming back when the surge goes down now does it? That does not = anything in reality besides the death toll being down temporarily. I hope like hell the death toll continues to go down, I hope it does work, it simply is to soon to tell. It is dangerous IMHO to jump on the bandwagon here, but I know that wont stop you. You trully have to stop with the labeling crap, 'upset' 'disappoint' when someone simply wishes to be careful, but is happy for any progress. I truthfully would be on your side here, simply wanted a few things answered that I have brought up, could have even made me feel better about it and who knows put more faith into it 'working' but instead of answering those questions you go on a rampage with no addition then a few numbers and a report on the small fraction of terrorists. Wow, seriously wow. You have called pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you on here AntiAmerican in one form or another, possibly not the exact words but the same meaning. Terorrist supporter is one of your specialties Yes I did quote you and showed you why I took it that way, but yeah I'm dishonest Yes because correcting someone on what nationality someone is takes almost as much time as trying to line by line debate someone who is posting huge posts on the war in Iraq. Point taken, never respond at all otherwise Gtech will take that as you had 2 seconds you might as well had a 1/2 hour.
since you brought me into this, I would also like to see the posts...or as Gtech has said, can you not do that? Are you to busy sucking up to AmadenaJIHAD?
Grim: I agree with you. Its too early to judge the effects of the "surge". Even worse, imho, is the taking of any news that could be construed as "good" and over emphasizing its importance to the detriment of balanced news. In fact, during Petraeous' and Crocker's testimony, even as they painted a picture that they deemed successful to some degree to date, they additionally cautioned all those statements by additional statements saying that future conditions and progress are unknown, dangerous, etc. etc. They did that regularly. Their testimony was anything but black and white. Additionally, it is inappropriate, and dangerous on a different level, when anyone who doesn't agree with GTech's assertions about this so called "success" are then labeled terrorist supporters....blah blah blah.
Open a few windows, then expand yours, GTechs, loriens or any other members of the crazy gangs posts here in P&R and look at them, the similarity is astonishing. You all sound the same as each other.
You did it for me. You took a bunch of your quotes, then bolded one of each of the positions, but also left in the others. It's a weak defense strategy on your part, but I've pointed this out before. Actually, it very clearly shows the death tolls are down and even more so during a religious month. You can try, but you simply cannot turn it into bad news. Not entirely sure how you can sit and claim the article I posted talks about a tiny, tiny fraction. That's most likely a personal opinion, as it doesn't mesh with the article. http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/ss_iraq_09_30.asp I reject your opinion as it has no foundation. It's a defense mechanism on your part to cover up your poor performance. I've neither suggest nor said anything of you. There are people here who openly admit to supporting terrorists. In fact, some even put their favorite terrorist in as their avatar. If those people are ashamed of supporting terrorists, they should stop. It wasn't a comparison over one month. It was a comparison over four months. You simply cherry picked the lowest of the drop to make a skewed point. Isn't it ironic that you claim you are not disappointed, but sought to take the report out of context of four months, to focus on the lowest number? Not sure about where you come from, but where I come from, one might consider that a sign of disappointment. You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. Non responsive. Has nothing to do with the issue or the articles I posted. You are welcome to let your emotions and personal agenda dictate how you see reality. That wouldn't be a sign of disappointment, would it? Not disappointed that more are not killed...I would never suggest that. Disappointment that the numbers are coming down, thereby indicating some success for a change, which seems to upset some. I won't mention any names, though You seem to have no problem jumping onto it when numbers are high. In fact, you've touted them several times here. Shouldn't it work both ways? But you are willing to say it's not working? I've pointed out a number of instances where your positions were dishonest. Perhaps the best thing to do is to think, or reference the sources first, before making unverified claims. Actually you did skew the numbers. The report is over four months. In an effort to trivialize it, you simply took the lowest number between two of those months to trivialize them. That's not an accusation, that's just purely an observation of what you did. Neither I nor the articles I presented used any of these qualifiers as a measure of performance or success. The qualifier is pure and simple; over a four month period of time, during the exact same time as the surge is taking place, death tolls have gone down. Additionally, they are substantially lower during the month of ramadan than any previous years. The qualifiers you present are you own. Once again, in an effort to trivialize the success. Only you can answer to why you claim not to be disappointed, but continue to skew numbers