Study: 41 million in U.S. can't afford basics

What was the purpose of this post? Are you on some kind of self discovery journey?

 

Wil is not the only one who claims to be "preparing to take time off from this thread"

~~~

Hey Wil, you missed something

1. I haven't "surrendered" any freedoms Wil. Anti American, anti-freedom traitors (in DC.) have taken them away.
2. You seem to talk like a dedicated Neo-con believer.
3. Please, enjoy the rest of your life, and perhaps someday re-evaluate your core positions.

Tesla does a great job of this in post #293

• Have you looked them over Wil?
• How many of them concern you??
• I might never see your reply, but the rest of the world Wil

 

That list doesn't really list any rights that have been taken away.

Free speech never gave you the right to shoot your mouth of anywhere and anytime you liked. The free speech zones allow people to safetly spout off and the rest of us the freedom to avoid them.

The wiretaps only affect people who are talking to those outside the country. Those outside out country have no right to privacy from our government.

We already have a mandatory id: your social security number which has been around for a lot longer than 7 years. So Real ID is not an issue in that regard either.

The patriot act doesn't allow the government to arrest citizens without due process. It gives the government greater flexibility when dealing with noncitizens who don't have the same rights as citizens anyway.

 

Not True. Go read about Jose Padilla:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(prisoner)

If Bush just happened to declare you an enemy combatant tomorrow, you could be detained and taken to prison without due process....under the Patriot Act.

Incorrect. The government admits on Fox news that they can spy on you, and general Hayden was grilled about NSA wiretapping of Americans:http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2006/260106generalhayden.htm

Listen carefully to the conversation in the link above. Not once does General Hayden say that the NSA only spies on those talking to people outside the country, so I don't know where you got this idea. I've heard this argument before, and the video above kills it. The video above makes it pretty clear that the spying was on domestic calls also.

If we already have a mandatory ID, why is the government pushing the REAL ID Act?

Hey Kalvin, you didn't mention anything about the NAU or UN Heritage sites.......

Oh yeah............so when you protest a candidate who is coming to town, you have to be three miles away in a "free speech zone," but if you support the candidate, you can be right outside the building when they show up...........sounds like freedom to me, and that is exactly what is happening.

You failed to mention most of what I talked about. You didn't have anything to say about NAU, Presidential Directive 51, or Vets losing their gun rights. What do you say about those? What do you say about REX 84, the U.S. government plan to put Americans in concentration camps:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

 

Well, I would like to know why you are afraid of Islamic nations that don't have a navy, air force, nuclear power or space program, particularly when we have several thousand nuclear weapons.

I think it's a little disingenuous to claim that they are this massive threat and we will be enslaved, when reasonably, they couldn't even reach America in force by air or sea, let alone touch us with a missle attack.

Is this the great neocon fear? People will come here on commercial airlines and subjugate 300 million armed to the teeth Americans?

Are you voting for Rudy?

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the funniest post of today............

 

Jose Padilla is a terrible example to support your cause.

He was convicted for everything the government accused him of.

The question is: would that terrorist have been found and convicted if not for the Patriot Act?

Maybe you should try to find someone who was wrongly confined under the Patriot Act.

Rex 84 has never been fully implemented and is 20 years old so how exactly have your rights been affected by it? The point of it is to manage the country in the event of something like the civil war happening again. If citizens are fighting against the government en masse then no duh the government is going to protect itself and its citizens. Or do you have a right to attack the government unopposed that we don't know about?

If 10,000 people rushed the captial armed with guns blazing, do you really think the government has time to arrest and process each and every one of them? No. It's going to toss them all into a confinment and get around to processing them when it can. I don't care to have 10,000 assholes force their will onto millions of citizens who happen to like their government.

Apparently you feel that you as a citizen have a right to declare war on the government and think you're then excempt from being treated as a war criminal.

Apparently you feel that free speech gives you the right to disrupt the speech of others. Typical. Again you're demonstrating that free speech zones protect the rights of people, not take them away.

