Surge in Iraq is Working

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by GTech, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #201
    http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/20/petreaus-911-hearing/
    Thanks. One shouldn't expect more when using olbermann as a source. ;)
     
    lorien1973, Oct 9, 2007 IP
  2. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #202
    Doesn't Olberman appeal to fringe liberals?

    Can't imagine why someone who pretends to be a republican would be in bed with olberman....of all people. 2+2 just doesn't seem to equal 4 anymore.
     
    GTech, Oct 9, 2007 IP
  3. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #203
    Olbermann doesn't appeal to anyone.
     
    lorien1973, Oct 9, 2007 IP
  4. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #204
    LOL! It's like being in a transvestite bar and no one took the time to tell ya otherwise :D
     
    GTech, Oct 9, 2007 IP
  5. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    262
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #205
    I watch all of the MSM media on Youtube through the CSPANJunkiedotorg channel. And yes, Olbermann is on there.
     
    guerilla, Oct 9, 2007 IP
  6. SBR Richard

    SBR Richard Peon

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #206
    how is it working?

    you increase troops, people go to ground

    i'd say it's waaay to early to say it's working.. and now they have a date of when the surge ends

    lol
     
    SBR Richard, Oct 10, 2007 IP
  7. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,584
    Likes Received:
    150
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    155
    #207
    At this point I'd be willing to say that the surge is working in certain areas including the following:

    1. Al-Queda in Iraq forces are diminished and hurting
    2. Levels of attacks on American soldiers have diminished in the North and Sunni areas.


    Having said that here are some caveats:

    1. We have little to no control over underground hidden elements that hate Americans. At any time they can surface and resurface with deadly force and effectiveness. The long history of violence and attacks in the Middle East is punctuated by fighting followed by quiet periods followed by fighting (see the 60 year history of Israel).

    2. Ultimately we have given more arms to Sunni's in the North. As I understand it they still hate occupying Americans; they only hate Americans less than they grew to hate fundamentalist Islamics and the Shiites and Iranians. I suppose we are buying time with this element of Iraq. If they grow unhappy with Americans again, they are simply better armed.

    3. The Shiite majority has mostly not been addressed by the American military "surge". The press that reaches America, largely ignores activity in Southern Iraq. There is a signigicant civil war among Shiite sects fighting for power. Just the other day, Americans attacked a Al-Sadr group in Baghdad, reportedly killing close to 50. Immediately thereafter, Al Sadr, who essentially had his followers put down their weapons, and not confront Americans from when the surge was first announced in early 2007 (and before the build up of troops) threatened to have his followers again confront Americans. This is probably the largest or 2nd largest militia element in Iraq. Essentially, since the "surge" started, the largest anti-American group has not been "engaged" till the past day or so.

    There is no control over this element.

    3. There has been no progress in the Iraqi central government toward goals for settling issues between shiites, kurds, and sunnis. Essentially none. A former member of the Iraqi UN delegation, and essentially the fellow who wrote much of the current Iraqi constitution, left his UN post and complained about the failure of a central govt to evolve and deal with problems toward creating a central government.

    But IMHO at this point, there has been success to date at quelling Al-Queda in Iraq elements in conjunction with Sunni tribesmen who grew to hate the fundamentalists more than the Americans.

    What next?
     
    earlpearl, Oct 22, 2007 IP
  8. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

    Messages:
    23,694
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    440
    #208
    Not only is it working, but yesterday the numbers on Civilian deaths were released.. Apparently the violence/deaths are down as high as 75%.. One can only hope congress will continue to fund the surge..
     
    Mia, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  9. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #209
    Lets continue to hope, whatever is bringing down the death counts continue to happen. If it's the surge, if it's negotiations, if it's simply blind luck.

    I'm sure the surge itself has helped here, throughout the war one of the main causes of violence to come back according to our own military was that we did not maintain control over cities, strongholds, etc. This allowed the insurgents to regroup, defeating them and moving out was a mistake, we continued to make these mistakes over and over. 'This is from what current and X military leaders have stated, and is pretty common knowledge I'd think'

    Anyways I have read some articles lately that are stating that the surge 'as it's only temporary' and we can not/will not have a surge going forever, was supposed to help the Iraqi government get some work done. That was the point behind it, not to 'win' yet according to our own military that is not being done, making the surge worthless 'in the long term, and for the point of it'.

    I know 'someone' will attack now, saying I'm saying the surge is not working, and I'm disappointed it's working. That however is not the case, simply stating what I have read/heard.

    Decreased death counts are great, I still don't see any long term effects.

    I however am not giving up hope that it will work, I want just as much as anyone for the war to end, less of our brave and woman to die, and for them to come home where they belong.
     
    GRIM, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  10. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #210
    Yep, it's continued to work. It's really time to set aside the disappointment that some expressed and embrace it. I can't help but think democrats like harry reid, who proclaimed defeat for our country earlier this year, and murtha, who betrayed Marines and is still in delusion, are upset at the success.

    Our men and women did a remarkable job. Some tried to give the success to the terrorists, by suggesting they simply laid low for a while, but our soldiers deserve some credit for a change.
     
    GTech, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  11. grab my heat

    grab my heat Banned

    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    19
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #211
    Glad the surge in Iraq is working but recent news reports say the Taliban have a 54% control of Afghanistan, dosen't look like anything is working over there.
     
    grab my heat, Nov 23, 2007 IP