and insert qualifiers to paint a picture different than the success it is. I read a lot of red herrings, several incorrect statements and a lot of challenging, but didn't see many, if any, questions. Sometimes people believe they are questioning, when in fact, they are making accusations. I really shouldn't respond to this, because it's a deflection of the issue and points out your insecurity in debate. It's also dishonest, but then honesty clearly isn't high on your priority list. I did not call you, or anyone else in this thread anti-American. I have never called you anti-American. This is a shield on your part. There are quite a few people here who make no attempt to hide they are anti-American. There are also people here who openly admit to admiring and supporting terrorists. However, that does not apply to you. Those people that hold those views seem quite proud of them. Let's review this. This is a good example of the dishonesty I continue to point out. At first, you offered three positions on this particular observation: So, we've gone from "truthfully didn't read them," to "I didn't get what he was saying," to "I was not not on for the most part during that time," to "I wasn't around." Then when I point out that you did apparently read it, as you also took the time to respond, during the time which you were not around, you go on to take a defensive position with: What more can I say? It simply doesn't add up. earl, no one (that I'm aware of) has tried to overemphasize anything, other than the fact that good news is bad news. I simply posted the articles. I also warned that it would upset some. It has; I was correct. I didn't plan on it being you guys, but somehow I'm not surprised. It's a shame you resort to dishonesty here. As with AGS, and GRIM, I challenge any of you to find one post in this thread where I have labeled anyone a terrorist supporter. We both know that is not true. We both know there are some here who really are terrorist supporters. Pretty shameful, earl.
Wow seriously Gtech not even worth debating is what you are. Get a clue and come back 80% of bombings is not 80% of who we are fighting, our own military has been saying the 'terrorists' is a very, very small percentage for years, but yeah make up your own facts. I am done with you as you honestly are not worthy of trying to have a debate or discussion with, you are so closed off even when proven wrong 'which is alot and often' you still twist and dodge. Trully pathetic.
I did not say 80% of bombings means 80% of who we are fighting. This is dishonest. I accept your disclosure that you are not willing to debate or be honest in doing so. As such, you are probably better off calling it quits. It's kind of hard to debate honestly, when you continue to prove that honesty is not a criteria for debate. Correcting your dishonesty is time consuming, so it works just fine for me as well. Touche.
That is why he has nearly 14,000 posts mate. All daily rhetoric on a very large scale. It will be very interesting to see GTech's stance beginning of 2009 when a Democrat is President, my bet is that his posts will be exactly the same: Labeling anyone that is against the US Administration and the BS war a terrorist supporter. Of course he will be against Hillary as she is (ostensibly) a Democrat and I am sure that his daily post count will rise exponentially because of that. At least GTech and I will agree on one thing, and that is that Hillary will be bad bad news. She might even be more of a disaster than W Bush which would be disasterous for the entire world.
LOL GTECH, when it comes to dishonesty you take the cake When you wake up and stop lying through your teeth, stop being dishonest and unwilling to see fact, then I will gladly discuss with you again. I wont be holding my breath though. Calling it quits? yeah because I would have a more intelligent conversation with my fireplace
Heh, trying to save face now. Your dishonesty is not fact. As such, I've corrected you numerous times, for which you've had no response to, other than to play a victim role to seek approval from others. Of course, AGS will suck up to just about anyone, so I won't fault you for that one. The least you could do is get some breath mints. Given your dishonest performance here, I'd tend to agree that something filled with soot would be more suitable for you. http://www.dailymail.com/story/Opinion/2007100314/The-surge-is-working-in-Iraq/
In your own little world Gtech you have corrected me YOUR own little world, where only you sees it as you believe anything you think Saving face? Hardly, but I like how you declare everything and anything, what Gtech thinks is how it is Dishonesty is you Gtech, you seriously believe you are honest? I mean come on, reread your posts, man you are delusional. Seriously get some medical help if you believe you are being honest. I am 100% serious, you are simply insane to say the least. I have proven you wrong over and over Gtech, in which case you simply try to harp on trivial little things you make up. Or in the other thread as you're so good at simply avoid You do that alot don't you.. Dishonest performance, uh huh. Yeah I'd be better to be like you and only take articles that go with my point of view, only see numbers the way I see fit, yeah that is so 'honest' Seriously Gtech, get some medical help.. Nice new post, twisting again I see. Wow you are a trip. 50 percent is not 50 percent less troops from the month before, but yeah bring up the 3, real convenient. Talk about a twist, but yeah you're so honest. Got a bridge to sell while you're at it?