Because the SSN is insecure and we need a secure form of ID to protect your identity. Identity theft is a huge problem in this country and nothing is more valuable than your identity. If someone steals your SSN you're screwed. If someone stole your Real ID, it would be useless to them.

What right did I have to that land? Can a foreigner not own land in the US? The US has land in other countries. So again, what does that have to do with you personally? Did you own that land and they took it from you?

 

He was not even charged with the crime that he was arrested for, let alone be convicted of it. He was convicted of conspiracy, and giving material support to terrorists. This is far from "dirty bomb" or "planning attack" against USA that government was claiming as an excuse to remove the constitutional guarantees that protects American citizens.

 

The Constitution says that Americans get due process, even if they are later found to be guilty or innocent. Jose Padilla is an American citizen. He didn't get due process. That means his rights were violated. Its pretty cut and dried...

I strongly advise you to go read some books on American history, especially the period after the Revolutionary War. First off, there is a reason we have a SECOND AMENDMENT. The founding fathers put it in the Constitution because, they understand history, something that you don't appear to understand.

The Second Amendment exists because, in the event the U.S. is invaded by an outside force, or a dictator rises to power, millions of Americans with guns can rise up and fight back........

Take a real hard look at countries where citizens can't own guns. China is one good example. Mexico is another. When only the military and cops have guns, and the citizens don't, the country is in serious trouble. Did you know that over 200 million people died in the 20th century because of government?

Go read about the Red Terror, the Nazis, Mao, and Khmer Rouge. They all had one thing in common: The citizens didn't have the means to stand up and fight back, and they got butchered. Thats why in America we have a second amendment.

The Founding Fathers said we should fight the government if they get out of line, and try to enslave us or take away our freedoms.

I bet if George W. Bush declared Martial Law tomorrow, and told Americans to turn in their guns and report to the nearest detention facility, you would be the first one to report for duty.......

Wrong again. If the Real ID act is passed, and someone makes a fake ID with your name on it, you become a victim of identity theft:http://www.privacyrights.org/ar/real_id_act.htm

Hackers and con men are really smart guys...........and there is nothing like a national ID card which can be duplicated and used to steal someones identity.........the social security number is more secure than the National ID card.

 

Here are some quotes from Thomas Jefferson:

No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands].

* Draft Constitution for Virginia (June 1776) This quote often appears with the parethetical omitted and with the spurious extension, "The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government.


I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.

* Letter to James Madison (January 30, 1787); referring to Shays' Rebellion Lipscomb & Bergh ed. 6:65


Thomas Jefferson makes it crystal clear that it is the duty of Americans to rise up and fight the government in the event the Constitution, and thus our freedoms, is threatened. I suggest you go research Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers, and learn how America is supposed to be...........

The founding fathers never intended for Americans to be weak, spineless cowards who bow down to everything the government does. When people are weak and spineless, then tend to end up becoming victims of tyranny.

Here is a listing of things you might want to read:

Red Terror:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

Khmer Rouge:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

Nazis:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis

Mao(Great Leap Forward):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

You were probably educated in a public school like me, so I know you've probably not heard of a lot of this stuff. Its okay, because I had to begin studying independently to learn these things. The public schools in America is a joke, and only by studying independently did I truly begin to see the world for what it is.

The links above show why you don't bow down to government...............

 

Given the propensity for certain members of this forum to report others, you have to almost wonder how many of us have been reported to the government for high treason...

 

No, the problems I have with free speech zones are:

1. There simply shouldn't be any. It is the start of the loss of free speech. The government begins by doing small things like free speech zones, but eventually, you lose all free speech.

2. They aren't used fairly. As I said before, if you support candidates, you're allowed to be very close to them, but if you oppose them, your free speech zone is miles away....

Free speech zones allow prominent politicians and others to avoid having to face those who are furious with their policies. When your zone is three miles away, and you never get to even see the person or organization you're protesting against, this makes the protest less effective.

Also, and this should be pretty obvious: free speech zones allow the government to avoid giving press coverage to protesters. If a politician has a bad policy, and people are pissed about it, but they have to protest miles away, and the politician is at an event where tv news crews are filming, this means the general viewers who watch the event won't even know there were protesters.......

Think about that one............

 

I agree, and I think in the future, forums like Digital Point may become a target from the government, that is, if we don't get a candidate in office like Ron Paul, a man who has made it clear that he will not attempt to regulate the net.

You'd think 90% of Digital Point members would vote for him just based on this fact. I mean, since most of us here make money from our online businesses, it would sure suck if the government decided to regulate the Internet, and end net neutrality.

I predict, that if we don't protect our rights, there could come a day and time in the future when the government says: online forums like Digital Point must be shut down, because "terrorists" may be sharing ideas that could allow them to plot attacks.

The statement I put in bold is very important, and I suggest everyone think about it carefully. Suppose the government decided stage a false flag terrorists attack, like a bombing, and after they did, it, they supposedly found "evidence online" from a forum where members of the terrorist group met together and discussed the attack, and used plans and code words to carry it out.

The government would then say that ALL online forums must be shut down, because it allows terrorists to spread ideas.

This is exactly how the government thinks...........you have to understand the mind set of the enemy........

 

Are the rules different for different people?

And nobody was saying anything about the right to bear arms. The constitution doesn't grant you the right to violently overthrow the government without opposition. I don't know where you get this idea that you could amass an army and storm the capital by force and expect a trial by jury for your actions. You'd be lucky if they didn't just shoot you dead which they have every right to do.

Heck, if you as an individual went to the white house to shoot the president, you'd be lucky if they didn't shoot you dead on sight which they have a right to do.

He's a terrorist living on American soil. Show us someone denied due process that wasn't seeking to destroy the country.

Ooooh your ideas are so dangerous... Give me a break. Padilla was actively supporting terrorist organizations. He wasn't just talking. If you were actively speaking with known terrorists groups then yes, you may be rightfully hauled off so the government can find out what you know so they can stop your terrorist friends.

 

Refer to this article on Wiki which talks about free speech zones:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones

Below is a passage from the article with information that shows why we don't need them:

Critics, however, suggest that such zones are "Orwellian",[1][2] and that authorities use them in a heavy-handed manner to censor protesters by putting them literally out of sight of the mass media, hence the public, as well as visiting dignitaries.

Wiki basically says the same thing I said in previous posts.

The Constitution is the highest law in the land. It supersedes the Patriot Act or anything else the government does. It says all American citizens must have due process.

I never said Jose Padilla was innocent. But he needs to be given the rights that all American citizens are given, terrorist or not.............

It doesn't matter if he was actively supporting terrorist organizations.........he is supposed to get due process of law.

Oh....so we're living under Napoleonic law now? We are all guilty until proven innocent? That is exactly what you implied in your last post.

You said the government should haul you off if you're actively speaking with terrorist organizations, even though you haven't actually done anything. Again, the Constitution makes it clear that we are innocent until proven guilty. You have to go to court and stand before a trial and jury, and it must be proven that you actually DID SOMETHING that was in violation of the law, and speaking to terrorist organizations is not a violation of the law, its free speech.

Once you actually carry out an attack, or are caught in the process of getting ready to carry it out, then, and only then can you be arrested.

According to your view, if I'm seen by cops talking to Neo Nazis, I should automatically be arrested for "speaking with terrorists or criminals." This is a violation of everything the country stands for, and sounds like something out of 1984, Brave New World, V For Vendetta, or Equilibrium.

 

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2198914,00.asp

Did we catch 700 more terists in America? If so, I hope Fred Thompson wins the election so he can send them all to GITMO and then nuke'em!

 

yes it does, except you can be removed from private property or if you put someone in danger etc

but you should be free to say what you want in public areas of the country,

thats bullshit, you don't even realize how unamerican what you are saying is which is sort of scary

 

I think Will has trouble explaining why he is so terrified of the crazy muslims, so he is trying to go on some offense instead of answering the questions asked of him.